The UFC/MMA/Etc. Thread

[TN94z]

Machida deserves the shot and I think can beat jones or Henderson. I was surprised by Vera. He did great. I think had he been more aggressive, Vera could have won that fight. Maybe this fight will give him that confidence back

[Kapanda]

Yea, I'm a little apprehensive to say Machida can match Jones. I mean, he beat Bader... Bader is not top competition - not top 5 at the least, by any means. So yeah he looked good, but it's hard to judge from that fight how he would do his second time around with Jones.

Also want to emphasise how awesome Lauzon's submission was. It was so technically impressive... I can't think of better finishes than his was today. I'd put it above Silva's front kick, Hendo's H-bomb on Bisping, or Jones' choke on Machida. It was such a slick finish!

[newtogolf]

Machida's fight style is similar to Silva and to some level JBJ, but against Jones he will have a reach disadvantage.  He's going to have to come up with a tactic that will allow him to counter punch JBJ and still protect himself from getting caught by a counter strike of JBJ on his way out.

Rua is not ready to face JBJ imo, Vera pushed Rua close to his limits and while Vera fought well today he's not even close to the caliber of JBJ in striking power and overall strength.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by TN94z

Machida deserves the shot and I think can beat jones or Henderson. I was surprised by Vera. He did great. I think had he been more aggressive, Vera could have won that fight. Maybe this fight will give him that confidence back

Based on the 4 fighters that had the chance yeah Machida was the most deserving. Vera looked pretty good and probably gave himself a few more fights in the UFC.

I don't think there is anyway possible Machida can beat Jones and I don't see it going any differently than the first fight. JBJ seems to be able to stick to his game plan no matter how the fight is going which is generally the way he wants it to anyway. Plus his reach is a killer for Machida being a counter puncher you still have to cover a lot of distance with JBJ. I will say I give everyone a punchers chance so I wouldn't be shocked to see Henderson beat JBJ or Machida beat JBJ but it would be a long shot.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

Based on the 4 fighters that had the chance yeah Machida was the most deserving. Vera looked pretty good and probably gave himself a few more fights in the UFC.

I don't think there is anyway possible Machida can beat Jones and I don't see it going any differently than the first fight. JBJ seems to be able to stick to his game plan no matter how the fight is going which is generally the way he wants it to anyway. Plus his reach is a killer for Machida being a counter puncher you still have to cover a lot of distance with JBJ. I will say I give everyone a punchers chance so I wouldn't be shocked to see Henderson beat JBJ or Machida beat JBJ but it would be a long shot.

Wouldn't go so far as to say Machida has no chance though. Even in the first fight we saw elements of a true contender. It will easily be the toughest fight Machida ever has - eve tougher than the first fight he had against Jones, because now he knows from experience how devastating Jones is - but he does have a legitimate chance.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Wouldn't go so far as to say Machida has no chance though. Even in the first fight we saw elements of a true contender. It will easily be the toughest fight Machida ever has - eve tougher than the first fight he had against Jones, because now he knows from experience how devastating Jones is - but he does have a legitimate chance.

I'm not saying he has no chance but his chance isn' that good than again that seems to apply to everyone fighting JBJ. I just see Machida having trouble landing anything with JBJ's reach and pressure. Machida likes to kick to score points while waiting for a good counter and he can't throw kicks with JBJ unless he wants to end up on his back eating elbows. The other big thing at least for me is that Machida didn't impress me tonight he beat a slightly over hyped fighter. I like Bader but he's a great wrestler with average striking and for some reason he felt the need to try to land a haymaker. I guess I would have liked to see Machida close the distance instead of sitting back because he will have to try to get inside on JBJ to have a good chance. Again I don't think he has no chance I think he doesn't have a very good chance but it only takes one punch or sloppy move from JBJ... Heck I'm still saying Hendo could land one and win.

[newtogolf]

Bader is not even a top 10 so the win tonight doesn't prove anything for Machida.  Bader should have gone for the take down more to keep Machida from throwing the kicks but he was looking for the 1 punch knockout.  Machida can't depend on JBJ to push the action like Bader did, his camp will make sure JBJ is ready to counter Machida's counter so that Machida always gets the worse of it.  If that doesn't work, he'll take Machida down and ground and pound him as clubchamp said.

