good wedges for a high handicap player?

[Jimbo Slice]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

Cleveland 588 or Titleist Vokey  They alternate being #1 in pro bags FOR A REASON! Reasons like you cite.

I thought the Cleveland 588's where more of a lower handicap wedge? Get the Cleveland CG16 line, it's geared more towards mid handicappers and is slightly more forgiving. Groves are all conforming, and the laser milled etching is sweet. It's what I have, and they are damn nice.

Everyting I have is Taylormade, but I had to get the Cleveland wedges, they are to sweet.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by firstorlast

looking for some new wedges that are good for a high handicap player hopefully some taylormade?

Typically, a cavity back with a wide sole, will be forgiving, and glide more along the ground and sand, allowing you to make a mistake. As you get better, you learn to get more versatile with wedges and get something a little less forgiving with sufficient bounce but with toe, heel, and trailing edge relief.

[Jimbo Slice]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Typically, a cavity back with a wide sole, will be forgiving, and glide more along the ground and sand, allowing you to make a mistake. As you get better, you learn to get more versatile with wedges and get something a little less forgiving with sufficient bounce but with toe, heel, and trailing edge relief.

Indeed.... The CG16's That I recommend have a small cavity back, and the sole is wider then the 588's.The 588's have no cavity back. If you want higher handicap wedges for sure get the 16's over the 588's.

I love Taylormade but when you get to wedges I think its time to go with a different brand.

[WUTiger]

Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

I thought the Cleveland 588's where more of a lower handicap wedge? Get the Cleveland CG16 line, it's geared more towards mid handicappers and is slightly more forgiving. ...

OP should try both the CG16 and its predecessor, the CG14. The CG14 has gold gel insert in back of clubhead and a really smooth feel. It feels and flies about the same as a CG16, and you can find new CG14s here and there for about $80.

Also, there's a limited number of second-wave CG14 Tour Zip wedges: these have black inserts and conforming grooves, if anybody is thinking about national USGA competitions.

[tiger187126]

i got the cg14 54* and 58* in standard bounce (which cleveland has as 12*) and added a 60* cg16 (mine is one piece though, without the cavities) with low bounce (8*).

60 yards to greenside with low to no rough or hard bunker i use the 60, anything thick or fluffy and i use the 58. the 54 is my PW to 58 gap because i hated the feel of the AW that came with my set.

the 60 is the easiest wedge i have to hit off the fairway, but i have to work on spin because i hit it at the flag even though i should be hitting it 5 feet short and letting it roll.

[Jimbo Slice]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

OP should try both the CG16 and its predecessor, the CG14. The CG14 has gold gel insert in back of clubhead and a really smooth feel. It feels and flies about the same as a CG16, and you can find new CG14s here and there for about $80.

Also, there's a limited number of second-wave CG14 Tour Zip wedges: these have black inserts and conforming grooves, if anybody is thinking about national USGA competitions.

Indeed there is a conforming and a non conforming version of the cg14's, all of the cg16's are conforming.

There is a very reputable seller on ebay who sells Cleveland wedges along with other things. CG16's are $69.99 each in all loft/bounces available. Or you can buy a 3 wedge set for $170 all free shipping. Those seems to be very good prices, and I did in fact buy my wedges from him off ebay.

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by Jimbo Slice

I thought the Cleveland 588's where more of a lower handicap wedge? Get the Cleveland CG16 line, it's geared more towards mid handicappers and is slightly more forgiving. Groves are all conforming, and the laser milled etching is sweet. It's what I have, and they are damn nice.

Everyting I have is Taylormade, but I had to get the Cleveland wedges, they are to sweet.

When it comes to High Low handicap wedges.

The game improvement cavity backs certainly help prevent twisting on longer clubs. But as the loft gets greater the clubs delivers a more glancing blow and less side ways twisting forces.  Thus we have the progressive set concept. Non cavity back wedges progressing to cavity back long irons.  With a wedge and the glancing blow being a vertical thing rather than a horizontal the cavity should prevent the wedge from tipping over backwards. This is no concern since the shaft is being held and no tipping over  back wards is going to happen

I find only one purpose in having a cavity in the wedges as mine do, Hogan Apex Edge,  and that is so I can add 2 ounces of lead in the pocket. When done you never see the alteration.

