Tips on working/shaping the ball?

[Kevin18]

Hello,

Today I started a play to be able to shape the ball. It started off suprisingly well for me. I shape the ball like Bubba and how Jim Flick recommends. Instead of aiming my body and then just opening/closing the face, I aim my body in the direction for it to start, then during my swing I either "hold" off my hands or I rotate them around, based on what kind of shot Im hitting.

The fade works incredibly well. I could hit a controlled fade and I was loving being able to hit them. The draws didn't work so well. Occasionally they would, but most time they didn't. I don't understand? I tried the traditonal method (aim body where to start, then  just open/close the face) but that didn't work either. Any suggestions?

And also, this worked better with like shorter irons (7-9) but as you go down, they would either major slice or just go off in a not so controlled way? Oh by the way I can hit it straight, thats the only reason I started shaping. I knew I couldn't start until I knew I could hit it straight.

Any suggestions?
God bless!

[newtogolf]

I'm hardly an expert but would suggest you stick with the traditional method rather than try to master the timing required to do it the way Bubba does.  Bubba has great hand eye coordination, timing and control, most people aren't gifted enough to shape shots the Bubba way.

[Kevin18]

True, but I tried the traditional way but I would always just hit it straight the way I was aiming? What about you, do you work he ball? And if so, what do you do?

[newtogolf]

My stock shot is a slight draw which I'm content with for now.  I plan to stick with it for this season and maybe consider learning to hit a fade or stronger draw over the winter.  Do a search here for ball flight laws and you'll get much better advice on how to hit draws and fades than I can offer.

Originally Posted by Kevin18

True, but I tried the traditional way but I would always just hit it straight the way I was aiming? What about you, do you work he ball? And if so, what do you do?

[jshots]

Don't try to learn to feel it, that is just stupid in my opinion. It takes wayyyyy too much practice when you can use your normal swing and start shaping the ball right now just as well as you could otherwise.

First you need to find two target lines from your ball. The first is where you want the ball to start (for example a fade for a right hander, the first line would be to the left of where you want the ball to end up) and the second line needs to be outside of that first line, the second line will be your swing plane (so in the same example your second line would be even further to the left of your first line, which is already left of where you want the ball to go, seems scary sometimes i know).

I personally pretend I am going to hit the ball down the outside line, for me to do it well I have to fully commit in my head that that is where my target is (otherwise i find that i mess things up sub consciously). Once set up to the second target line i chose, I close/open my clubface (open in our example) to that first target line I picked out. At this point I close my eyes and regrip, because again my sub conscious seems to **** things up. From there I just take my normal swing as If I were hitting a ball down the second line that I picked out.

When I first started doing this, I had a hard time trusting that the ball would do what I wanted out of it, and sometimes you have to aim what feels like WAY outside of the target and it can just feel scary. The bigger the angle between your first and second target lines, the stronger the shape of the shot will be, so get on the range and practice a little bit with different amounts of angle.

That is really it, take your normal swing. The only thing I change at all from my normal swing is ball position, slightly back for a fade, forward for a draw.

It took me one range session to start hitting fades/draws using this method, and it feels good to see your playing partners faces when you fade a ball 20 yards left to right over water from behind a tree with a 5i.

[Kevin18]

Quote:

First you need to find two target lines from your ball. The first is where you want the ball to start (for example a fade for a right hander, the first line would be to the left of where you want the ball to end up) and the second line needs to be outside of that first line, the second line will be your swing plane (so in the same example your second line would be even further to the left of your first line, which is already left of where you want the ball to go, seems scary sometimes i know).

I personally pretend I am going to hit the ball down the outside line, for me to do it well I have to fully commit in my head that that is where my target is (otherwise i find that i mess things up sub consciously). Once set up to the second target line i chose, I close/open my clubface (open in our example) to that first target line I picked out. At this point I close my eyes and regrip, because again my sub conscious seems to **** things up. From there I just take my normal swing as If I were hitting a ball down the second line that I picked out.

When I first started doing this, I had a hard time trusting that the ball would do what I wanted out of it, and sometimes you have to aim what feels like WAY outside of the target and it can just feel scary. The bigger the angle between your first and second target lines, the stronger the shape of the shot will be, so get on the range and practice a little bit with different amounts of angle.

Wait so let me clarify. You go over the top for a fade, since the second line is even more open?  Oh and also did you do what I do- I cant trust it and if I'm trying to do a fade I will end up rotating my hands too fast over during this method to compensate and therefore hitting it straight left?

[jshots]

Originally Posted by Kevin18

Wait so let me clarify. You go over the top for a fade, since the second line is even more open?  Oh and also did you do what I do- I cant trust it and if I'm trying to do a fade I will end up rotating my hands too fast over during this method to compensate and therefore hitting it straight left?

