Are you a single digit HC player that hit the wall......are you stuck?..... you can't go lower? Do you want to go lower?

[LovinItAll]

I don't think it will either!!!   This is the point I was trying to make.........learning to play equally well on a tougher course will lower the HC.  IMO....people who play easier courses will have a much more difficult time shooting scores low enough to reach the similar HC.   For example......play a 77.5cr course every day and you could average 80 and be scratch.  I think I am much more likely to average 80 on a tough course than to average 72 on an easy course to achieve the same outcome.  In my case....my average score is 77 from both sets of tees.......75.1cr and 72.5cr. = instant HC reduction

^^^^^This. I, too, shoot about the same numbers when I back up. I played our tournament boxes on one of our courses for the first time last week (no tee markers). I thought I'd struggle mightily - she's 76.3/149 and 7604 - but I grinded out a 79, which is significantly lower than my index (almost two full strokes). Don't think I'd want to play those boxes all the time, though. The wind kicked up to ~25 mph or so on one of the par fives and I hit driver/3w/5w and didn't get home. Was a demo 5w, so I'm blaming it on that ;-)

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Yeah - tournaments are the best way to 'see' where you stand IMO.  By the way, I saw the SCGA is having a tournament at San Jaun Hills on September 7th.  Cost is only $55 and they are using SCGA handicap and will flight according to handicap.  There will be low net and gross winners.  I'm thinking of going out and embarrassing myself?  Do you want to caddie for me?

If you're competing in the gross/scrach category......you'll definitely want to get comfortable playing from 7000+ yds on a tough course!!!  The city-opens/local/state publinks championships won't be played from forward tees on dink-and-dunk courses.

The net divisions are a completely different animal.......apples to oranges!

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by ndb8fxe

This is an interesting idea, but what happens when you play your next tourney?  Now you handicap is lower, but your skills haven't increased.  Will it be more difficult to do well in tournaments?

Scratch golfers don't enter flighted net/tourneys from forward tees.....HC isn't relevant in low-gross events.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

If you're competing in the gross/scrach category......you'll definitely want to get comfortable playing from 7000+ yds on a tough course!!!  The city-opens/local/state publinks championships won't be played from forward tees on dink-and-dunk courses.

The net divisions are a completely different animal.......apples to oranges!

Yeah - the increase in distances to 7K+ could definitely hamper my play.  As I usually hit a driver 255 to 280 depending on conditions.  So playing from 7K+ - especially here at sea level is a challenge for me.... Most courses we play from the 6,800 box.  Or a course that keeps the par 3's in the >200 range.  Once you get into the 7K range, a lot of the par 3's will be 200+ which becomes a task.  Although I'm getting better on par 3's @ 215 or less.  Which is intriguing.  I probably need to play the longer tees for the balance of the year and see how I do.

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Buckeyenut- are you now able to go lower from the tees you used to play or do you find you still shoot about the same?  I ask because sometimes it is a lack of game and sometimes it is mental.

If you are capable of shooting 1 or 2 over from the tips, then you should be able to shoot even or under from the next tee up when your game is on.  However, I think lots of golfers have a comfort zone in terms of score that they find a way to regress to even on a somewhat easier course.

I agree with your advice, but also think it is good to go the other way and play as easy a course as possible every once in a while to get comfortable shooting a lower score.

I haven't played the forward tees all summer so I really don't know for sure.  I just shot a personal best 72 today from the tips (75.1 141slope 7121yds) and my best from forward is 68.(72.5cr 137slpe 6564).    I'd say my 68 is better than the 72 at this point, but I've played the forward tees many more times by comparison.

I've recorded hole-by-hole stats for 98 rounds so far in 2012........

My low round from the tips is 72 through 38 rounds, and a 69 through 62 rounds in 2012.  Where the stats really get interesting is looking at the hole-by-hole stats because I score better on a couple of the big par4's from the tips because I can't reach certain trouble areas from the tips.  The holes are still long enough from forward that I can't lay up.....fun stuff!!    I should post a hole by hole analysis with yardages and average scores on each hole from forward/back tees....LOL   That could be fun.....

I will say this....if I travel to an away course with a CR of 70-71 with a 120'ish slope.....my expectation is par golf.

