Tournament Do's and Don'ts

[wadesworld]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwave916

Range finders that provide distance only, are legal for play under USGA rules. Those that provide slope, temperature, altitude correction, and club selection are not permitted to be used unless those functions are disabled.  I use my Leupold 4Xi, but I have to use it with the "dummy" face plate on it.

Unfortunately, your Leupold-4xi with the "dummy" faceplate on is still illegal.

I asked Leupold about it today and got the response below:

Quote:

Wade

the case is still under appeal and to be honest i dont see it being allowed anytime in the next year or two. They are holding pretty firm on their choice of not allowing it for legal play

Thank you
---- Original Message ----


Your golf rangefinder brochure show the Luepold GX-4i USGA-legal
status as "Under Appeal." Is that still the case, or has the USGA
issued a ruling?
-------------------------

If you want to use a Leupold rangefinder, it needs to be a GX-3i.

[bigwave916]

It's not the worst $500 I ever spent, but on golf equipment it's a new personal record for "stupid"

[WUTiger]

Originally Posted by Audaxi

DON'T:

-Practice heavily after a round of a three day tournament at the course that provides free range balls, your skin will tear if you hit too many.

If it's going to be a three-day tournament, and you've had time to play/practice regularly, consider this sequence:

• Two days before tournament: Do a light dynamic warm-up, some chips and pitches, a few tee shots, and some putts. Wrap it up in an hour or so.
• Day before tournament: Just leave the clubs alone.

Especially in hot weather, some self-described serious golfers fall apart in the third round from simply cumulative fatigue. (I've seen this both as a caddie and a player)

[Golfingdad]

Question regarding advice:

A common occurrence when playing a round with strangers is the small talk early on in the round about your familiarity with the course.  If I play in a tournament with friendly guys who've never played there before, I might be liable to chat with him.  So I am wondering, which of these (if any) would be considered giving advice:

"It's a short course but you gotta keep it in the fairway"

"It's got really fast, tricky greens"

"The fourth green is crazy ... their is a tier and if the pins in front, you don't want to be on the back"

"You can't see it from here, but there is a water hazard up there"

"This par 5 has two fairways and you can play up the left fairway for your first and then cross over, or you can play up the left until your approach"

"If your drive carries over that ridge, it'll probably roll all the way through the fairway into the water"

Thanks.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Question regarding advice:

A common occurrence when playing a round with strangers is the small talk early on in the round about your familiarity with the course.  If I play in a tournament with friendly guys who've never played there before, I might be liable to chat with him.  So I am wondering, which of these (if any) would be considered giving advice:

"It's a short course but you gotta keep it in the fairway"

"It's got really fast, tricky greens"

"The fourth green is crazy ... their is a tier and if the pins in front, you don't want to be on the back"

"You can't see it from here, but there is a water hazard up there"

"This par 5 has two fairways and you can play up the left fairway for your first and then cross over, or you can play up the left until your approach"

"If your drive carries over that ridge, it'll probably roll all the way through the fairway into the water"

Thanks.

As you know…

Advice

“ Advice ’’ is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke .

Information on the Rules , distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green , is not advice .

[Gridiron]

Do

Use Google Earth to plan your round.  The measuring tool on Google Earth combined with the satellite imagery allow you to pre-plan what clubs you want to hit to give you preferred yardages into greens.  You can also find your aiming points ahead of time.  For me, this takes a lot of thinking out of the equation as on every tee I know what I want to play and why.  I might have to make small adjustments based on the wind direction/speed for that day but it was so much easier to walk up to the tee and look in my yardage book to see my notes "3 wood at 2nd bunker on the left" know that it was the right club/yardage and just proceed to confidently hit the shot.  A lot less thinking of "how far is that bunker? will I reach it? how far will that leave me to go....3 wood...driver...."

Of course the other part is once you make the plan, stick to it.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Question regarding advice:

A common occurrence when playing a round with strangers is the small talk early on in the round about your familiarity with the course.  If I play in a tournament with friendly guys who've never played there before, I might be liable to chat with him.  So I am wondering, which of these (if any) would be considered giving advice:

"It's a short course but you gotta keep it in the fairway"

"It's got really fast, tricky greens"

"The fourth green is crazy ... their is a tier and if the pins in front, you don't want to be on the back"

"You can't see it from here, but there is a water hazard up there"

"This par 5 has two fairways and you can play up the left fairway for your first and then cross over, or you can play up the left until your approach"

"If your drive carries over that ridge, it'll probably roll all the way through the fairway into the water"

Thanks.