Otherwise there is really very little to discuss when it comes to wedges. Head sizes, weight, grooves, surface finish etc. But cavity or not is really rather irrelevant.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

When it comes to High Low handicap wedges.

The game improvement cavity backs certainly help prevent twisting on longer clubs. But as the loft gets greater the clubs delivers a more glancing blow and less side ways twisting forces.  Thus we have the progressive set concept. Non cavity back wedges progressing to cavity back long irons.  With a wedge and the glancing blow being a vertical thing rather than a horizontal the cavity should prevent the wedge from tipping over backwards. This is no concern since the shaft is being held and no tipping over  back wards is going to happen

I find only one purpose in having a cavity in the wedges as mine do, Hogan Apex Edge,  and that is so I can add 2 ounces of lead in the pocket. When done you never see the alteration.

Otherwise there is really very little to discuss when it comes to wedges. Head sizes, weight, grooves, surface finish etc. But cavity or not is really rather irrelevant.

Seriously?

Might want to rethink that - all of that....

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Seriously?

Might want to rethink that - all of that....

No need to rethink anything. The golf industry has already done that and produced the progressive cavity set. So on an Olympic scoring system I would score your Sniping as only a 2.7

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

No need to rethink anything. The golf industry has already done that and produced the progressive cavity set. So on an Olympic scoring system I would score your Sniping as only a 2.7

Your claims that cavities do not affect playability are pretty wrong. I don't understand what the hell you're talking about with regards to a progressive set, the cavity will help playability on both the vertical and horizontal misses so there are no clubs that don't benefit. You should really learn what the CG of the clubhead is and how it affects the playability.

You can be a gigantic crackpot when it comes to club design, no one has to play your set except you. But to ruin a beautiful set of Hogan Wedges? That's unforgivable.

And Desmond wasn't making a sly or petty verbal attack. He was just bemused at the sheer wrongness of your post and didn't know where to start as far as correcting you.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

No need to rethink anything. The golf industry has already done that and produced the progressive cavity set.

I think you missed his point. He could have spelled it out, yes, but you still missed it.

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think you missed his point. He could have spelled it out, yes, but you still missed it.

Enlighten me.

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Your claims that cavities do not affect playability are pretty wrong. I don't understand what the hell you're talking about with regards to a progressive set, the cavity will help playability on both the vertical and horizontal misses so there are no clubs that don't benefit. You should really learn what the CG of the clubhead is and how it affects the playability.

You can be a gigantic crackpot when it comes to club design, no one has to play your set except you. But to ruin a beautiful set of Hogan Wedges? That's unforgivable.

And Desmond wasn't making a sly or petty verbal attack. He was just bemused at the sheer wrongness of your post and didn't know where to start as far as correcting you.

"I don't understand what the hell you're talking about with regards to a progressive set"

I guess if the photos in post 27 can't turn the light on then you are clearly a deliberate and intentional hopeless case that just likes to endlessly bicker.  Write Titleist and all the other manufactures and tell then to stop making progressive cavity sets,  maybe they could use a chuckle as well.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

"I don't understand what the hell you're talking about with regards to a progressive set"

I guess if the photos in post 27 can't turn the light on then you are clearly a deliberate and intentional hopeless case that just likes to endlessly bicker.  Write Titleist and all the other manufactures and tell then to stop making progressive cavity sets,  maybe they could use a chuckle as well.

I understand what a progressive/combo set is. As a matter of fact, I think the Wishon 575 set is a really nice looking set of irons, I'd consider bagging them if they weren't 370 hosels only.

I don't understand why the hell you brought it up. This conversation is about wedges. It's one thing to say a muscleback wedge is easy enough for anyone to use, but you claim a cavity isn't more playable? You honestly don't think hitting the ball high or low on the face isn't mitigated by perimeter weighting? And you seem to think there's an affect on toe/heel hits but not on high/low? Just clarify that for me.

OP, If you're a high handicapper, don't be shy about cavity wedges. If you want to improve over time and spend time practicing, go for a traditional set because they feel better if nothing else. If you intend to play once in a while for fun, cavity wedges will help you on full shots and not hurt your short game.

[Jon Robert]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

I understand what a .....conversation is about wedges. It's one thing to say a muscleback wedge is easy enough for anyone to use, but you claim a cavity isn't more playable? You honestly don't think hitting the ball high or low on the face isn't mitigated by perimeter weighting? And you seem to think there's an affect on toe/heel hits but not on high/low? Just clarify that for me.

