Jump to content
IGNORED

Why is it unbelievable I can drive 300+ ?


Note: This thread is 4478 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

Ok I have a program now, I took screen shots at every frame and my  picture looks nothing like what erik is posting. I'm not sure if it's the ghosting from the club that is showing up on youtube or what but here are the exact frames and then I masked them together.

And here they are all masked todether.

I'm not sure whats going on, but these images arn't even close. I can only guess he is grabbing a ghosing image of my club? The frames I just posted are the true frames and 100% legit.

Add up the one I posted if you get time.

Seriously?

Driver:  Callaway Diablo Octane 9.5*
3W:  Callaway GBB II 12.5*, 5W:  Callaway Diablo 18* Neutral
3H:  Callaway Razr X, 4H:  Callaway Razr X
5-PW:  Callaway X Tour
GW:  Callaway X Tour 54*, SW:  Callaway X Tour 58*
Putter:  Callaway ITrax, Scotty Cameron Studio Design 2, Ping Anser 4


Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

I'm not sure whats going on, but these images arn't even close. I can only guess he is grabbing a ghosing image of my club? The frames I just posted are the true frames and 100% legit.

Add up the one I posted if you get time.

Also ghosting your hands just after impact?

Looks like your software does not show all frames.

But if Erik made a mistake in the radius of the swing, then all is well and you can keep driving long, and replying even loooonger.


Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Seriously?

Seriously what? I'm dead serious. My frames are dead on, I'm looking at the acutal .mts file taken straight from my video camera, before any rendering or compression. Like I said, something is for sure gettting lost  in translation.

Originally Posted by luu5

Also ghosting your hands just after impact?

Looks like your software does not show all frames.

But if Erik made a mistake in the radius of the swing, then all is well and you can keep driving long, and replying even loooonger.

Im using Sony Vegas pro 8.0 and it is showing me the frames exactly. After I render the video and load it onto youtube there is tons of ghosting. I'm not sure why but it almost looks like its adding a half frame. I have a very good way to prove or disprove this, allow me to explain how. I have a Cannon Vixia HF20 camcorder, It takes videos in .mts format. All my videos are rendered and compressed before loading to youtube because I'm not sure how to load a raw .mts file onto youtube or if it is even possible. After the render and compression there is lots of ghosting on fast motion objects like the club. I can go out today and take a single swing video, then send it to erik via email. Then I will take the same file render, compress, and then post it to youtube. I guarantee that if he do does the angles and math with both the raw file and the file from youtube of the same exact swing. The results will be much different between the two files of the same swing. If you don't believe me then lets do it.

Sincerely, Jim


Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

Seriously what? I'm dead serious. My frames are dead on, I'm looking at the acutal .mts file taken straight from my video camera, before any rendering or compression. Like I said, something is for sure gettting lost  in translation.

Im using Sony Vegas pro 8.0 and it is showing me the frames exactly. After I render the video and load it onto youtube there is tons of ghosting. I'm not sure why but it almost looks like its adding a half frame. I have a very good way to prove or disprove this, allow me to explain how. I have a Cannon Vixia HF20 camcorder, It takes videos in .mts format. All my videos are rendered and compressed before loading to youtube because I'm not sure how to load a raw .mts file onto youtube or if it is even possible. After the render and compression there is lots of ghosting on fast motion objects like the club. I can go out today and take a single swing video, then send it to erik via email. Then I will take the same file render, compress, and then post it to youtube. I guarantee that if he do does the angles and math with both the raw file and the file from youtube of the same exact swing. The results will be much different between the two files of the same swing. If you don't believe me then lets do it.

Based on that footage.  I'm going to have to chalk your distance claims up to course conditions.  What altitude are you at?

Driver:  Callaway Diablo Octane 9.5*
3W:  Callaway GBB II 12.5*, 5W:  Callaway Diablo 18* Neutral
3H:  Callaway Razr X, 4H:  Callaway Razr X
5-PW:  Callaway X Tour
GW:  Callaway X Tour 54*, SW:  Callaway X Tour 58*
Putter:  Callaway ITrax, Scotty Cameron Studio Design 2, Ping Anser 4


Originally Posted by KaiL

I think  Iacas  made a mistake in getting the  radius of the circle earlier!  Its  67"  instead of  57"......(43+26-2).