[TN94z]

Machida has a very good chance...hell, he chicken legged him the first fight. It was hard for Bader to shoot when there was nothing to shoot for. Bader is a top wrestler...don't you think he would have tried the TD more if he could have? I personally think its all a moot point since Henderson will be the one Machida will be fighting. To beat Jones, you have to pressure him...just like Sonnen did Silva. Henderson will do that. I say Hendo by Ko. If Machida could rock Jones...Hendo can knock his block off

[newtogolf]

Bader didn't try enough because Dana has ripped wrestlers for having boring fights.  Bader thought he could knock out Machida and earn kudos and title shot from Dana.

I don't disagree with your take on the Henderson / JBJ fight, except that when Henderson is close enough to hit him with an H-bomb JBJ will be close enough to land elbows.  If Henderson can keep JBJ off balance and not give him time to prepare a counter he has a great shot at winning.  Also will be interesting to see how much the DWI affects JBJ and his training camp.

Originally Posted by TN94z

Machida has a very good chance...hell, he chicken legged him the first fight.

It was hard for Bader to shoot when there was nothing to shoot for. Bader is a top wrestler...don't you think he would have tried the TD more if he could have?

I personally think its all a moot point since Henderson will be the one Machida will be fighting. To beat Jones, you have to pressure him...just like Sonnen did Silva. Henderson will do that. I say Hendo by Ko. If Machida could rock Jones...Hendo can knock his block off

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Bader didn't try enough because Dana has ripped wrestlers for having boring fights.  Bader thought he could knock out Machida and earn kudos and title shot from Dana.

I don't disagree with your take on the Henderson / JBJ fight, except that when Henderson is close enough to hit him with an H-bomb JBJ will be close enough to land elbows.  If Henderson can keep JBJ off balance and not give him time to prepare a counter he has a great shot at winning.  Also will be interesting to see how much the DWI affects JBJ and his training camp.

I disagree.  If that was the case, Bader wouldn't be Bader.  Dana has been ripping them for a LONG time!  Every since Sherk was on the scene.  Bader just couldn't catch him, plain and simple.  Machida's movement is perfectly matched for wrestlers.

Agreed.  Fighting Jones is for sure a risk reward situation.  But the last thing a fighter needs to do is allow Jones to get comfortable.  The more tape that comes out on Jones, the sooner it will be until someone figures him out.  Personally, I see a lot of holes in his game.   The problem is exploiting those holes.    Everyone compares Jones to Silva but IMHO, Jones' game and technique is nowhere near as polished and error free as Silva's.

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Also want to emphasise how awesome Lauzon's submission was. It was so technically impressive... I can't think of better finishes than his was today. I'd put it above Silva's front kick, Hendo's H-bomb on Bisping, or Jones' choke on Machida. It was such a slick finish!

How did I miss this comment!!   Lauzon is my favorite fighter.  I love his attitude and the fact that he is a computer geek and such a talented fighter is awesome!  It's hard to find anyone that will bring the fight EVERY single time like Joe.  And he's just an everyday guy.  He is always on FB inviting everyone to play Xbox and he also has open talks where you can chat with him on FB. I've talked with him numerous times (alot of it about networking but also fighting).  I like Lauzon and I think he will eventually get that title shot.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by TN94z

Machida has a very good chance...hell, he chicken legged him the first fight.

It was hard for Bader to shoot when there was nothing to shoot for. Bader is a top wrestler...don't you think he would have tried the TD more if he could have?

I personally think its all a moot point since Henderson will be the one Machida will be fighting. To beat Jones, you have to pressure him...just like Sonnen did Silva. Henderson will do that. I say Hendo by Ko. If Machida could rock Jones...Hendo can knock his block off

I'd love to see Hendo win but it's not knockout power or pressuring that worries me about this fight. Stamina is what has me worried about Hendo I'm afraid if it goes past 3 rounds Hendo will run out of gas and get get submitted.

As for Bader he admitted to not attempting any TD's because he wanted Machida to feel his power first. That's dumbest thing I've ever heard but apparently that was Bader's plan I mean he had him in a clinch twice I'd think Bader could have gotten at least one TD.