OP, If you're a ....

"Just clarify that for me."

No. I have written you off as a mental case. I will likely just block you so I never see your posts in the future.  They are not worth reading being the endless bickering and contrarian for contrarian sake idiocy.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Jon Robert

No. I have written you off as a mental case.

Cool it. First and last warning. Contribute to the thread meaningfully or don't contribute.

FWIW Lucius is right: a cavity-backed wedge helps just the same. Just because some golfers prefer some combo sets doesn't mean ALL wedges need to be made without cavities. Cavities still help some golfers with their wedges (both with vertical as well as horizontal mis-hits).

[Mr. Desmond]

To the OP and Member who wanted info on wedges for higher hc - forget the bickering.

For the  Gap, SW and LW, you are discussing shots that are typically 115 yards or less. If you have a decent swing, you generally don't require a lot of forgiveness. Skip the bickering posts and find what you need from the others.

I'd find a head shape and size that looks pleasing and gives you confidence. If a cavity back gives you confidence, Members have offered help on cavity backs .. Clevelands ... Pings have a cavity, and less I forget, Bobby Jones Pelz Wedges have a hidden cavity back with an indestructible face insert and a decent grind on the sole. The shaft is also slightly heavier with a thicker grip - that combo keeps your hands steady - I had a long term review with those and they are great for mid to high cappers (and they had a sale on them at bobbyjonesgolf.com last time I checked). Or get the Taylormade ATV and don't worry about a bounce number.

As to bounce, more is generally better, especially for mid to higher caps who don't know yet how to manipulate the club to manufacture shots - the club will glide and not dig into the turf. Around this site, you'll see a lot of guys talk up the benefits of bounce, and I'm one of them. But bounce is more than a number - look at the bottom of a wedge sole - you will see some cutting away at the toe, heel, and back edge - don't worry about that now, that cutting away of bounce on a high bounce wedge offers versatility for those that know how to use it. The problem with effectively low bounce wedges and/or narrow soles is that the club can dig on you. So a wider sole will add effective bounce even if the bounce number may only be 8-10. As to too much bounce giving you problems on a fairway shot, that is typically not a bounce issue, but a swing issue. I swing wedges with 12-15 degrees of bounce off hard, tight lies all day long in Texas. (And I will let someone else discuss camber but who wants this to get more confusing... lol)

General Bottom Line - buy what gives you confidence. A lower bounce with a narrow to medium sole or a sharp leading edge may cause you to dig the club and stop it through the turf. A higher bounce wedge in the sand and lob will help the club glide. A narrow sole offers less effective bounce (generally). A wider sole adds to the bounce number. Typically, a sand wedge will have fuller bounce (less cutting on the sole) and a lob wedge may have more "cutting" or "relief" on the sole for more versatility.

After you get your wedges and start using them, you'll find threads here on how to effectively use the bottom of the sole to your advantage in bunkers and tight lies.

[lisevolution]

I appreciate all the info everyone has given on this thread.  To give you some insight into what I'm playing, on the advice of a friend of mine I picked up a used set of Nike Sumo2 Hybrid Irons which are 5-7h 8i,9i, PW, AW, SW.  They are definitely cavity backs on the irons and wedges and are definitely super forgiving on mishits.  That said there's no feel and pretty much no spin.  I know some of the lack of spin has to do with my swing which I'm definitely working on.  The thing that kills me is the lack of feel.  I mean I can shank the sh*t out of a shot and it will feel the same as if I hit it square.

As far as the recomendations, I have been looking at the CG16's and the ATV's so it's good to know that I was on the right track before posting this.  My concern on the ATV's is the fact the bounce is universal... I've read a couple of reviews that discuss how this fact might actually be a negative for higher handicap or newer players because even a subtle change in the face position can drastically change the type of shot your hitting which is obviously an advantage for a more experienced player and what the big draw is for these wedges.

I guess like everything else, I'll try to get my hands on as many options as possible and see what I feel fits me the best.  The tough part of that is I'm a lefty so it's hard to find demo clubs to try out.  I take my lessons at a Golftec that's actually inside a golfsmith and even there it's super tough to find lefty demo clubs of any type...