So the swing speed should be  ~96*(67/57) = 112.


Uh oh.


I'm not sure if what this guy is saying holds water, but now I think I need to learn what Eric is doing so I can at least cross reference it. I tried once but I don't have any software that I can slow the video down without it blurring the club head drastically. I tried downloading three different things, but they are all trial versions and I cant use the slow motion.

He's looking at the time elapsed between frames (known), estimating the angular velocity since your video didn't have the frame at impact (unknown), and doing a conversion between angular velocity and linear velocity at impact (club head speed).  He's taking the left shoulder as the center of a circle that the clubhead is traveling around.   I'm not sure how long your left arm is, but assuming a 45" driver, you can overlay the driver, take a percentage and come up with something.  26" seems reasonable.  You grip down 2", so (45-2) + 26 gives 69.  He estimated that the clubhead traveled 53° in 1/29.97 seconds, or 1588 degrees/seconds.  This is 27.715 in radians/second.  You need to know the radius to convert between angular velocity and linear (tangential) velocity, or r here, where omega is the angular velocity:

\omega = \frac{d\phi}{dt}

This is related to the cross-radial (tangential) velocity by:

\mathrm{v}_\perp=r\,\frac{d\phi}{dt}

Google says this:

(27.71500 * 67) * (inches per second) = 105.505966 mph

and for 69

(27.71500 * 69) * (inches per second) = 108.655398 mph

Either way, both decent for a beginner.

[ Equipment ]
R11 9° (Lowered to 8.5°) UST Proforce VTS 7x tipped 1" | 906F2 15° and 18° | 585H 21° | Mizuno MP-67 +1 length TT DG X100 | Vokey 52° Oil Can, Cleveland CG10 2-dot 56° and 60° | TM Rossa Corza Ghost 35.5" | Srixon Z Star XV | Size 14 Footjoy Green Joys | Tour Striker Pro 5, 7, 56 | Swingwing


Originally Posted by bunkerputt

He's looking at the time elapsed between frames (known),

I guess maths are clear. We are assuming that it is 30fps. Probably is. But now Jim Slice has not found the same frames as Erik. I guess this is the beef.


I'm not sure whats going on now ROFL. Maybe the numbers are right maybe they are wrong, but now I'm almost positive the points aren't in the right place's.

Sincerely, Jim


  • Administrator
Originally Posted by KaiL

I think  Iacas  made a mistake in getting the  radius of the circle earlier!  Its  67"  instead of  57"......(43+26-2).

So the swing speed should be  ~96*(67/57) = 112.

Derp.

I've corrected the error(s) in the original post: http://thesandtrap.com/t/60345/why-is-it-unbelievable-i-can-drive-300/100_100#post_741854 .

105 there, 112 in the other one.

I removed the "thumbs up" I got on that post and removed some comments that quoted that post. I wrote that post at 6:30pm, so I can't blame being tired. Just a good flat out brain fart of a mistake.

Having measured my own swing with a tape measure I cannot even conclude that 57" is closer to correct than 67" (admittedly I was posing a non-flipped impact).

The math there (I think!) is:

Lowercase letters represent sides, uppercase represents angles:
c^2 = a^2 + b^2 - 2ba cos(C)
cos(C) = (a^2 + b^2 - c^2)/(2ab)
cos(C) = (43^2 + 26^2 - 67^2)/(2 * 43 * 26)
cos(C) = (1849 + 676 - 4489)/2236
cos(C) = -0.8783542039356
C = 151 for 67" (above)
C = 109 for 57" (just plug it in for c instead of 67)
109 is a pretty small angle! Most pros will get about 155 or so with their driver (remember this angle is in 3D space, so it's not only the angle viewed down the line with the left arm on a steeper angle than the shaft of the club, but also face-on, if there's any flipping or lag, and the triangle - the plane of the triangle contains the three points - the hands, sweet spot, and left shoulder).

Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

I didn't say there was an error in the math, just that something MAY be lost in translation somehow.

It turns out you should have questioned the math.

