How to hit more greens in regulation & better course management

[ghalfaire]

Better course management, right!  Rule #1 is, avoid the big miss (the shot that will cost you more than a get out of trouble shot).  Rule #2 is, when in trouble pick the shot that will ensure you're not in trouble for the next shot.  Rule #3 is, pay attention to the first two rules.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

Better course management, right!  Rule #1 is, avoid the big miss (the shot that will cost you more than a get out of trouble shot).  Rule #2 is, when in trouble pick the shot that will ensure you're not in trouble for the next shot.  Rule #3 is, pay attention to the first two rules.

What does number 1 look like for you? Off the tee I look at it two ways. On longer holes I avoid taking more  club than I feel comfortable hitting as hard as I can - not that I swing that way, but if I hesitate with a driver for example, then it's not a driver hole. The other way I approach it (similar club selection but different thought process) is I take the shortest club where a less than perfect shot will still result in a comfortable distance to my next target. That next target might be a certain distance on a long par 5 or it might be the green. Both approaches might end up at the same club.

[Sai-Jin]

I got back from the range... shortening my back swing made me hit fat and weak shots....

But firming up my left hand's 3 fingers so the club doesn't have the tiny cast works great...

This game is hard ... and it's frustrating at times.

[Pablo68]

I'm still trying to get my mind around the ho hum 175 yard 7 irons (from several people).........

Are these standard clubs you guys are hitting these shots with? No longer shafts or clubfaces bent strong?

As dsc123 put it, hitting most FIRs @ 280 yds, how often are you faced with 175 yds to a green? OP, I would revise how you're managing your game and GIRs will sort itself out. Unless you're just dead balls on that day, ALWAYS play to the side of the green you can recover on. Water short? Hit an extra club to make sure you don't hit it in the water.

[DoctorYikes]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

I'm still trying to get my mind around the ho hum 175 yard 7 irons (from several people).........

Are these standard clubs you guys are hitting these shots with? No longer shafts or clubfaces bent strong?

As dsc123 put it, hitting most FIRs @ 280 yds, how often are you faced with 175 yds to a green? OP, I would revise how you're managing your game and GIRs will sort itself out. Unless you're just dead balls on that day, ALWAYS play to the side of the green you can recover on. Water short? Hit an extra club to make sure you don't hit it in the water.

I think a 175 yard 7 iron is a minimum to be taken seriously on the internets.

Kinda funny, though to be fair I have seen some dudes just blasting it out there.  Probably a greater percentage of those guys who actually obsess enough about golf to hang out on a forum dedicated to it.

THAT said, I'm usually considered a long hitter when I'm playing with others.  More often than not, I'm THE long hitter of the threesome/foursome/whateversome.  Don't say that to show off but to say that I really have a nut a 7 iron to get it to go 175.  That, and probably deloft it a bit.  I'm pulling a 7 at about 160.  I'll sail over the occasional green, but it'd have to be downhil with a blustery tailwind for me to even think about pulling a 7 at 175, ha ha.

[Harmonious]

Distance seems to be addictive.  Those who hit it long (or think they do) seem to be enamored with the max distances they can hit their clubs. A 175 yard 7 iron is tour length, and LONG tour length at that. If more amateurs would learn how to control their swings so that they can hit a CONSISTENT distance with each of their clubs, they would certainly be better off.  As the OP stated, he found out he was overswinging, yet fears not being able to maintain that 175 yard distance should he shorten his swing, regardless of whether it will result in a better strike.

Since I don't have to worry about distance (155 is a good 7 iron for me), I just need to concentrate on making a controlled swing with good contact.  If I do, the ball generally finds its target.

[Sai-Jin]

I talked to another golf pro and when he looked at me, he said that I wasn't over swinging after all.

My left arm is straight at the top and I'm coiled to my right leg.

But he said that the one thing that make ppl think I do over swing is because I unconsciously let go of my left hand's 3 fingers which

makes the club drop to parallel or beyond, thus on the down swing when I re-grip, it casts a little.

I want to keep the thread on topic for consistency instead of distance pls.  Yes, distance is important, but I'd like to maintain it and gain the consistency.

SO anyways, another thing that I'm debating about , if someone can shed some light here...

The trigger finger... does it need to be firmish / hooked onto the grip, or can I just let it hang as long as pressure point #3 is against the side of the club?

I used to have it firm, but now it's super relaxed and the pro told me to have it re-hooked and firm again.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by DoctorYikes

I think a 175 yard 7 iron is a minimum to be taken seriously on the internets.

Too funny Doc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

A 175 yard 7 iron is tour length, and LONG tour length at that.

