How to handle slow players?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

Dave and I shared a caddie and played the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island (back tees, except the few that were closed) in less than four hours.

LOL.  Problem is that between the two of you, you hit the ball 150-ish times, whereas a foursome of regular guys would be somewhere in the vicinity of 380 or so.  That's an increase of 150%!  Additionally, I'm guessing that Kiawah wasn't packed when you guys played, and that Myrtle is probably referring to courses that are busy.

Nobody should dispute that a foursome can finish a round at an open course in 4 hours or less.  Just that it seems reasonable to have a goal of between 4 hours and 4:30 on busier courses.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/65700/] [/URL] Dave and I shared a caddie and played the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island (back tees, except the few that were closed) in less than four hours.

Lol, yeah, a twosome with an empty course, sure. I can play 18 holes by myself in under 2 hours. But I'm talking a foursome, on a full course, during a normal day. Do you know why it takes me 4.75 hours to play a round of golf? Because the group in front of me takes 4.75 hours to play 18. And the group in front of them. I can only move as fast as the group that's holding me up. And that is NEVER under 4 hours. I've played 20 rounds here since September, and I can promise you not a single one of them was under 4 hours. If I was playing as a twosome, with no one holding us up, of course we would finish under 3 hours.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

I have a 12:44pm tee-time on Tuesday. It's just a threesome, with the other 2 guys being better than me. One is a 10 handicap, while the other (who does not have an official USGA index) is probably more like 7 or 8. In a perfect scenario where no one is in front of us, we would obviously finish well under 4 hours. I'll take precise note of our start and finish time, but I can't see a way where we possibly finish before 5pm. It will be dark by 5:15.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Additionally, I'm guessing that Kiawah wasn't packed when you guys played, and that Myrtle is probably referring to courses that are busy.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Lol, yeah, a twosome with an empty course, sure. I can play 18 holes by myself in under 2 hours. But I'm talking a foursome, on a full course, during a normal day.

Hey, don't go by my words ... I said I was guessing that the course was slow (based on his pictures :))  See for yourself ... http://thesandtrap.com/b/pga/a_vacation_on_kiawah_island

Of course, the picture taking might have slowed them down, as well as their gem of a caddy. ;)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Nobody should dispute that a foursome can finish a round at an open course in 4 hours or less.  Just that it seems reasonable to have a goal of between 4 hours and 4:30 on busier courses.

That's my only point. He's making it sound though that you can't get around a difficult course in 4 hours.

I've played in a foursome at Oakmont, a threesome at Oakland Hills, and several other very difficult courses and finished them all in under four hours. We were done on the Old Course in less than four as well and they pack them in there as much as they can, and I was the only guy in the group to break 75, or 85, or 95...

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Do you know why it takes me 4.75 hours to play a round of golf? Because the group in front of me takes 4.75 hours to play 18. And the group in front of them. I can only move as fast as the group that's holding me up. And that is NEVER under 4 hours. I've played 20 rounds here since September, and I can promise you not a single one of them was under 4 hours.

If I was playing as a twosome, with no one holding us up, of course we would finish under 3 hours.

There were others there when we played. Dan Marino and Darius Rucker were two holes ahead of us.

And THOSE people don't have to take 4.75 hours to play either.

Again, you made it sound as if the difficulty of the course (" I would really love to see these courses you guys claim to finish in under 4 hours? They do not exist in this 'neck of the woods'.") made it impossible to play in under 4 hours. I'm here to tell you that's not the case. You seem to agree based on your later comments, so... good. We agree. :)

[Golfingdad]

I've played in a foursome at Oakmont, a threesome at Oakland Hills, ..... Old Course in less than four ... and I was the only guy in the group to break 75, or 85, .... Dan Marino and Darius Rucker

Showoff ;)

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

I wasn't commenting on the difficulty at all. My apologies if it came across that way. Many of the courses around here are more 'resort' courses and set up so that vacationers can have a nice round of golf without struggling all day. Some are, but most are not overly difficult. Its just very unlikely you can play 18 holes here in under 4 hours. There are always groups holding you up. No matter the time of day or time of year. I don't know if the players on vacation are just taking their sweet time, BECAUSE they are on vacation and have no where to be. Almost every course requires carts, so slow walking isn't the issue. Although days when the rule is cart path only really slows down things. It makes it much slower than walking. Difficulty of the course isn't the issue here, nor was it my point. I guess it's just the clientele. I've played hundreds of rounds in this town in the last 15 years. If you can finish in under 4 hours, you have been blessed by the golf gods.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I wasn't commenting on the difficulty at all. My apologies if it came across that way. Many of the courses around here are more 'resort' courses and set up so that vacationers can have a nice round of golf without struggling all day. Some are, but most are not overly difficult.