I goofed. I made a mistake, and for now, I'm willing to change my opinion. Given that the OP lives in Las Vegas, I think he can do what he's said. Maybe not the 4I 2 out of 3 times (I suspect that hole isn't actually 211 yards), but the driving stuff, sure, I'll go with it for now and have no problem saying "I was wrong. I made a mistake in the math and it short-changed him by 15 MPH or so in both cases."

FWIW the frames I used were simply the fields in the video. You're looking at the frames, the blended frames. You have the source video, I have what I can get from YouTube.

  • Upvote 1

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Google says this:

(27.71500 * 67) * (inches per second) = 105.505966 mph

and for 69

(27.71500 * 69) * (inches per second) = 108.655398 mph

Either way, both decent for a beginner.

And 69 isn't possible unless the left arm and shaft form a perfect line with no angle at the left wrist. 67" is probably still too long, but I think 65" or so is a reasonable estimate. It's far enough from 57" that my original math error was really far off base.

Originally Posted by luu5

I guess maths are clear. We are assuming that it is 30fps. Probably is. But now Jim Slice has not found the same frames as Erik. I guess this is the beef.

We don't have to assume 30 FPS. It's 29.97 as rendered on my computer. Frames are composed of two fields.

Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

I'm not sure whats going on now ROFL. Maybe the numbers are right maybe they are wrong, but now I'm almost positive the points aren't in the right place's.

The points were in the right places. The math was wrong (since corrected).


Originally Posted by Harmonious

I think this proves that your visit to a Trackman facility will be the answer.

Yup. When are you going?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by iacas

Derp.

I've corrected the error(s) in the original post: http://thesandtrap.com/t/60345/why-is-it-unbelievable-i-can-drive-300/100_100#post_741854 .

105 there, 112 in the other one.

I removed the "thumbs up" I got on that post and removed some comments that quoted that post. I wrote that post at 6:30pm, so I can't blame being tired. Just a good flat out brain fart of a mistake.

Having measured my own swing with a tape measure I cannot even conclude that 57" is closer to correct than 67" (admittedly I was posing a non-flipped impact).

The math there (I think!) is:

Lowercase letters represent sides, uppercase represents angles:

c^2 = a^2 + b^2 - 2ba cos(C)

cos(C) = (a^2 + b^2 - c^2)/(2ab)

cos(C) = (43^2 + 26^2 - 67^2)/(2 * 43 * 26)

cos(C) = (1849 + 676 - 4489)/2236

cos(C) = -0.8783542039356

C = 151 for 67" (above)

C = 109 for 57" (just plug it in for c instead of 67)

109 is a pretty small angle! Most pros will get about 155 or so with their driver (remember this angle is in 3D space, so it's not only the angle viewed down the line with the left arm on a steeper angle than the shaft of the club, but also face-on, if there's any flipping or lag, and the triangle - the plane of the triangle contains the three points - the hands, sweet spot, and left shoulder).

It turns out you should have questioned the math.

I goofed. I made a mistake, and for now, I'm willing to change my opinion. Given that the OP lives in Las Vegas, I think he can do what he's said. Maybe not the 4I 2 out of 3 times (I suspect that hole isn't actually 211 yards), but the driving stuff, sure, I'll go with it for now and have no problem saying "I was wrong. I made a mistake in the math and it short-changed him by 15 MPH or so in both cases."

FWIW the frames I used were simply the fields in the video. You're looking at the frames, the blended frames. You have the source video, I have what I can get from YouTube.

Np bro, thanks for helping clear things up. If you could just try and do one more thing for me? Take the image I made and use the new correct math and estimate what you think that swing speed actually is.

Jimsswingframes.jpg

I now for a fact these are the correct frames and where the club should be exactly.

I will go down for sure sometime this week. I might even be able to go today

Sincerely, Jim


Originally Posted by iacas

The points were in the right places. The math was wrong (since corrected).

Small mistake, but it's numbers so it matters unfortunately.  The technique was fairly clever, IMO.  Hopefully folks are keen on the difference and offer some grace.  I'm interested in the Trackman numbers.  Swinging fast, and not really all that fast anyway, doesn't really prove much.