Since I don't have to worry about distance (155 is a good 7 iron for me), I just need to concentrate on making a controlled swing with good contact.  If I do, the ball generally finds its target.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I too, consider 155 yards a good 7 iron for me on a level shot with no wind affect. I golf with some regulars and am constantly amazed on par 3s with their club selection. They look at the score card, see a yardage and grab a club that if hit perfectly with their best swing might get it to the hole. No thought given to where that yardage on the card is to i.e. where is the marker on the tee box. Is the shot uphill, downhill; is the pin in the front, back, center, etc.......... So many variables and the only thing they're thinking about is 'what's the least club I can use to get there?'

What's going to have a bigger impact on your opponents; making an effortless swing with the right club to hit it near the hole to take the greenie or swinging like a gorilla and HOPING to get lucky to be able to boast about hitting 1 club less.

I'd rather rattle them by taking their $$ than trying to impress them with distance.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

But he said that the one thing that make ppl think I do over swing is because I unconsciously let go of my left hand's 3 fingers which

makes the club drop to parallel or beyond, thus on the down swing when I re-grip, it casts a little.

I'm no expert but losing your grip with your lead hand during the backswing definitely a big problem. IMO you need to correct that no matter what.

I read about a drill years ago to help you with that. Take your grip with your left hand, then shove a tee between the club and under your left pinky and ring fingers. Complete your grip with your right hand and make practice swings, concentrating on not letting the tee fall out of your grip. That should cure that.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorYikes

I think a 175 yard 7 iron is a minimum to be taken seriously on the internets.

Too funny Doc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

A 175 yard 7 iron is tour length, and LONG tour length at that.

Since I don't have to worry about distance (155 is a good 7 iron for me), I just need to concentrate on making a controlled swing with good contact.  If I do, the ball generally finds its target.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I too, consider 155 yards a good 7 iron for me on a level shot with no wind affect. I golf with some regulars and am constantly amazed on par 3s with their club selection. They look at the score card, see a yardage and grab a club that if hit perfectly with their best swing might get it to the hole. No thought given to where that yardage on the card is to i.e. where is the marker on the tee box. Is the shot uphill, downhill; is the pin in the front, back, center, etc.......... So many variables and the only thing they're thinking about is 'what's the least club I can use to get there?'

What's going to have a bigger impact on your opponents; making an effortless swing with the right club to hit it near the hole to take the greenie or swinging like a gorilla and HOPING to get lucky to be able to boast about hitting 1 club less.

I'd rather rattle them by taking their $$ than trying to impress them with distance.

Good points. If I look at the card for our par 3 twelfth (12th?) hole, it's a 7-iron. Long is dead so I could play for an 8 just short and hope for a luck bounce. BUT in reality depending on the wind direction and where the tee markers are it's everything from a 9 iron to a full on 5-iron. If I always pulled a 7-iron based on the yardage, I'd be long or short almost every time . . . instead of pin high under the pine trees on the left. Accuracy trumps length. Distance control is a big component of accuracy, but better aim would sure be nice.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Accuracy trumps length. Distance control is a big component of accuracy, but better aim would sure be nice.

Exactly.  Another facet of controlling the distance is controlling how hard you're swinging. Players that swing the clubs that much harder to attain more distance, are putting more spin on their shots and usually amplifying their mistakes.

So many people spend so much time trying to hit the ball further when they should be working on getting a repeatable swing to produce a repeatable distance.

Who cares if you can hit a PW 150 yards? That tells me that if you're 50 - 120 yards from the green, you're going to be struggling to hit that green. A scorecard only shows the final tally; not what clubs you used to do it.

[Sai-Jin]

I played today at a tight and longish course and I started to pay attention at course management and GIR, FIR...

It looks like it's not my GIR or FIR that's actually the problem, it's more my consistency with irons. I don't always hit it on the sweet spot and I lose distance, that's when I miss the GIR.

Stock shot off the tee is a fade today.

Aiming and accuracy as well as which side to hit to doesn't seem to be a problem... it's more the iron play confidence...

I think I need to fix that right away before my course management test in 3 weeks...

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

I played today at a tight and longish course and I started to pay attention at course management and GIR, FIR...

It looks like it's not my GIR or FIR that's actually the problem, it's more my consistency with irons. I don't always hit it on the sweet spot and I lose distance, that's when I miss the GIR.

Stock shot off the tee is a fade today.

Aiming and accuracy as well as which side to hit to doesn't seem to be a problem... it's more the iron play confidence...

I think I need to fix that right away before my course management test in 3 weeks...

Did you try that drill with a tee and your grip? Does it help you keep your grip pressure constant?

[ghalfaire]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

What does number 1 look like for you? Off the tee I look at it two ways. On longer holes I avoid taking more  club than I feel comfortable hitting as hard as I can - not that I swing that way, but if I hesitate with a driver for example, then it's not a driver hole. The other way I approach it (similar club selection but different thought process) is I take the shortest club where a less than perfect shot will still result in a comfortable distance to my next target. That next target might be a certain distance on a long par 5 or it might be the green. Both approaches might end up at the same club.

