Help with an understanding of outside-in swing path?

[Jonnyy8699]

After I played a round the other day, I went in to the courses range, and hit some balls on their launch monitor. It was saying my swing path on average was about -8 degrees, which is very outside-in, to my understanding. I could get as high as -10, and when I desperately tried to get the club to come from the inside as hard as I could, sometimes producing a very bad shot, the lowest was about 4. That day, my drives were going straight, maybe leaking a little bit to the right, but still going perfectly in the middle of the fairway, but that was in the beginning of the round. After about the 7th hole, I was slicing the ball into the next fairway. I eventually went down to my 3 wood, which was better, but still missing fairways about half the time. And my irons were dead straight at the beginning, at the end, it was a fade that I could not control properly. So what does all this information mean? How do I improve on it? Thanks for all your opinions guys.

[mvmac]

Yes just trying to swing out to the right can def produce some bad shots because you need to know how to do it the right way.  For you having the path so far to the left there is a good chance the weight isn't far enough forward and you don't have a flat left wrist at impact.  So the feel might be to flex the left knee more and longer on the downswing to get the path less across the ball.  Not when you do that how the hips and shoulders stay pointed to the right more than if you were to just turn your hips and straighten the left leg.

Video I put together, check it out, notice my left knee

[Jon Robert]

The Secret of the `Straight Shot´ I  and  II (link at end)

------------------------------------------------------------------

A great FIELD GUIDE on the subject:  Solid Contact by Jim Hardy

He covers all the pluses and minus's that combine to go into a swing and the resulting CONTACT producing  ball flight. AND THEN tells you how to try and fix it IN THE FIELD

Boiling his book down to your specific question is that any element of the golf swing such as hip turn contributes to the end result.

If the hip turn alters the face angle then you have a miss. If you cannot correct the hip issue then you must introduce a counter measure that corrects for the face angle miss. The hips may change day to day and shot to shot while at the range or course. The end result will be a straight shot if done right  or a miss if wrong.

IN YOUR CASE The amateur has a great many of these pluses and minuses where the pro has much fewer. The amateur has a MUCH more difficult time keeping it all together such as you had at the range.  Amateurs find that the abundance of plus elements and minus elements cause confusion and inconsistency.  So what is the solution?  Read, study, practice to get rid of as many unneeded elements as you can i.e the grooved swing.

Also to confuse an amateur even more

(Trackman is a radar unit that is the best).

It's data says that if you swing wrong -  inside out

but have the face also wrong - open

the ball will go straight, that is end up where you wanted it to.

Yes!!!!

if your swing is wrong in the correct amount of wrongness the ball will end up where you wanted it to!

(about 3 to 1 ie 3 degrees in to out and 1 degree open)

What do all the numbers mean you ask. You need to study various experts to learn that.  Trackman newsletters are the best place to start See links

The Secret of the `Straight Shot´ I and II

Trackman Newsletter #4 January http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter4.pdf

and #5 July 2009 http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter5.pdf

[nevets88]

I think if you do a compare and contrast between an out to in swing and the video above about raising the handle, but from an overhead view, that would really nail the point in. At least visually. I'd bet that if you drew a circle to trace out the path of the clubhead for both cases, you'd really see the difference. I'd guess the out to in circle will be back a little more and to the right, whereas the in to out draw swing would be more forward and a tad more to the left, from above.

[Jonnyy8699]

When you say flex the knee more on the downswing, does that mean to just not come up out of the shot as early?

Originally Posted by mvmac

Yes just trying to swing out to the right can def produce some bad shots because you need to know how to do it the right way.  For you having the path so far to the left there is a good chance the weight isn't far enough forward and you don't have a flat left wrist at impact.  So the feel might be to flex the left knee more and longer on the downswing to get the path less across the ball.  Not when you do that how the hips and shoulders stay pointed to the right more than if you were to just turn your hips and straighten the left leg.

Video I put together, check it out, notice my left knee

http://swingreader.com/video/view/eaLeLh6k/driver

here's my swing, if this helps you help me at all.

And thanks guys, the info helps.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

Yes!!!!

if your swing is wrong in the correct amount of wrongness the ball will end up where you wanted it to!

You and I seem to define the word "wrong" very differently.

There's nothing wrong with a shot struck intentionally to curve to the target in my book.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Jonnyy8699

When you say flex the knee more on the downswing, does that mean to just not come up out of the shot as early?

http://swingreader.com/video/view/eaLeLh6k/driver

here's my swing, if this helps you help me at all.

And thanks guys, the info helps.