This is an easy trap to fall into, and as such, I'm careful not only with what I say, but how I say it.  The wrong phrasing can change information into advice.

"It's a short course but you gotta keep it in the fairway"

I wouldn't say this.  It may or may not be seen as advice. Just say "The course is short and the rough can be penal."

"It's got really fast, tricky greens"

Again, I wouldn't.  Same reason.  Saying that the greens are fast is an opinion and may mislead another player. They may not be that fast or tricky to a player who has a lot of experience reading difficult greens. Saying that the greens are running 11 on the stimp is information.

"The fourth green is crazy ... there is a tier and if the pin's in front, you don't want to be on the back"

Same answer. Tell him about the tier and where the hole is cut that day.  Leave off the rest.

"You can't see it from here, but there is a water hazard up there"

This is information.  Quite acceptable.  You could even give him yardage to the hazard as long as you didn't try to intentionally mislead him.

"This par 5 has two fairways and you can play up the left fairway for your first and then cross over, or you can play up the left until your approach"

Again, information and okay.

"If your drive carries over that ridge, it'll probably roll all the way through the fairway into the water"

Danger here.  Change the way you phrase it to get back into the safe area. I'd say "For most players, there is a reachable hazard through the fairway 250 yards from the tee."  This states facts available about the course and leaves him open to make his own decision. Your phrasing states an opinion which might influence his play.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

As you know…

“Advice’’ is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.

Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on theputting green, is not advice.

Yes I do.  But I that that these questions fell into a sort of grey area (for me, currently at least) which is why I asked anyway.

Originally Posted by Fourputt

This is an easy trap to fall into, and as such, I'm careful not only with what I say, but how I say it.  The wrong phrasing can change information into advice.

"It's a short course but you gotta keep it in the fairway"

I wouldn't say this.  It may or may not be seen as advice.  Just say "The course is short and the rough can be penal."

"It's got really fast, tricky greens"

Again, I wouldn't.  Same reason.  Saying that the greens are fast is an opinion and may mislead another player. They may not be that fast or tricky to a player who has a lot of experience reading difficult greens.   Saying that the greens are running 11 on the stimp is information.

"The fourth green is crazy ... there is a tier and if the pin's in front, you don't want to be on the back"

Same answer.  Tell him about the tier and where the hole is cut that day.  Leave off the rest.

"You can't see it from here, but there is a water hazard up there"

This is information.  Quite acceptable.  You could even give him yardage to the hazard as long as you didn't try to intentionally mislead him.

"This par 5 has two fairways and you can play up the left fairway for your first and then cross over, or you can play up the left until your approach"

Again, information and okay.

"If your drive carries over that ridge, it'll probably roll all the way through the fairway into the water"

Danger here.  Change the way you phrase it to get back into the safe area.  I'd say "For most players, there is a reachable hazard through the fairway 250 yards from the tee."  This states facts available about the course and leaves him open to make his own decision.  Your phrasing states an opinion which might influence his play.

Thanks Fourputt.  I suspect that people in tournaments will be less talkative than your average casual partner so I probably won't run into this problem anyway, but if I do, I will be super cautious.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Thanks Fourputt.  I suspect that people in tournaments will be less talkative than your average casual partner so I probably won't run into this problem anyway, but if I do, I will be super cautious.

Most of the tournaments I've played in were managed by the 250 member Mens Club that I was part of for 22 years.  As such, I knew a lot of the guys, played with them casually as well as competitively, so we had just the normal on course chit chat even during tournaments.  Even so, I can't remember a single case of anyone accidentally slipping and offering advice.  Obviously, the most common mistake is in asking what club a player used before you make your stroke, or him saying what club he used.  It's one of those things that most players are aware of, so it never came up in a tournament.  I have no doubt that there were times when someone said something which was advice, but in such a way that neither the giver or receiver realized it was advice.  I never heard of an instance where anyone was penalized for such a breach, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

These are two decisions that may help you to see the difference:

Quote:

8-1/8

Comment About Club Selection After Stroke

Q. After playing a stroke, a player says: "I should have used a 5iron." Was the player in breach of Rule 8-1 ?

A. If the statement was made casually, there was no breach. If the statement was made to another player who had a shot to play from about the same position, there was a breach.

8-1/9

Misleading Statement About Club Selection

Q. A made a statement regarding his club selection which was purposely misleading and was obviously intended to be overheard by B, who had a similar shot. What is the ruling?