[ Equipment ]
R11 9° (Lowered to 8.5°) UST Proforce VTS 7x tipped 1" | 906F2 15° and 18° | 585H 21° | Mizuno MP-67 +1 length TT DG X100 | Vokey 52° Oil Can, Cleveland CG10 2-dot 56° and 60° | TM Rossa Corza Ghost 35.5" | Srixon Z Star XV | Size 14 Footjoy Green Joys | Tour Striker Pro 5, 7, 56 | Swingwing


  • Administrator
Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

I now for a fact these are the correct frames and where the club should be exactly.

I will go down for sure sometime this week. I might even be able to go today

Quit while you're ahead. The points were in the right spots. Fields are not frames. Look up interlacing if you want.

It's not coincidence that I can get 56° in your video too:

Analyzr Image Export.jpg

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by iacas

Quit while you're ahead. The points were in the right spots. Fields are not frames. Look up interlacing if you want.

It's not coincidence that I can get 56° in your video too:

I just wanted to check, and thanks for all your time and help you have given. Again Thank you very much, It was a fun time with the Thread ROFL

Sincerely, Jim


I questioned the drive as being >275. I douted it was even 270. I'd love to see the driver swing of anyone who were certain it was less than 150.

Golfer. I can get the odd drive out past 300.

Autodoubter : No you can't.

Golfer . Here's a video of a decent shot, but I can hit it better, and have on many occasions. Just don't have every swing ever taken on HD video.

Autodoubter : Well that's not even 200 yards. You need to get a gps.

Golfer : I do have a GPS and that drives was measured at ____yards.

Autodoubter : But you're playing at 3000 feet on a baked fairway.

Golfer : I never said I wasn't - I said that in my my first post. 300 happens for a variety of reasons.

Autodoubter : maybe so, but that drive wouldn't be in the fairway. I'll take my 200 yard drive in the fairway.

Golfer : I'll take my 270+ yard drive in the first cut of rough, A drive that would have been close to 300 if it stayed on the fairway

Autodoubter : So I suppose now you're going to tell us you can't putt or stick a wedge.

Golfer : Of course my putting and wedge play could use improvement. I'm a relatively new player and even professionals can have bad days on the greens. Look it up.

Autodoubter : But you're swing as hard as you can with that driver.

Golfer : Of course I am. Don't you swing hard when you have a driver in your hand?

Autodoubter : Silence . . . . thinking "Maybe I should lay low for a week or so then come back and jump down the throat of the next newish player who claims to drive it farther than I do."

  • Upvote 1

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.


Note: This thread is 4478 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • The hype with the LAB Putters is something ive kept a keen eye on but i havent actually tried one... yet!! I use a SeeMore PCB and have done for around 8 years now and it was a gamechanger for me. It was the first time i had been fitted for a putter and from then ive totally bought into the fact that the technology in the putters makes a massive difference The only issue i have with LAB was that i did quiz them on Instagram what the difference between my PCB and a LAB Putter would be as the PCB from what i can find is just as balanced as the LAB Putters, however LAB couldnt tell me what the difference was and just said they didnt beleive in SeeMore Technology, but i wanted to know 'Why'!!  So yeah, the tech im sure works and think if anyone hasnt gamed a putter like LAB or SeeMore where custom fitting is crucial, then you gotta give it a go!
    • Day 335 - More putting work, with the focus on setup and hitting the sweet spot. 
    • Day 153: putted for a while using the 2 cups drill inside. Working on bead primarily. Contact was really good. 
    • Day 8: 12/17/2024 Okay I took my new PPJ swing thought to the range today. I wasn't sure I was quite ready to do so, but I'm glad I did.  When I got it right it was good... really good. When I got it wrong it was a major fail. I hit lots of really ugly ones. But I didn't let that deter me. I stayed committed and focused on the PPJ and I avoided any temptation to go back to what I was doing before just so that I could "look" better at the range. I'm pretty excited about what I saw when I got it right.  I hit the 6 iron mostly (nearly all block work today). I also hit about 6 balls each with the PW, 8I, 5W and Driver. Those had varying degrees of success. I did crack one drive that let me feel and see what the changes will look like once I get fully trained.  Anyway, I'm going to go back to the mirror work for a couple of more days before bringing it back to the range. I do feel like if I can get this right my swing will improve a lot. So I think its worth the effort. I liked the way it looked on GEARs when I get it right, and I like the results I got at the range when I got it right. Now the goal is to work towards getting it right more often. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...