[LovinItAll]

Here are the details of the course where Mid-Am qualifying just finished in Vegas: Las Vegas National Golf Club 6,773 Yards, Par 71 (73.5/137) Don't imagine they'll take more than two players and two alternates, but here are the top six scores: 67, 70 72, 73 (3 players). The 70 is playing to something like a +4, and this is the Mid-Am. Just a sample of what you might be looking at if you want to compete in events like this. Hope this isn't considered a hijack. Edit: It is Vegas, though, so really, the 6,773 is more like 5,100 yards.....everyone knows that.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Here are the details of the course where Mid-Am qualifying just finished in Vegas:

Las Vegas National Golf Club

6,773 Yards, Par 71 (73.5/137)

Don't imagine they'll take more than two players and two alternates, but here are the top six scores: 67, 70 72, 73 (3 players). The 70 is playing to something like a +4, and this is the Mid-Am.

Just a sample of what you might be looking at if you want to compete in events like this. Hope this isn't considered a hijack.

Edit: It is Vegas, though, so really, the 6,773 is more like 5,100 yards.....everyone knows that.

LOL!  Good point.

[imtomtomim]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I have another suggestion if you're a single-digit handicapper wanting to improve -

Play tournaments.

For one, it will force you to practice more. For two, it will scare the crap out of you. You'll most likely embarrass yourself as your 5 handicap nets an 86 in competition.

But you will improve.

First one I played, 4 putted the first hole, lipping out every attempt.  Crap scared out.

Now, when I do light lifts at home, I hit putts during my rest interval to acclimate to the adrenaline and twitchiness.

I also noticed that my scores were better on harder courses, until I played a few short easy ones in a row.  I realized that the longer distances only put me in more favorable approach spots because I would use the driver whenever I could, and if I could find the same spots on shorter courses, I'd have an easier game.  The tee-shot layup has changed my game.

[Brandon Mahoney]

Would a 7 index improve more by playing in the gross division (with a slim chance of being competitive) vs. playing in the net division of a tournament?  Is it a distraction to the better players to be paired with a handicapper that is less competitive?

[iacas]

A really high handicapper? Yes. An honest 7? No, it shouldn't be. Maybe to a few jerks, but I think most can play with people not breaking 100 and not worry about it much.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

^^^^^This. I, too, shoot about the same numbers when I back up. I played our tournament boxes on one of our courses for the first time last week (no tee markers). I thought I'd struggle mightily - she's 76.3/149 and 7604 - but I grinded out a 79, which is significantly lower than my index (almost two full strokes). Don't think I'd want to play those boxes all the time, though. The wind kicked up to ~25 mph or so on one of the par fives and I hit driver/3w/5w and didn't get home. Was a demo 5w, so I'm blaming it on that

7604?  Holy crap!  And driver/3w/5w didn't get it home?!  What is that a 650 yard par 5?!

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I have another suggestion if you're a single-digit handicapper wanting to improve -

Play tournaments.

For one, it will force you to practice more. For two, it will scare the crap out of you. You'll most likely embarrass yourself as your 5 handicap nets an 86 in competition.

But you will improve.

So true. Since I joined my CC, I have played in a few tourneys, and I'm currently playing in our club championship. It makes you perform under pressure, with jitters, playing the ball down, with all kinds of mind games running around your head. Wonderful stuff. On the first tee of the club qualifier, it took me four tries to get the ball on the tee I was shaking so bad. I'm getting better now though.

BTW, I made the semi-finals

Edit: It is also addicting!

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Brandon Mahoney

Would a 7 index improve more by playing in the gross division (with a slim chance of being competitive) vs. playing in the net division of a tournament?  Is it a distraction to the better players to be paired with a handicapper that is less competitive?

Not in too many tournaments these days, but I play weekly matches against people from ~ 2 to 28 index. I can play up or down to anyone's level, so I'd prefer to play straight up against a low capper than play net against a 28. Especially when they're putting for pars and birdies all day (the 28 I mean )  . Gross is the true test.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Not in too many tournaments these days, but I play weekly matches against people from ~ 2 to 28 index. I can play up or down to anyone's level, so I'd prefer to play straight up against a low capper than play net against a 28. Especially when they're putting for pars and birdies all day (the 28 I mean )  . Gross is the true test.

I've never actually played in a tournament, and none of my golf buddies are anything more than slightly better than me, but I find I'm also influenced by how good the randos I'm paired with are (it's usually just me and one other guy I know with two randos).  If paired with two players clearly better than us, I definitely find I play better.