It did, yes. I see now you meant to say that it's more the types of players that happen to play your courses, not the courses themselves.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

It did, yes. I see now you meant to say that it's more the types of players that happen to play your courses, not the courses themselves.

Well, the courses play into it as well, but not from a difficulty factor. What I think it goes back to is $$$$. Obviously being a resort golf destination, the courses are trying to make as much money as possible, especially in the peak golf seasons here. They pack the courses, double tee, and have 6, 7 or 8 minute intervals for tee times. Jamming the courses full of players certainly does not help the pace of play.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Lol, yeah, a twosome with an empty course, sure. I can play 18 holes by myself in under 2 hours. But I'm talking a foursome, on a full course, during a normal day.

Do you know why it takes me 4.75 hours to play a round of golf? Because the group in front of me takes 4.75 hours to play 18. And the group in front of them. I can only move as fast as the group that's holding me up. And that is NEVER under 4 hours. I've played 20 rounds here since September, and I can promise you not a single one of them was under 4 hours.

If I was playing as a twosome, with no one holding us up, of course we would finish under 3 hours.

You've just proved the point.  Somewhere ahead of you there was a 4-some playing at a 4.75 pace who could have played faster.  If they played at 4:00 then the group behind them could have played in 4:00.  And the group behind THEM could have pl ayed in 4:00.  Etc.  .  If you can play in 4 hours then all the other 4-somes can as well.  If you all play at a 4:00 pace then everyone finishes in 4:00.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

You've just proved the point.  Somewhere ahead of you there was a 4-some playing at a 4.75 pace who could have played faster.  If they played at 4:00 then the group behind them could have played in 4:00.  And the group behind THEM could have pl ayed in 4:00.  Etc.  .  If you can play in 4 hours then all the other 4-somes can as well.  If you all play at a 4:00 pace then everyone finishes in 4:00.

Lol, yes. I'm not suggesting it's physically impossible to play 18 holes in under 4 hours. I would have no problems finishing in well under 4 hours if there wasn't groups holding me up. What I'm saying is that it's quite unlikely to find any courses in this area ("in my neck of the woods") where you are going to find a round of golf where you aren't going to be held up by other players, and where you can finish in under 4 hours. It just doesn't happen here. I'm 34 years old, am a former college basketball player, and in good shape. I do a very good job of keeping the ball in play, and am actually a fast golfer. I don't take much time pacing off yardage, taking multiple practice swings, reading putts, or changing clubs. I have no issue finishing a round in under 4 hours, IF I'm not being held up by a slow moving, over-crowded golf course. I envy those of you who can finish in under 4 hours. I usually have to get to work after my round. I don't have 5+ hours to spend on the golf course. Unfortunately, in this town, 90% of the golfers are on vacation, and have no where to be. And they play golf LIKE they have no where to be.

[Tom Shanks]

I think courses could be a little smarter about the first hole. One local I play starts with a short par 5 at 490yds. So you have the average guys waiting to hit their approach shots as the old timers hit their 4th then putt out and the guys who can get there in 2 are waiting on the average guys to hit their 3rd then putt out. If it happens to be all old timers it's not uncommon to see 4 foursomes on the hole at once. On the flip side, another course starts with a driveable par 4 that's reachable due to the teebox elevation. There is always at least one guy (usually me) that's gonna go for it. So now you have to wait for group ahead to finish up before you even tee off and then hope you don't embarass yourself. Only good thing about this is you get a huge gap in groups after the first tee.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Lol, yes. I'm not suggesting it's physically impossible to play 18 holes in under 4 hours. I would have no problems finishing in well under 4 hours if there wasn't groups holding me up. What I'm saying is that it's quite unlikely to find any courses in this area ("in my neck of the woods") where you are going to find a round of golf where you aren't going to be held up by other players, and where you can finish in under 4 hours. It just doesn't happen here.

