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Posted

I bought my new clubs as regular flex 1" long.

If I just take take the inch off the butt and re-grip how much stiffer will they play?

Like half way toward stiff or less difference than that or what?

tks


Posted

Others on here could probably give you the exact answer, but the simple answer is NOT MUCH.  The swingweight will be impacted a lot (will drop 6 points) but not the stiffness.  Cutting an inch off the clubhead end would impact the stiffness a lot.


Posted
  Harmonious said:
Originally Posted by Harmonious

Others on here could probably give you the exact answer, but the simple answer is NOT MUCH.  The swingweight will be impacted a lot (will drop 6 points) but not the stiffness.  Cutting an inch off the clubhead end would impact the stiffness a lot.

I talked to a guy who said it will be impacted. But in the opposite direction to what the OP thinks. Like from a 6.5 to a 5.5 for example.  I took his word for it.

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.


Posted

NOBODY on this planet can feel the shaft flex in their hand. That is flexing between the ring finger and the middle finger of the left hand as if you were trying to bend a pencil. Cutting off one inch changes nothing in flex.  You probably cannot make a machine to flex it one inch from the end.


Posted

Balls!

You guys motivated me to google vigorously  and the deal seems something like this.

0. If the shaft were a continuous cylinder then shorter would be stiffer but it ain't.

1. Because the butt is the stiffest part trimming it stiffens the shaft in isolation little to none.

2. Effect on the club as a whole is even more likely to be nothing but lower SW.

3. Add weight to the head to get swingweight back up and the club plays flexier.

4. It would take a ****load of lead tape to get the SW back up.

Maybe my winter project will be tipping the **** things myself.


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Posted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Robert View Post

NOBODY on this planet can feel the shaft flex in their hand. That is flexing between the ring finger and the middle finger of the left hand as if you were trying to bend a pencil. Cutting off one inch changes nothing in flex. You probably cannot make a machine to flex it one inch from the end.

It doesn't change a lot, but it changes the flex. Trimming the tip will quickly change the flex.

And to what sean_miller's guy told him:

Quote http://www.golfworks.com/article.asp?ai=14:
So by golf definition, even though the frequency of the club does increase as the club gets shorter (cut from the butt end), the club actually remains the same flex or gets slightly softer with respect to the sloped flex line. However, when you simply make a club shorter, you are also losing swingweight (on a driver, 1” cut is about 5 to 6 swingweight points lost). To compensate, most people would prefer to add weight to the head to maintain the same swingweight.

What Happens When I Add Weight to the Head?

Again, the engineering principles discussed above show that a heavier weight will produce a softer beam. The same holds true for the golf shaft. Adding weight to the head (or using a heavier head) will lower the CPM’s of the club, softening the club. So what happens when you combine the effects of cutting a club shorter (from the butt) and then adding weight to the head to maintain the same swingweight? These actions combine to make a club considerably softer.

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Posted
  iacas said:
Originally Posted by iacas

It doesn't change a lot, but it changes the flex. Trimming the tip will quickly change the flex.

And to what sean_miller's guy told him:

From the link you provided:

.... as the club gets shorter (cut from the butt end), the club actually remains the same flex.... [or gets slightly softer]


Posted
  Jon Robert said:
Originally Posted by Jon Robert

From the link you provided:

.... as the club gets shorter (cut from the butt end), the club actually remains the same flex....


Until you bring the SW back up which I would want and probably the great majority of people shortening shafts for themselves would want.


Posted
  Jon Robert said:
Originally Posted by Jon Robert

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

It doesn't change a lot, but it changes the flex. Trimming the tip will quickly change the flex.

And to what sean_miller's guy told him:

From the link you provided:

.... as the club gets shorter (cut from the butt end), the club actually remains the same flex....

Most people who get their irons shortened (or lengthened in my case) probably aren't adjusting the swing weight afterwards, so it's good to know the flex is probably about the same.

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.


Posted
  broomhandle said:
Originally Posted by broomhandle

I bought my new clubs as regular flex 1" long.

If I just take take the inch off the butt and re-grip how much stiffer will they play?

Like half way toward stiff or less difference than that or what?

tks

The best "rule of thumb" estimate I've been able to get from pro club makers at forums that those people share their information at is that there's about a 1 to 3 ratio of stiffness increase of the tip compared to the butt, meaning 1" off the tip is equal to 3" off the butt.  But they're usually talking about graphite driver shafts which are a different animal than your iron, (steel?) shafts.  That's a real rough guide and different designs will react differently but you could guess they'll get stiffer from none to 1/3 flex.  You already know that any time you cut any tube shorter and don't do anything else to it, it will become stiffer.  That's just reality, things don't become more flexible when they are cut shorter.

You are concerned about swing weight and I have a question or two.  You said you bought these "new", 1" over.  Did you order them from the factory custom?

Did you get a deal on a "new to you" used set and do you know who lengthened them?