I'm not very competitive against other players in the casual rounds I play, but in real competitions I'm super competitive, and I could imagine both playing better when paired with a 2-4 capper and not only playing worse generally against a 28 but getting pissed and playing even worse when they're kicking my ass even though I'm outshooting them gross by 10+ strokes.

[onesome]

I just established my first index 3 months ago at 8.7 and I am down to 5.9 now, I usually play from tees that are 72.6 rated and 135 slope, sometimes I play another combo that's 139 slope 73.9 rating every friday, so is my index lower than it should be cause I play a tougher/ higher rated course or is it more legitimate? Lowest round so far was 74 and rated at 1.4 from 135 slope and 79 from 139 slope was 4.3. or 4.5 (can't remember exactly).

[LovinItAll]

7604?  Holy crap!  And driver/3w/5w didn't get it home?!  What is that a 650 yard par 5?!

It was only 580, but it was playing into a 25mph headwind. I ended up about 20 yards short. I'm not a long bomber, anyway. It's unfortunate that there's no way to handicap a course when the wind is really blowing. My score, while not impressive on its own, was pretty damn good considering the conditions.

[onesome]

It was only 580, but it was playing into a 25mph headwind. I ended up about 20 yards short. I'm not a long bomber, anyway. It's unfortunate that there's no way to handicap a course when the wind is really blowing. My score, while not impressive on its own, was pretty damn good considering the conditions.

That's interesting about what you said concerning wind. Some members at my course (low indexes) have said or course will play as hard as spyglass from the tips when the wind is up (74.5 142) I have not played spyglass myself but still find that a little hard to believe.

[Parker0065]

I think there's a lot of factors in play in moving back a tee box and playing better. What type of player you are and what type of course your playing come into play. For myself I definetly score lower from the back tees at my home course but it's a relatively short and tight course. If I play from the "Regular" tees I've got too many approach shots in that 50-75 yard range. Even from the back tees I'm only hitting driver 8 out of 14 times but the key is I'm hitting full sand or gap wedge shots into the greens taking the guess work out of half-swing approach shots.

If your a straight/short hitter playing on a long wide open golf course then there probably isn't much advantage in moving back, and you've more than likely just made it harder on yourself. For a Bomb/Gouge type player playing a shorter tighter course they might be inclined to hit more drivers from the back tees forcing more balls O.B. and in the trees.

As mentioned by others, playing in tournaments and practice will definetly improve your game. Whether it's a tournament or casual round it's usually pretty easy to see who has real tournament experience and who doesn't after a couple holes. In the first round of my club championship this year I was paired with a couple guy's that were very nervous and it showed. Both of them got off to poor starts and on the 4th tee one of them came up to me and said "Gee, I'm so nervous. I'm not playing my normal game" At the time I had gotten off to a solid start and was -1 under after three holes. I looked at him and said "Dude, you don't think I'm nervous? I feel the nerves just like you and it's a natural thing you have to learn to play with. You have to learn to embrace it and fully expect it to be there". My words of encouragement did little to settle him down so I guess I better not quit my day job,lol.

It reminded me of the most nervous I've ever been on the golf course. In 1982 I was playing in my first Boys High School State Championship and on the first tee there were 200-300 parents/spectators lined up around the tee box and down the fairway. Not exactly a US Open size crowd but I'd never hit a golf shot with that many people watching in my life. We drew straws and I was last to hit. The first kid gets up and dead tops it into the left rough about 50 yards off the tee. The next kid gets up and dead tops it 50 yards into the right rough. Now I'm so nervous I can't breath, literally I couldn't get any air into my lungs. Something that comes so natural to every human being on earth as taking a breath of air and I had to stop and actually tell my body to take a breath or I was going to pass out right there on the first tee,,lol! I had hit driver in practice rounds on that hole but after witnessing my two playing partners demise I put the driver away and pulled out my 3-wood. To this day I still remember my backswing because I took it back so slow still trying to calm myself. Through the ball I made solid contact and the ball went straight down the middle about 200 yards. The crowd let out a loud cheer(after the first two guy's topped their drives they were just looking for something to cheer about,,,lol) and I was able to finally take a deep breath! Since that day all those years ago I've played in local US Open qualifiers and have never felt that kind of pressure or nerves on the first tee.