A. A was in breach of Rule 8-1 and lost the hole in match play or incurred a two-stroke penalty in stroke play.

Also, keep in mind that you can receive unsolicited advice and incur no penalty.  It's only if you ask for advice or offer it that you are in breach of Rule 8-1.  If on the tee of a par 3 hole I play first, then say "Wow, that 7I was too much club.  This is only an 8I."  I have just incurred a 2 stroke penalty, but you can still act on that advice if you wish to without penalty.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yes I do.  But I that that these questions fell into a sort of grey area (for me, currently at least) which is why I asked anyway.

Thanks Fourputt.  I suspect that people in tournaments will be less talkative than your average casual partner so I probably won't run into this problem anyway, but if I do, I will be super cautious.

It depends if you are playing in a medal play tournament or a match play tournament. I play in team matches in our Golf Association regularly. I usually play at home against players in match play who are generally unfamiliar with the golf course. I give them the courtesy of explaining a given hole to them on the tee. No advice on what club to use or how the ground slopes. Just things like, "this is a pretty straightforward dogleg-right par 5" or "there is a water hazard fronting the green on your approach shot". I would expect the same courtesy when I play on the road, although I don't ask.

In medal play, I would advise you to not say anything at all, as it is your responsibility to protect the rest of the field. If your playing partners start saying a lot about their club selection (or yours), tune them out. They are not allowed to ask you anything in that regard or vice versa.

Oh, and get used to putting everything out. You'll have to do it in torunament play so do it in your regular play to get used to it.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Most of the tournaments I've played in were managed by the 250 member Mens Club that I was part of for 22 years.  As such, I knew a lot of the guys, played with them casually as well as competitively, so we had just the normal on course chit chat even during tournaments.  Even so, I can't remember a single case of anyone accidentally slipping and offering advice.  Obviously, the most common mistake is in asking what club a player used before you make your stroke, or him saying what club he used.  It's one of those things that most players are aware of, so it never came up in a tournament.  I have no doubt that there were times when someone said something which was advice, but in such a way that neither the giver or receiver realized it was advice.  I never heard of an instance where anyone was penalized for such a breach, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

These are two decisions that may help you to see the difference:

Also, keep in mind that you can receive unsolicited advice and incur no penalty.  It's only if you ask for advice or offer it that you are in breach of Rule 8-1.  If on the tee of a par 3 hole I play first, then say "Wow, that 7I was too much club.  This is only an 8I."  I have just incurred a 2 stroke penalty, but you can still act on that advice if you wish to without penalty.

Thanks again.  One other silly question that I expect NOT to happen in a tournament.  It did happen yesterday though in a casual round.  A friendly stranger I was playing with hit his tee shot on a par 3 onto the green and while the next guy was hitting showed me his club.  He didn't say "I hit a 7-wood there and it was the perfect distance," he just pointed the bottom of the club at me so I could see exactly what it was, then said "bought this used the other day for $15."  His intent wasn't to give advice, just to show me how proud he was that he got what he thought was such an awesome club for such a good deal.  However, pointing the club at me like that would also serve the same purpose as saying "I hit a 7 wood there."  So actually, 3 questions:

1.  Is what he did illegal?

2.  If it is illegal, yet I was the only person that saw it, can I ignore it or am I obligated to call him on it?

3.  Does the fact that he and I are clearly not of the same skill level factor in at all?  In other words, how can it be considered advice if a guy tells me he hits a 7 wood 140 yards when a) I don't even carry a 7 wood, and b) 140 yards is a 9 iron or PW for me?

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Thanks again.  One other silly question that I expect NOT to happen in a tournament.  It did happen yesterday though in a casual round.  A friendly stranger I was playing with hit his tee shot on a par 3 onto the green and while the next guy was hitting showed me his club.  He didn't say "I hit a 7-wood there and it was the perfect distance," he just pointed the bottom of the club at me so I could see exactly what it was, then said "bought this used the other day for $15."  His intent wasn't to give advice, just to show me how proud he was that he got what he thought was such an awesome club for such a good deal.  However, pointing the club at me like that would also serve the same purpose as saying "I hit a 7 wood there."  So actually, 3 questions:

1.  Is what he did illegal?

2.  If it is illegal, yet I was the only person that saw it, can I ignore it or am I obligated to call him on it?

3.  Does the fact that he and I are clearly not of the same skill level factor in at all?  In other words, how can it be considered advice if a guy tells me he hits a 7 wood 140 yards when a) I don't even carry a 7 wood, and b) 140 yards is a 9 iron or PW for me?

I would suspect that a Committee could surmise that is against the rule of giving advice. No problem for you, as you didn't solicit his advice. But if you just happen to see what he used, thait isn't a problem for either one of you.