[newtogolf]

Exactly, I watched the fight and didn't see Baded make much of an attempt to take Machida down.  Bader has done okay with his stand up and wants to prove to Dana he's an exciting fighter and have a shot at knockout or fight of the night.

Wrestlers are best served to take the fight to the mat and ground and pound but too many get the take down and then don't do anything so Dana and fans are on them for being boring fighters.  White has made it a point to not reward wrestlers and even publicly criticize them when they use this fight tactic to win their matches.

Originally Posted by clubchamp

As for Bader he admitted to not attempting any TD's because he wanted Machida to feel his power first. That's dumbest thing I've ever heard but apparently that was Bader's plan I mean he had him in a clinch twice I'd think Bader could have gotten at least one TD.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

I'd love to see Hendo win but it's not knockout power or pressuring that worries me about this fight. Stamina is what has me worried about Hendo I'm afraid if it goes past 3 rounds Hendo will run out of gas and get get submitted.

As for Bader he admitted to not attempting any TD's because he wanted Machida to feel his power first. That's dumbest thing I've ever heard but apparently that was Bader's plan I mean he had him in a clinch twice I'd think Bader could have gotten at least one TD.

Even though he did attempt them during the fight (or what I call his TD attempts...he just couldn't even get a hand on him to do anything),  Bader made moves to get inside to get his hands on Machida.  Just like when he got KO'd....that was a move to back Machida up to the fence for a TD. That's what he does.  Bader is over rated plain and simple.  He's not well rounded and should stick to what he knows if he wants a win. He has potential, but a title shot fighter he is not.

My point is, Bader could have attempted TDs all night long, it would have ended with the same results.  Machida is elusive.  It takes reach or just an all rush with cares of getting hit to get your hands on him (aka Jones and Shogun).  Jones has reach on Machida, but Machida fights with much more reach than what is measured.

Either way, Machida smoked him and showed why Bader is not elite material.

I'm just hating on Bader because I think he has been built into something he is not...yet.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by TN94z

Even though he did attempt them during the fight (or what I call his TD attempts...he just couldn't even get a hand on him to do anything),  Bader made moves to get inside to get his hands on Machida.  Just like when he got KO'd....that was a move to back Machida up to the fence for a TD. That's what he does.  Bader is over rated plain and simple.  He's not well rounded and should stick to what he knows if he wants a win. He has potential, but a title shot fighter he is not.

My point is, Bader could have attempted TDs all night long, it would have ended with the same results.  Machida is elusive.  It takes reach or just an all rush with cares of getting hit to get your hands on him (aka Jones and Shogun).  Jones has reach on Machida, but Machida fights with much more reach than what is measured.

Either way, Machida smoked him and showed why Bader is not elite material.

I'm just hating on Bader because I think he has been built into something he is not...yet.

I think we all agree Bader is not elite which is why I said it's not really an impressive win for Machida. Based on the circumstances he was the one that earned the title shot I just don't think he's suddenly so much better than the Machida that was 1-3 going into that fight.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

I think we all agree Bader is not elite which is why I said it's not really an impressive win for Machida. Based on the circumstances he was the one that earned the title shot I just don't think he's suddenly so much better than the Machida that was 1-3 going into that fight.

Agreed.  The win was impressive regardless.  Bader was not going to get Machida down regardless of how much he tried.  There was one instance when Bader got into a clinch with Machida and was trying to get it to the ground, and he couldn't budge Lyoto.  I think that's why he didn't even try anymore. He is the same Machida, but that Machida is still a puzzle.  Had Jones not connected with that knee in the first fight as Machida was going for something (can't remember what it was now), that fight could have ended differently.  Then of course, that led to the elbow that killed Machida's vision. Who knows??  We will see.

My thing is styles make fights and I think Machida's style is the one that would give Jones more trouble than the others anyway.   The way Shogun fought, I think Machida would have beat him last weekend as well. And Vera.  Shogun just looks like the wars he has been in are catching up to him IMO.  You can only take so much punishment and I think Shogun is on the downswing.  Vera could have won that fight had his confidence been there.

