The UFC/MMA/Etc. Thread

[newtogolf]

Agreed, this is what happens after a major weight cut in too short a time.  Weight cut or not Weidman may have won, but I doubt Munoz would have looked this bad.

Originally Posted by pholmes

Weidman is really good, he almost beat Andre Galvao after one year of training at the ADCC championships, but I read that Munoz started his training camp at like 240 and had to spend most of the camp dieting, and it showed.

[TN94z]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Agreed, this is what happens after a major weight cut in too short a time.  Weight cut or not Weidman may have won, but I doubt Munoz would have looked this bad.

What about Weidman winning all these fights without a full training camp?  Munoz had PLENTY of time to get ready.  Munoz is no stranger to cutting weight, so it wasn't as bad as it seemed.  Munoz looked to be in great shape. Weidman wins that fight 9 times out of 10.  Munoz looked that bad because Weidman was that good.

Munoz talking about his training camp:

Quote:

My training camp has gone great. I have a new and improved elbow going into this fight, so it's Mark Munoz 2.0 and I feel good. My weight has been managed well, so I no huge cut.

I've got long camps. I end up with 14 or 15 week camps,

15 weeks?  Wow!  The normal person usually drops 1.5-2lbs per week when dieting correctly.  That's 30lbs on the max side with no water cut.  With a training camp that long, I can't see him having a bad weigh cut.  I mean 54 lbs in 15 weeks.  That is 3.6lbs per week and that is if there is no dehydration period (which can easily cut 15-20 lbs).  As hard as they work, with good nutritionists, and all the cardio they do....I don't see him having a bad weight cut.

Quote:

“I was 216.8 when I got the call. Usually I’m around 210ish, 208. I was a little heavier than normal since it’s short notice. I don’t prefer to cut this much weight but given the opportunity I’ve done worse. I’m not worried about making the weight. I will make the weight. It’s part of the sport. I welcome the test, the grind of making the weight. It’s going to make me a tougher person, not just for this fight but just in general. Just experiences with taking fights on short notice and overcoming the odds and difficulties of doing it is just good for a fighter to have under his belt.”

I mean Weidman cut what 30lbs in 10 days!

[clubchamp]

Regardless of weight cuts Weidman made Munoz look like he had no idea how to wrestle which is flat out impressive. I like Weidman but I think one more fight against a good striker with good TDD might be in order but I wouldn't mind if he got a shot. The problem is no one knows when Silva will choose to fight again if it's this year or next year will make a huge difference on who he fights.

[newtogolf]

I'd like to see Weidman and Bisping fight for the #1 contender spot, winner gets Silva.

Originally Posted by clubchamp

Regardless of weight cuts Weidman made Munoz look like he had no idea how to wrestle which is flat out impressive. I like Weidman but I think one more fight against a good striker with good TDD might be in order but I wouldn't mind if he got a shot. The problem is no one knows when Silva will choose to fight again if it's this year or next year will make a huge difference on who he fights.

[TN94z]

I say either Bisping or Lombard gets the next shot if they win. Weidman might...I doubt it. Personally I would rather see him get it. Bisping will get absolutely destroyed by Silva and Lombard is probably not going to be as good as everyone thinks against the UFC guys. I think Weidman is really a danger to Silva

[BEAN]

Weidman had such great control from the top I could not believe it.  I think he is rising fast and will probably have #1 contender fight next. Bisping and Lombard are ahead of him currently imo.

Someone has to fight Chael still, maybe Weidman or Vitor.

[TN94z]

Weidman had such great control from the top I could not believe it.  I think he is rising fast and will probably have #1 contender fight next. Bisping and Lombard are ahead of him currently imo.   Someone has to fight Chael still, maybe Weidman or Vitor.

Dana says Chael has been pushed to the bottom of the ladder. I don't think Chael fights anymore. I think he either commentates or goes to the WWE.

[pholmes]

As far as the weight cuts, they dont always show by the fighter having poor cardio.  Sometimes they do so much cardio to burn fat they end up with really good cardio.  The bad thing that happens is that they have no time to work on skills.  Even the sparring sessions in the intense part of camp are so life and death they have to stick with what they know.  They never have time to learn new skills, or even hone specific skills for that opponent.  Im not saying thats why Munoz lost, just a thought.  Ive seen Rampage do this throughout his career.  I should say, unless they took the fight on short notice the blame lies squarely with the figher also.  A profesional fighter should be in shape to a certain degree to even start a camp.  After all, its their job.