Means you're going to flex your left knee over your left foot.  Going to add pressure into the ground.  Like if there was a bug under your left foot and your were going to squash it.

Very much what I'm doing at the 22 sec mark.  Notice how much more my hips and shoulders are staying "closed", pointing to the right on the downswing.  Compare that to your downswing, try to pause it and check it out.

[nevrino]

Here's a pic of my struggle with inside out this summer.

If I would have my old swing back and had to do it all over again I would do it this way instead:

1. Film my swing once and take the necessary swing sequences, (Adress, shaft parallell to ground, leading arm parallell to ground etc.)

2. Compare the backswing with a good stack and tilt player. (Charlie wii or waite grant.)

3. Really analyze what body movements is necessary to get to every position in the backswing. (Hip rotation and knee flex, stance, left arm, right arm and elbow, wrists, shoulder plane and anything else.)

4. Once the backswing was okay I would focus on lateral movements of the hips and controlling my head(this was the key for correcting my swingpath)

The way I did it was inefficient, was like: Film swing ---> analyze --->make some corrections --->no improvement ---> repeat 100 times---> get help from sandtrap --> sucess(or better atleast ).

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by iacas

You and I seem to define the word "wrong" very differently.

There's nothing wrong with a shot struck intentionally to curve to the target in my book.

Duh! If you hit the ball the way you inteneded then It should be obvious that you did not hit it wrong.

[Jonnyy8699]

Ok well I went to the range today, and everything was better, but the fade was still lingering. Mostly every club went straight, with a slight fade, and every once in a while there would be a slice. Except my 3 iron, which I could not get to go straight for the life of me. But my driver is mainly what I was worrying about, and it was either baby fade/straight, and maybe one of every 4 was a big slice. Here are two links, the first one produced a straight shot, the second a big slice. Could someone let me know why that is?

http://swingreader.com/video/view/kwsBRWAX/driver

http://swingreader.com/video/view/CzIYs0XL/driver

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by Jonnyy8699

Ok well I went to the range today, and everything was better, but the fade was still lingering. Mostly every club went straight, with a slight fade, and every once in a while there would be a slice. Except my 3 iron, which I could not get to go straight for the life of me. But my driver is mainly what I was worrying about, and it was either baby fade/straight, and maybe one of every 4 was a big slice. Here are two links, the first one produced a straight shot, the second a big slice. Could someone let me know why that is?

http://swingreader.com/video/view/kwsBRWAX/driver

http://swingreader.com/video/view/CzIYs0XL/driver

I would suspect that both videos have an out to in swing path

I suspect that the first video has a square club face in relation to the out to in swing path and the ball goes straight

Whereas the second video has an open club face in relation to the same out to in swing path and thus the slice.

I suspect the issue is a varying face angle with a relatively constant swing path.  Square face = straight. Slightly open face  = fade.  Very open face = slice

Go find a place with tall grass and swing the driver as if a ball was there. You should be able to see the swing path in the grass. See if it repeatedly out to in.  MAIN QUESTION IS IT THE SAME EVERY TIME

The face angle is a much more difficult animal to perceive. I would say concentrate on having your right forearm and left forearm the exact same distance EACH TIME from the earth as you pass through impact. That is to say do not have the right forearm slightly higher to produce a straight shot and then the right forearm slightly lower to produce a slice on the next shot.

[tiger187126]

Originally Posted by Jonnyy8699

Ok well I went to the range today, and everything was better, but the fade was still lingering. Mostly every club went straight, with a slight fade, and every once in a while there would be a slice. Except my 3 iron, which I could not get to go straight for the life of me. But my driver is mainly what I was worrying about, and it was either baby fade/straight, and maybe one of every 4 was a big slice. Here are two links, the first one produced a straight shot, the second a big slice. Could someone let me know why that is?

http://swingreader.com/video/view/kwsBRWAX/driver

http://swingreader.com/video/view/CzIYs0XL/driver

for me to get the draw i have to exaggerate my in to out path at the ball. it feels like i'm pushing the ball out to the right (which seems counter to what you're trying to accomplish) and the more i exaggerate the more right to left action i get.

if you can find a video with a clock on it that's the best example of what i'm talking about. your target line is 12, but you're hitting from 7 to 2 or something around that.

don't worry though, i've been working on this for a little while now and now there are holes where the play is a fade to slice and i can't bring myself to get back into the out to in.

my advice is if you want to commit to the change from out to in to in to out then you have to ignore your ball for a little while. you'll hit terrible shots with the new swing and great ones with your old one, but it's more consistent (at least for me) to hit in to out.

and it'll look better to your audience as well.