To me rule #1 can be different depending upon the hole set up.  But off the tee I try to avoid trouble that is likely to cost me more than a shot.  For example if there is an OB  or wooded areas that look too tight I'll back off a club to avoid the dreaded "stroke and distance" penalty.  Even if there are nasty lies possible, like 3" thick rough at the corner of a dog leg I'll do my best to avoid it with club selection.  On approaches with, again, if there is an OB close to the hole or one of those nasty hazards that can either result in a lost ball or a really bad lie, I'll lay up and play for a "chip & a Putt" par knowing I'm risking a bogie.  Having said all of that on days I feel I'm on Vs days I'm not, interpretation of a safe shot can change.  So I don't interpret rule # 1 any different that you.  In other words pick you shot and club such that when you step up to the ball you're confident of making the shot.

[uttexas]

I miss my greens a lot left or right, specially on a longer par 3 that's about 185yds and longer, which is a 6i for me and up. Lastly, I usually have trouble if the ball is on the high rough, sitting up on the grass as if it's tee'd up, thus I most likely will miss the green by a lot and even hit a mini sky shot with the Hybrid.

Sounds like you have a good swing; but with the mid and long irons/hybrids, your ball flight is inconsistent. You are missing greens left and right. I'd say, work on your long irons so that you have a more predictable ball flight/shot cone. Taking more club and swinging easier might work for most, but I strike the ball much more solidly with an aggressive swing. With a 3/4 effort swing, I tend to get timid/less comitted and guide the club. If in between clubs, I get better results by taking the shorter club and swinging harder. Quick fix for ball sitting high in rough. Play the ball a bit further back in your stance and choke down a bit on the grip.

[Sai-Jin]

Originally Posted by uttexas

Sounds like you have a good swing; but with the mid and long irons/hybrids, your ball flight is inconsistent. You are missing greens left and right. I'd say, work on your long irons so that you have a more predictable ball flight/shot cone. Taking more club and swinging easier might work for most, but I strike the ball much more solidly with an aggressive swing. With a 3/4 effort swing, I tend to get timid/less comitted and guide the club. If in between clubs, I get better results by taking the shorter club and swinging harder.

Quick fix for ball sitting high in rough. Play the ball a bit further back in your stance and choke down a bit on the grip.

Thank you. I think you are right plus more.

I have a tiny bit of casting habit and the reason I was hitting my balls good a week ago is because I put my balls either center or slightly back at address, which is  2 inches behind where the cast hits the ball on the right spot. Man.... I thought that I got it down, but looks like I'll have to change my swing again...

Frustrating

[jshots]

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

Btw, I still don't understand how a shorter back swing that feels like 1/2 a swing would be more powerful than what I'm used to do which is overswinging.

I understand the accuracy issues I"m having now, but that shorter back swing feels really weak and I'm afraid that I'll lose 10-20 yards with my irons.

You sound like I used to sound about a year ago when I was about a 13 hndcp. Just go out on the range and try to take some half swings and see what happens. I was so worried about my distance that I would take my club way back, past parallel, making it impossible to get back to the ball consistently. I got really really wristy because I thought that the more I could cock my wrists the more distance I could get. Occasionally I would find my way back to the ball and hit one straight and long, so I thought that if I worked hard enough I could make those more consistent, that just wasn't true for that long swing.

I started taking half swings reluctantly one day with my grandpa watching my swing, and keeping my wrists a little bit more firm. It was an instant fix, my irons were more accurate than ever. I worked up from half swings to about 3/4 of what used to be my full swing. Still, my irons stayed very very accurate. With the 1/2 swings of course you will lose some distance, but I found that with the 3/4 swings, I gained back the majority of my distance and now a year later with the same consistent swing I am hitting them further than I ever did with my long wristy swing. The truth is in a long swing, there are so many areas that your power can go to waste. Yes in theory a long swing could have more power, but there is much more room for mistake, you just can't be consistent without hitting 1000s of balls a day. How many pros do you see that win with really long swings? None, not consistently anyways.

By that simple fix my game skyrocketed, my short game hasn't had a chance to catch up. I am often hitting 13-14 GIR, but my scrambling is so poor that if I miss a GIR it's an easy bogey or worse.

[chris650]

Originally Posted by pedro-m-costa

I find a great tip and a great practice is to put your hands together, palm against palm, straight out so that your elbows are facing the ground, then lift your arms up in the air in front of you, then drop your arms so that they stay almost on top of your chest. Now practice swinging without hitting a ball at first, feel as if your body is turning and your arms, and hands are doing nothing at all do this for 1 hour remember stand as tall as possible do not move your head up down or side to side, and keep your arms tight against your body. This will feel weird at first but then you will be amazed.

Am I supposed to be holding a club while doing this?