[newtogolf]

Chael said he's going to wait 30 days and then evaluate his future in the UFC.  I don't know how many fights he has left on his contract (if any), but that will surely play a role in his decision.  He didn't get paid a lot for the Silva fight unless he got some points on the PPV revenue.  If he sticks around he's going to need to win his next fight or he'll be at risk of getting cut.  2 loses to Silva and decision over Bisping isn't going to buy him many more losses going forward.

Originally Posted by TN94z

Dana says Chael has been pushed to the bottom of the ladder. I don't think Chael fights anymore. I think he either commentates or goes to the WWE.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Chael said he's going to wait 30 days and then evaluate his future in the UFC.  I don't know how many fights he has left on his contract (if any), but that will surely play a role in his decision.  He didn't get paid a lot for the Silva fight unless he got some points on the PPV revenue.  If he sticks around he's going to need to win his next fight or he'll be at risk of getting cut.  2 loses to Silva and decision over Bisping isn't going to buy him many more losses going forward.

I see it different, I don't think  losing to Silva will tarnish his reputation as much as a loss to someone else would. Especially losing the way that he did (both times, but mainly the first one).

I think there is still a lot of tolerance for Chael in the UFC.

It's more on whether Chael feels like fighting knowing that he will not be contending for the title for a long while. And when his time comes, he might just be too old.

[clubchamp]

Chael is now a big draw for the UFC and Dana might say he is now at the bottom but I'm guessing he is no more than 4 or 5 fights away. I'd imagine Dana doesn't want to see Chael v Silva again but he won't take Chael out of it completely. Lombard is a wild card he seems to have good striking but his judo will be the difference if he can take guys down I think he will have success. Bisping isn't terrible and is good at a lot of things but he's not great at anything plus I don't think he just cruises past Stann. I do think Bisping should beat Stann but Stann has a lot of power so if the fight stays on their feet it might be a tough night for Bisping. I said earlier though if Anderson decides he doesn't want to fight again this year Weidman, Bisping, and Lombard will all have to fight again either way so a lot can happen between now and then. Another thing to consider is if Evans does make the jump like he claims he wants to someone may have to fight him for the number one contender spot.

I'm also curious what happens with JBJ if he beats Hendo because there's not much left at 205 for him unless they give Gus a big fight to move him up quicker. I actually think if Bader beats Machida he could possibly be next in line based on the fact there's no one else at the moment.

[Jimbo Slice]

I don't see Chael going anywhere. He has the most takedowns in UFC middle weight history. There is a chance he might fight in another organization sooner or later, but no way is he done..... UNLESS he runs for President, which I think he would win with no problems due to his articulate speaking abilities ROFL.

[pholmes]

Glover Texiera is fighting Rampage I think.  If he gets past him he will be in the mix.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by pholmes

As far as the weight cuts, they dont always show by the fighter having poor cardio.  Sometimes they do so much cardio to burn fat they end up with really good cardio.  The bad thing that happens is that they have no time to work on skills.  Even the sparring sessions in the intense part of camp are so life and death they have to stick with what they know.  They never have time to learn new skills, or even hone specific skills for that opponent.  Im not saying thats why Munoz lost, just a thought.  Ive seen Rampage do this throughout his career.  I should say, unless they took the fight on short notice the blame lies squarely with the figher also.  A profesional fighter should be in shape to a certain degree to even start a camp.  After all, its their job.

I somewhat disagree with this.  I have quite a few friends that fight and cut massive amounts of weight.  It's not like they focus completely on cutting weight during their camp.  All they do is change their calories and macro breakdown, eat healthy, take in gallons of water per day, and just do their regular thing.  They still focus on skills, game plan, cardio, etc....They may do more cardio but it doesn't take away from anything else....that would be pretty stupid of them.  And if they are still heavy the week before the fight, they start shedding the water weight by drinking green tea, taking dandelion root, sauna, salt baths, etc....There are a TON of tricks to losing weight that most average people have no clue exist.  All of this is done so they can carry on their normal camps.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Chael said he's going to wait 30 days and then evaluate his future in the UFC.  I don't know how many fights he has left on his contract (if any), but that will surely play a role in his decision.  He didn't get paid a lot for the Silva fight unless he got some points on the PPV revenue.  If he sticks around he's going to need to win his next fight or he'll be at risk of getting cut.  2 loses to Silva and decision over Bisping isn't going to buy him many more losses going forward.

Sonnen got a percentage of the buys which, the last I read, were estimated at 1 million....Sonnen made A LOT!  He said he thinks every fighter should wait a minimum of 30 days to make any decisions and that making a decision while emotions are high is not the smart thing to do.  It's well known that Sonnen has become a HUGE WWE fan and there is talk that they are offering him big money to come over.  Let's face it...this game is all about the money. Unless the UFC offers him something big money wise or fight wise, I think he's gone.  He's already said if you can win the title, then what's the use in fighting. Then he said that he had two chances at it and lost both, so what's left?