See attached rule:

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-08/

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Thanks again.  One other silly question that I expect NOT to happen in a tournament.  It did happen yesterday though in a casual round.  A friendly stranger I was playing with hit his tee shot on a par 3 onto the green and while the next guy was hitting showed me his club.  He didn't say "I hit a 7-wood there and it was the perfect distance," he just pointed the bottom of the club at me so I could see exactly what it was, then said "bought this used the other day for $15."  His intent wasn't to give advice, just to show me how proud he was that he got what he thought was such an awesome club for such a good deal.  However, pointing the club at me like that would also serve the same purpose as saying "I hit a 7 wood there."  So actually, 3 questions:

1.  Is what he did illegal?

2.  If it is illegal, yet I was the only person that saw it, can I ignore it or am I obligated to call him on it?

3.  Does the fact that he and I are clearly not of the same skill level factor in at all?  In other words, how can it be considered advice if a guy tells me he hits a 7 wood 140 yards when a) I don't even carry a 7 wood, and b) 140 yards is a 9 iron or PW for me?

1.  Maybe

2.  In a stroke competition, each player has a responsibility to protect the field if you see what you feel is a breach.  As such, yes, you have an obligation to call him on it.  In a match, you do not have to call him, but if you do then the hole is finished.  The moment he spoke, he lost the hole.

3.  This is a difficult one.  It may come down to the situation and the intent.  Did he do it to influence you?  It doesn't matter that you don't carry a 7W.  He could be trying to mislead you into playing a longer club than you normally would.  If it was clearly done with no intent other than showing off his great deal, then it I'd still caution him about it, and suggest that we might still have to take it to the committee before he returns his card.

[jgreen85]

Originally Posted by Gridiron

Do

Use Google Earth to plan your round.  The measuring tool on Google Earth combined with the satellite imagery allow you to pre-plan what clubs you want to hit to give you preferred yardages into greens.  You can also find your aiming points ahead of time.  For me, this takes a lot of thinking out of the equation as on every tee I know what I want to play and why.  I might have to make small adjustments based on the wind direction/speed for that day but it was so much easier to walk up to the tee and look in my yardage book to see my notes "3 wood at 2nd bunker on the left" know that it was the right club/yardage and just proceed to confidently hit the shot.  A lot less thinking of "how far is that bunker? will I reach it? how far will that leave me to go....3 wood...driver...."

Of course the other part is once you make the plan, stick to it.

When you say "look at my yardage book", what does your yardage book look like. I took your advice and mapped out my next tournament (this Sunday). I was just going to write the info down on a notecard and stick it in my pocket. Do you have something more than just a list?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by jgreen85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gridiron

Do

Use Google Earth to plan your round.  The measuring tool on Google Earth combined with the satellite imagery allow you to pre-plan what clubs you want to hit to give you preferred yardages into greens.  You can also find your aiming points ahead of time.  For me, this takes a lot of thinking out of the equation as on every tee I know what I want to play and why.  I might have to make small adjustments based on the wind direction/speed for that day but it was so much easier to walk up to the tee and look in my yardage book to see my notes "3 wood at 2nd bunker on the left" know that it was the right club/yardage and just proceed to confidently hit the shot.  A lot less thinking of "how far is that bunker? will I reach it? how far will that leave me to go....3 wood...driver...."

Of course the other part is once you make the plan, stick to it.

When you say "look at my yardage book", what does your yardage book look like. I took your advice and mapped out my next tournament (this Sunday). I was just going to write the info down on a notecard and stick it in my pocket. Do you have something more than just a list?

Also a plan has to be dynamic.  You can't make a plan written in stone because golf doesn't work that way.  Even the pros don't hit every shot as planned, and the rest of us certainly don't.  You have to be ready to modify it on the fly.  That is why I prefer my Garmin GPS.  I can get that same info, just as fast, and revise the plan even faster when my tee shot doesn't go anywhere near in the direction of that bunker. And unlike your book, it's just as effective on a course I've never seen before.

[jgreen85]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Also a plan has to be dynamic.  You can't make a plan written in stone because golf doesn't work that way.  Even the pros don't hit every shot as planned, and the rest of us certainly don't.  You have to be ready to modify it on the fly.  That is why I prefer my Garmin GPS.  I can get that same info, just as fast, and revise the plan even faster when my tee shot doesn't go anywhere near in the direction of that bunker.   And unlike your book, it's just as effective on a course I've never seen before.