To the first part, well technically your swing is not "over the top" but yes the second line is more open. But don't think your swing is over the top, you may be thinking about it right but saying over the top is not what I would call it, it should just be your normal swing that you make to hit a straight shot just that you are aiming down that second line i mentioned. This makes it so the angle of the face of your club is open in relation to the path of your club (for a fade).

And to the second part that is exactly one of the issues I had. IF you do everything the way I explained, you will hit a shaped shot. For me there were two things that caused problems with this, I think both were purely mental. The problem for me is that I was so used to looking down and seeing my club head a particular way that my mind would almost automatically try to get it back to square when I took the swing. So what I did to fix that is after setting up everything properly I would close my eyes, regrip the club, and convince myself that the target was down that second line and commit to it the same way I would a shot I was trying to hit straight. I also would get some fear because your first line is going to be left of the target, and the 2nd is gonna be even further left of the target which can seem scary if for example there is a lake or a tree over there, but again you have to commit to it.

It is very important that you regrip the club as though it were square to your second line instead of just twisting your hands (part of the reason I sometimes close my eyes). I'm not the best at explaining things, especially in text, so don't hesitate to ask if you need clarification.

[jshots]

So here is a really terrible picture of what I'm trying to explain. Say you want to hit a fade into this flag because of the bunker on the front right. A straight shot would mean you lined up on the black line. To hit this fade, you want to pretend you are hitting to the imaginary flag to the left, and line up your swing as such along the red line (this would be line 2 from my above posts). Then you want to open up the face of your club so that it is perpendicular to the yellow line (line 1 from above posts).

Then perform your normal swing! The ball should start roughly on the yellow line and track back over to the hole and land within birdie range, all of your friends jaws will drop in amazement.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by Kevin18

Hello,

Today I started a play to be able to shape the ball. It started off suprisingly well for me. I shape the ball like Bubba and how Jim Flick recommends. Instead of aiming my body and then just opening/closing the face, I aim my body in the direction for it to start, then during my swing I either "hold" off my hands or I rotate them around, based on what kind of shot Im hitting.

The fade works incredibly well. I could hit a controlled fade and I was loving being able to hit them. The draws didn't work so well. Occasionally they would, but most time they didn't. I don't understand? I tried the traditonal method (aim body where to start, then  just open/close the face) but that didn't work either. Any suggestions?

And also, this worked better with like shorter irons (7-9) but as you go down, they would either major slice or just go off in a not so controlled way? Oh by the way I can hit it straight, thats the only reason I started shaping. I knew I couldn't start until I knew I could hit it straight.

Any suggestions?

God bless!

You should have no problem shaping the ball with your persimmon driver.

[Spudmonkey]

Good going, love it when I read about people learning to shape the ball.

Its what the game is all about for me, and I never even knew it until I learnt to work the ball.

Stick with it, practice with a 6I for draws and use a 5I for fades, prob' easiest clubs to start with, (higher lofts require greater level of skill, lower lofts give you to much action when starting).

Pure setup changes, without any change to your swing feel normaly produce smaller amounts of curve. Once you incorporate swing feel changes ie, hold off or release harder thats when you see the big changes in ball flight.

The whole game of golf is about feel.(just that people tend to forget it)

Enjoy it.

[Kevin18]

Originally Posted by jshots

So here is a really terrible picture of what I'm trying to explain. Say you want to hit a fade into this flag because of the bunker on the front right. A straight shot would mean you lined up on the black line. To hit this fade, you want to pretend you are hitting to the imaginary flag to the left, and line up your swing as such along the red line (this would be line 2 from my above posts). Then you want to open up the face of your club so that it is perpendicular to the yellow line (line 1 from above posts).

Then perform your normal swing! The ball should start roughly on the yellow line and track back over to the hole and land within birdie range, all of your friends jaws will drop in amazement.

Great Picture. It clarifies a lot. I thought you mean that your body would like up at yellow and clubface at red before! Thats why I thought you meant over the top. And I will certainly try this. Any other tips on trying to get that picture out of my head that I will need to rotate my hands too fast?

[jshots]

For me the closing my eyes and regripping worked pretty well. And just pretend you have an imaginary target that you are trying to hit at like i put in the picture.

This is a long article on ball flight laws, but it is how I learned this stuff http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws .

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by Kevin18

Great Picture. It clarifies a lot. I thought you mean that your body would like up at yellow and clubface at red before! Thats why I thought you meant over the top. And I will certainly try this. Any other tips on trying to get that picture out of my head that I will need to rotate my hands too fast?

The hands rotation is my biggest problem when trying to hit a fade as well.  I can't stop them from rotating; if I do, then I'm going to hit a weak block.  I make sure my face angle is open at address (pointed down the yellow line), and rehearse releasing the club so that the face points down that line at impact while "released".  It's not exact, but you can get it pretty close with a few focused rehearsal swings.

[Kevin18]

Okay thanks guys! I'm going to the range soon and I will update you guys on how well (or most likely poorly) I do and what I still need help on!