Originally Posted by Kapanda

I see it different, I don't think  losing to Silva will tarnish his reputation as much as a loss to someone else would. Especially losing the way that he did (both times, but mainly the first one).

I think there is still a lot of tolerance for Chael in the UFC.

It's more on whether Chael feels like fighting knowing that he will not be contending for the title for a long while. And when his time comes, he might just be too old.

Even though it's Silva, it's a loss.  If he loses a couple more, he could be cut as easy as anyone.  With that being said, the UFC won't cut Sonnen...he will have to leave on his own. He makes them too much money.

Originally Posted by clubchamp

Chael is now a big draw for the UFC and Dana might say he is now at the bottom but I'm guessing he is no more than 4 or 5 fights away. I'd imagine Dana doesn't want to see Chael v Silva again but he won't take Chael out of it completely. Lombard is a wild card he seems to have good striking but his judo will be the difference if he can take guys down I think he will have success. Bisping isn't terrible and is good at a lot of things but he's not great at anything plus I don't think he just cruises past Stann. I do think Bisping should beat Stann but Stann has a lot of power so if the fight stays on their feet it might be a tough night for Bisping. I said earlier though if Anderson decides he doesn't want to fight again this year Weidman, Bisping, and Lombard will all have to fight again either way so a lot can happen between now and then. Another thing to consider is if Evans does make the jump like he claims he wants to someone may have to fight him for the number one contender spot.

I'm also curious what happens with JBJ if he beats Hendo because there's not much left at 205 for him unless they give Gus a big fight to move him up quicker. I actually think if Bader beats Machida he could possibly be next in line based on the fact there's no one else at the moment.

4 or 5 fights away in the UFC, is pretty much the bottom. Especially when most get cut for losing 3 in a row.I hope Stann beats Bisping...I don't like Bisping. Hopefully Anderson will fight again this year since he didn't take any damage.  I'm curious to see how Lombard does...I personally think it won't be as good as many think.  Bader is a joke IMO.  The guy is over rated and would get crushed by JBJ.

Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

I don't see Chael going anywhere. He has the most takedowns in UFC middle weight history. There is a chance he might fight in another organization sooner or later, but no way is he done..... UNLESS he runs for President, which I think he would win with no problems due to his articulate speaking abilities ROFL.

His coach says otherwise.  Sonnen's coach says that Chael hasn't come out and said it, but he thinks that he is done.   Chael also said he's not going to be one of these guys that comes back either.  He said once he calls it quits, you won't see him anymore.

[Kapanda]

As you hinted at, there are no formulas on what triggers a fighter to be cut. And it seems to me that, especially given Dana's high praise of Silva, he believes the fight results reflect more of Silva's mastery than Sonnen's ineptitude.

[TN94z]

Quote:

When you get stuck in this spot that I'm in, and again, Anderson Silva could announce his retirement any day, but there's also a major opportunity for a fresh start by simply switching weight classes," Sonnen said. "That's something that's very common historically that guy's have done, you know, my mentors Randy Couture and Dan Henderson have done that, and that's something to look at, as well."

Now this I would like to see.  He had said a while back (I can't find the interview now) that he wasn't interested in moving up since he had already fought at 205 in the past, which is what led me to believe that he was done now.  But if that's an option he would consider, then I think that's what he does.  I don't think he stays at 185 though. He either leaves or moves up.

Also, Bisping wants Weidman now instead of Stann because everyone is calling him the #1 contender

Quote:

michael
@bisping

Weidman looked great last night. But no1 contender? If that's the case I want to fight him and prove I'm the number 1 contender. Let's do it

That's what Weidman needs.  It would prove a lot.  With that being said, I think the Bisping and Stann fight needs to happen and then maybe Weidman fight the winner.  But I also think a lot of people are overlooking Alan Belcher.  I think Belcher is a fighter to look out for....he is all around an awesome fighter.

[newtogolf]

Sonnen hinted he might consider going back to 205 in a recent interview so he could start fresh.  Seems he'd like a shot at JBJ.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Sonnen hinted he might consider going back to 205 in a recent interview so he could start fresh.  Seems he'd like a shot at JBJ.

Yeah, that's what I just read.  I can see that.  My only thing is he also said that if he can't win a championship, then he doesn't want to waste the time.  While he can give a lot of the upper 205'ers a problem, I don't think he is on the Jones level.  It would be good to see him move up though.