Machida's style produces longevity.  Jones' does too.  These two guys are the ones to beat in LHW.  Henderson is a great fighter, but as stated earlier, his cardio is not necessarily the greatest. I think if the fight is over within 2 rounds, Hendo wins.  If it goes longer, Jones wins.

I also think Machida has a great chance at winning.  Winners generally don't change much about their style. Losers usually bring something different to the table the 2nd go round.  It's hard to win twice in a row, unless you just got that guy's number.

Even if Machida loses, he is talking about going to MW...a TON of good fights there for him

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by TN94z

Agreed.  The win was impressive regardless.  Bader was not going to get Machida down regardless of how much he tried.  There was one instance when Bader got into a clinch with Machida and was trying to get it to the ground, and he couldn't budge Lyoto.  I think that's why he didn't even try anymore. He is the same Machida, but that Machida is still a puzzle.  Had Jones not connected with that knee in the first fight as Machida was going for something (can't remember what it was now), that fight could have ended differently.  Then of course, that led to the elbow that killed Machida's vision. Who knows??  We will see.

My thing is styles make fights and I think Machida's style is the one that would give Jones more trouble than the others anyway.   The way Shogun fought, I think Machida would have beat him last weekend as well. And Vera.  Shogun just looks like the wars he has been in are catching up to him IMO.  You can only take so much punishment and I think Shogun is on the downswing.  Vera could have won that fight had his confidence been there.

Machida's style produces longevity.  Jones' does too.  These two guys are the ones to beat in LHW.  Henderson is a great fighter, but as stated earlier, his cardio is not necessarily the greatest. I think if the fight is over within 2 rounds, Hendo wins.  If it goes longer, Jones wins.

I also think Machida has a great chance at winning.  Winners generally don't change much about their style. Losers usually bring something different to the table the 2nd go round.  It's hard to win twice in a row, unless you just got that guy's number.

Even if Machida loses, he is talking about going to MW...a TON of good fights there for him

I agree but I just think that Jones style gives Machida more trouble than Machida style gives Jones. It's just the length of Jones that hurts Machida because when he counter punches he will have to be coming forward a lot which will open him up. I think you are right in the fact that Machida and Jones are the 2 best fighters in that division but I'd probably argue that Hendo should be in that conversation. I don't know what to make of Machida possibly going to MW because I don't think him and Silva would fight each other so is Silva planning on retiring in the near future.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

I agree but I just think that Jones style gives Machida more trouble than Machida style gives Jones. It's just the length of Jones that hurts Machida because when he counter punches he will have to be coming forward a lot which will open him up. I think you are right in the fact that Machida and Jones are the 2 best fighters in that division but I'd probably argue that Hendo should be in that conversation. I don't know what to make of Machida possibly going to MW because I don't think him and Silva would fight each other so is Silva planning on retiring in the near future.

Very true.  Jones poses more trouble. Yeah, Hendo is pretty much a given IMO (I'm a huge Hendo fan because the guy is just "A MAN" if that makes sense....like Randy....fight anyone, anywhere, brings a fight, and has a great attitude). I actually have Hendo picked to win a few posts up.  He just doesn't have the longevity of the other two

Well, that was a surprise to me as well since Anderson was calling MW his and LHW Machida's.  I could see Silva retiring, moving up when Jones moves up (which won't be long I don't imagine), etc...Anderson is getting on up there.  If he wants to retire on top, the thought has to be bouncing around.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by TN94z

Very true.  Jones poses more trouble. Yeah, Hendo is pretty much a given IMO (I'm a huge Hendo fan because the guy is just "A MAN" if that makes sense....like Randy....fight anyone, anywhere, brings a fight, and has a great attitude). I actually have Hendo picked to win a few posts up.  He just doesn't have the longevity of the other two

Well, that was a surprise to me as well since Anderson was calling MW his and LHW Machida's.  I could see Silva retiring, moving up when Jones moves up (which won't be long I don't imagine), etc...Anderson is getting on up there.  If he wants to retire on top, the thought has to be bouncing around.

I like Hendo a lot and I really hope he wins but he will have to land the H Bomb in the first 3 rounds or he's getting submitted. I think if what Saores said is true it sounds like Silva wants only big pay fights so I'd assume that would be a sign that Silva has plans to retire in the next few years.