The reason I ask is that some factories will sort their iron heads by weight and segregate extra light heads for use in over length sets and some factories don't.  Your irons may be 6 points over the factory's advertised spec now.
Do you know what swing weight they measure at now?
Why do you want to shorten them?
If you're currently choking down 1" on them and like the way they feel  and play then you can cut 1" off and the flex and swing weight won't change at all.  A swing weight scale measures from the butt of the club, but the weight you feel and the flex you feel come from roughly the center of your grip.  The unused club butt sticking out behind your hand isn't doing anything.

Posted

This argument/debate reminds me of another hobby I have, photography.  The debate rages over image degradation. The slightest bit of lens imperfection renders the image inferior and unworthy of a true photographer. To which I say BUNK! For two reasons.

#1  While the image degradation fanatics pontificate the imperfection quotient to the nth degree the Internet is full of over night world famous photos made with cell phones.

#2 They never bothered to look at eye opening real world facts like this one http://kurtmunger.com/dirty_lens_articleid35.html

where:

"Your colorful host will unveil the truth to these questions and more using a combination of technical knowledge, downright stupidity, and some good old fashioned brute force!"

Some advice to a person questioning the effects of lengthening or shortening a shaft. You won't notice. PERIOD! (cut from butt end)  Well I should say in amounts that normal people do it. I have to admit that when I added 8" and added about (forgot exact) 6 ounces of lead to the head - I did notice more flex taking place. When I add 3" I notice nothing. When I add 2 ounces I notice nothing. (Swing weights off the charts) Again the butt end is nearly impossible to bend. Try it next time the grip is off. You will cause it to kink and break long before it flexes.  Golfsmith claims that cutting 2 inches off causes the shaft flex to change even though nothing changed in the part of the shaft that actually flexes. i.e the tapered portion. That is why it is tapered to be the flex section.

This is like the debate over fanatical image degradation over reality. See the link I provided. It illustrates the similar debate of  minuscule change of flex compared to the real world nothing.

One could claim that shortening the shaft reduced the centrifugal effect magnifying the weight in motion "feel" But I'd bet there is not one in a trillion that can feel such a tiny change.


Posted
  dbwood said:
Originally Posted by dbwood

The best "rule of thumb" estimate I've been able to get from pro club makers at forums that those people share their information at is that there's about a 1 to 3 ratio of stiffness increase of the tip compared to the butt, meaning 1" off the tip is equal to 3" off the butt.  But they're usually talking about graphite driver shafts which are a different animal than your iron, (steel?) shafts.  That's a real rough guide and different designs will react differently but you could guess they'll get stiffer from none to 1/3 flex.  You already know that any time you cut any tube shorter and don't do anything else to it, it will become stiffer.  That's just reality, things don't become more flexible when they are cut shorter.

You are concerned about swing weight and I have a question or two.  You said you bought these "new", 1" over.  Did you order them from the factory custom?

Did you get a deal on a "new to you" used set and do you know who lengthened them?

The reason I ask is that some factories will sort their iron heads by weight and segregate extra light heads for use in over length sets and some factories don't.  Your irons may be 6 points over the factory's advertised spec now.

Do you know what swing weight they measure at now?

Why do you want to shorten them?

If you're currently choking down 1" on them and like the way they feel  and play then you can cut 1" off and the flex and swing weight won't change at all.  A swing weight scale measures from the butt of the club, but the weight you feel and the flex you feel come from roughly the center of your grip.  The unused club butt sticking out behind your hand isn't doing anything.


The irons are gigagolf. I have no idea of the SW number. By feel I would guess they're on the heavy side but nothing extreme.

Shafts are liteweight steel, TT I think.

I went 1" long to get the effect of a bit more upright lie and to get a little more distance with height mainly on the 5 and 6 irons.

Due to an order entry mistake on my part I got my new wedges std length. Right now the std 54* is feeling better than the +1 PW.

The +1 irons are feeling awkward at set-up but some of that is that I don't like offset and couldn't find anything affordable in zero offset.

The giga forged cavities aren't offset much by current standards but its enough that I find it distracting.

I got woods 1+ from diamondtour and I'm liking them better than the irons.


Posted
  broomhandle said:
Originally Posted by broomhandle

The irons are gigagolf. I have no idea of the SW number. By feel I would guess they're on the heavy side but nothing extreme.

Shafts are liteweight steel, TT I think.

I went 1" long to get the effect of a bit more upright lie and to get a little more distance with height mainly on the 5 and 6 irons.

Due to an order entry mistake on my part I got my new wedges std length. Right now the std 54* is feeling better than the +1 PW.

The +1 irons are feeling awkward at set-up but some of that is that I don't like offset and couldn't find anything affordable in zero offset.

The giga forged cavities aren't offset much by current standards but its enough that I find it distracting.

I got woods 1+ from diamondtour and I'm liking them better than the irons.

That being the case, I think I'd go to the range and try choking down different amounts until I found a length that felt comfortable.  There's nothing written in stone that says you can't have your PW- 4i .5" over or what ever feels good and your wedges standard.  For that matter you could go with 5/8" between clubs instead of the standard 1/2" and end up with a standard 9i and a 5/8" over 4i.  After that if the length is right but they feel too light you can wrap lead tape around the hosel to get it to a weight that feels right.  That's the fun part about customizing clubs.  You can always cut more off.  What to do depends somewhat on wether your doing the work or having someone else do it.


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