Let's Change a Bad Rule - Win = Honors

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by mdl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucki1968

I think if we need to change any rule, it should be the stroke and distance rule on the out of bounds shot. I think it slows play down too much.

Guess we don't need a big discussion of this again, but I've changed on this rule and kind of go back and forth now. On the plus side, it opens up differing levels of danger available to course designers and rules committees.  I played at a course recently where some super tight fairways had what reasonably could be called OB all up one side but it was marked as environmental hazard to not make the hole totally killer for everyone who didn't hit a perfect tee shot, but then other areas on holes where you could definitely miss there but your choice wasn't hit a tee shot within 10 yards of your aim point or tee off again with your 3rd shot, and those areas were marked as OB.  Also, I'd guess that well more than a majority of the amateurs I've played with play pretty much everything as a water hazard anyway, whether marked with white or red or red and green stakes, so maybe it doesn't slow down play as much as you might fear?

On the other hand, I've definitely played with or been stuck behind guys who just use the "provisional" to hit as many drives as they want, basically feeling free to take a bunch of time for pace killing on-course practice, until they hit the fairway or at least miss to the opposite side of OB, then feel free to pretend that was their first tee shot.  And even honest provisional taking can really be a pace killer when playing with not very good but serious players so you've got 5-6 tee shots and an extra approach or two on lots of holes.

Plus, I recognize the argument for more serious penalization for fully hitting the ball off the course, but to me it tends to feel pretty arbitrary as to when I get to take a next shot that gives me at least a reasonable chance of sitting 3 near the green, if not on it, so a 1-putt gets me par and an up and down saves bogey, versus when the best I can hope for is a good next tee shot and to be sitting 3 at standard approach distance, where I have to stick a full iron super close just to have a good chance of saving bogey.

Sorry, but his has nothing to do with the original post.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nleary9201

Ok, I'm done with this one. I may have changed a few minds and made a few of you think outside the box a little. In the end, if winning the previous hole is only an order of play issue, why can't the winner defer, just like players 3 or 4 in the foursome? That would be the best solution.  I'll be back to get everyone's knickers in a bunch with the next one soon. Thanks for listening.

I don't think you changed anyone's minds.

And players 3 and 4 can't "defer" either. They have to play in the same order - best score first, next best score second, next one is third, and the worst is last. Of course, that's in stroke play. In match play there are only two sides (often each side is one player, but in team events the entire first team goes before the entire second team).

Originally Posted by David in FL

I just reread the entire thread and I don't see anyone's mind having been changed.

Sorry, I think you're still pretty much on your own on this one!

Yeah, this.

And OB is OT. :)

[rehmwa]

Originally Posted by carrx

I may be in the minority here, but I disagree with the above post.  Having the honors is absolutely an advantage in a match play format.

And I think you are goofy to make an absolute statement on something that clearly depends on the mindset and preferences of each player.

[bubble]

in many sport if you win the last action you start the next (serving for example).

I'm ok with honors.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Keep in mind that my golf was played in Colorado at more than 5000 feet elevation.  210 yards was a 22° hybrid for me at the time, actually a very doable shot, but the hazard I'd just dropped out of continued the entire length of the hole, passing less than 10 yards right of the green.  Left of the green were some mounds which would kick your ball farther left under some small trees.  Any error on my shot and I put him right back in the hole.  But if I had needed to try the hybrid, it was a doable shot.  Again, it was a situational strategy.  I've had many a match turn on that hole.  The course has 3 or 4 holes which can become man to man rather than man to course just based on how the players manage the hole.

This is one of the reasons that I love match play.  It's a dynamic form of play, and anyone who doesn't consider what his opponent is doing during the match isn't usually going to have a lot of success.  I've played some good rounds during matches, and beaten my opponent on strokes, but still lost the match because he managed a few key holes better than I did by playing off my mistakes, or in one case taking the hero shot because he needed it and pulling it off.  In match play, all you need is to take fewer strokes than your opponent on more holes than he takes fewer than you.  You don't need to make par, you don't need to make bogey, you just need to take fewer strokes than he takes.

To me that doesn't mean going into a match with an ultra conservative or an ultra aggressive approach, only that I'm ready to modify my strategy according to the needs of the moment.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.  I think it is always the best strategy to make the course management decisions which give you the best chance of optimizing your score.  There is too much variability in what I might do or my opponent might do as the hole plays out.

[GolfFanatic]

Rules are there to make it fair.  This rule is a good way to decide the order of play. It works and should not be changed.

So one guy like "you" doesn't always go last because he wants to.

I believe going first is a slight disadvantage especially on par threes when were playing greenies. I like to know what I have to beat.

If it really is a disadvantage then it serves to even out the match.  the guy who just won the hole has to go first and may give a slight advantage to the guy who just lost the hole.

Quit whining and play by the rules that have worked for hundreds of years.