Obviously the plan is dynamic. I envision this being like an NFL team that scripts its first 15 plays. Despite the script, if plays 1 and 2 leave the team with 3rd and 15, I doubt play #3 is designed to pick up 15 yards.

I do know that people have a limited information processing capacity. This planning can help someone process the course information at a high level. One benefit I see is that I'll be able to determine which holes I want to be aggressive on and which I need to be conservative. Also, after analyzing the course, I recognized that if I can hit my tee shot 236 in the fairway on every hole, I'll have an approach shot with a club I feel comfortable with. This gives me confidence heading to the course that I never will need to try kill the ball.

It seems that a lot of the advice in this thread is centered around: be confident, have fun, and relax. This planning gave me a shot of confidence, that's for sure.

One complaint about google earth, is that I don't see how altitude. The course I'll be playing is in the mountains, so I imagine there will be changes in altitude. If google earth has that, I can then research to see how much altitude provides how much extra distance.

[Gridiron]

Originally Posted by jgreen85

When you say "look at my yardage book", what does your yardage book look like. I took your advice and mapped out my next tournament (this Sunday). I was just going to write the info down on a notecard and stick it in my pocket. Do you have something more than just a list?

No, nothing more.  Just a list.  I just keep it in my yardage book holder.  Actually, I don't use a yardage book but it's where I keep this list, my aimpoint chart and then the scorecard.

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Also a plan has to be dynamic.  You can't make a plan written in stone because golf doesn't work that way.  Even the pros don't hit every shot as planned, and the rest of us certainly don't.  You have to be ready to modify it on the fly.  That is why I prefer my Garmin GPS.  I can get that same info, just as fast, and revise the plan even faster when my tee shot doesn't go anywhere near in the direction of that bunker.   And unlike your book, it's just as effective on a course I've never seen before.

Absolutely it's dynamic.  I use a SkyCaddie myself but it is just one less thing to think about when I am in a tournament.  It is really just about planning the tee shot.  After that you are right, you have to deal with what you have.  I also don't do it for the par 3's as who knows where the pin might be.  I do think the pro's know what club they want to hit on just about every tee before they start the round.  Hence Jim Furyk in the US open and not being "prepared" for that shorter tee shot.  He obviously had some sort of plan ahead of time and that shorter tee box wasn't in it and it messed him up.  The plan has to deal with the fact that maybe you are on a different tee block than you planned for, or maybe the wind is in your face or whatever.  Tiger all through the British Open spoke about sticking to the plan.  Adam Scott, if he had a plan, shouldn't have included hitting driver on the last hole, that was dumb and it may have cost him the title as he hit it too far and ended up in the bunker.  Obviously, there is something to it if they do it.  Then again, it won't be for everyone.  If I can save myself thinking for just 5 seconds on every tee block about what shot to hit and where and rather spend that time thinking about the shot I am going hit, that helps me.  It also gives me 100% confidence that I have made the right choice, I just have to hit the shot.

Originally Posted by jgreen85

Obviously the plan is dynamic. I envision this being like an NFL team that scripts its first 15 plays. Despite the script, if plays 1 and 2 leave the team with 3rd and 15, I doubt play #3 is designed to pick up 15 yards.

I do know that people have a limited information processing capacity. This planning can help someone process the course information at a high level. One benefit I see is that I'll be able to determine which holes I want to be aggressive on and which I need to be conservative. Also, after analyzing the course, I recognized that if I can hit my tee shot 236 in the fairway on every hole, I'll have an approach shot with a club I feel comfortable with. This gives me confidence heading to the course that I never will need to try kill the ball.

It seems that a lot of the advice in this thread is centered around: be confident, have fun, and relax. This planning gave me a shot of confidence, that's for sure.

One complaint about google earth, is that I don't see how altitude. The course I'll be playing is in the mountains, so I imagine there will be changes in altitude. If google earth has that, I can then research to see how much altitude provides how much extra distance.

Exactly jgreen.  It is so much easier to make clear choices the night/day before.  In the moment it's too easy to get caught up in "hit the driver" or whatever club and you end up in trouble.  The toughest part is getting on the tee and sticking to that conservative shot that you knew the day before was the right play.  Sometimes you just want to scratch that itch and it takes a little dicipline to hit that smart shot under tournament pressures.   As for altitude, look along the bottom of the screen, you will see lat/long as well as the altitude of the spot your cursor is on.

[wadesworld]

Originally Posted by bigwave916

It's not the worst $500 I ever spent, but on golf equipment it's a new personal record for "stupid"

It's still useful for casual rounds and perhaps even club tournaments (check with your club pro).  Just can't use it for serious tournaments.