I'm 34 years old, am a former college basketball player, and in good shape. I do a very good job of keeping the ball in play, and am actually a fast golfer. I don't take much time pacing off yardage, taking multiple practice swings, reading putts, or changing clubs. I have no issue finishing a round in under 4 hours, IF I'm not being held up by a slow moving, over-crowded golf course.

I envy those of you who can finish in under 4 hours. I usually have to get to work after my round. I don't have 5+ hours to spend on the golf course. Unfortunately, in this town, 90% of the golfers are on vacation, and have no where to be. And they play golf LIKE they have no where to be.

In that case it is hard to understand how Myrtle Beach has become such a golfing destination.  I haven't had a round of golf take as much as 4 hours in months.  3-1/2 hours is more normal here.  For example, last Saturday I went out as the last group in a 9:00 AM shotgun where there was an A and B group on each tee (they do this because of frost earlier in the morning).  It was a small shotgun with groups on 1, 18, 17, 16, and 15, probably 32-35 players altogether..  I was in group 15B, a three-ball.  15A was a 4-ball directly ahead of us.  We teed off about 9:08, when the 4-ball was out of range, and were done before 12:30.  We weren't rushing at all, pretty much playing normal order of play, not "ready" golf.

The course I mostly play is not super difficult but neither is it a pushover (70.5/121 from the tees I play).  I guess I am just lucky to be where I am.

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by iacas

We were done on the Old Course in less than four as well and they pack them in there as much as they can, and I was the only guy in the group to break 75, or 85, or 95...

I spent 7 days in Scotland 3 years ago with a colleague and played 10 rounds of golf at 7 different golf courses (one of which also included the Old Course) and had only one round over 4.25hrs. All of the courses were relatively busy when I played.

Someone earlier mentioned Golf course design as a culprit to slow play, which, I somewhat agree with.  However, the biggest contributor to slow play in my opinion is our golf culture over here.  When I was in Scotland, I saw MANY 15-25 handicaps who hit crooked shots as well as the next mid to high handicap WHIP around the golf course.  The funny thing is I didn't see a single person on a golf cart when I was in Scotland and rounds were averaging between the 3.5 to 4.25hr range steady.

The point is, the Golf culture is different over there and they get it.  Our Golf culture here sucks and it's what we need to fix.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Tom Shanks

On the flip side, another course starts with a driveable par 4 that's reachable due to the teebox elevation. There is always at least one guy (usually me) that's gonna go for it. So now you have to wait for group ahead to finish up before you even tee off and then hope you don't embarass yourself. Only good thing about this is you get a huge gap in groups after the first tee.

This is fantastic ... should almost force the course to spread out the tee time schedules (10 minutes at least) such that you have enough time to finish the hole before the next group tees off, because that is frequently what is going to happen anyway.

Or maybe they make you wave up the following group if they know somebody is going for it?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by turtleback

In that case it is hard to understand how Myrtle Beach has become such a golfing destination.  I haven't had a round of golf take as much as 4 hours in months.  3-1/2 hours is more normal here.  For example, last Saturday I went out as the last group in a 9:00 AM shotgun where there was an A and B group on each tee (they do this because of frost earlier in the morning).  It was a small shotgun with groups on 1, 18, 17, 16, and 15, probably 32-35 players altogether..  I was in group 15B, a three-ball.  15A was a 4-ball directly ahead of us.  We teed off about 9:08, when the 4-ball was out of range, and were done before 12:30.  We weren't rushing at all, pretty much playing normal order of play, not "ready" golf.

The course I mostly play is not super difficult but neither is it a pushover (70.5/121 from the tees I play).  I guess I am just lucky to be where I am.

Here?  In Socal?  What courses are you playing?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

The point is, the Golf culture is different over there and they get it.  Our Golf culture here sucks and it's what we need to fix.

Bingo.

The "240 Golf" thing Steve is pitching here is an attempt to change that. In Scotland, you're a prick if you are a slow player. Over here, people are both unaware of how slow they really are, and those who are act entitled and confrontational when called out on it, when really they should just be thought of as pricks and dealt with as such.

[Tom Shanks]

Just a thought. Why doesn't someone make a poll to determine the ideal time people would like to finish in a foursome? I've had 2 1/2 hour rounds and I've had 5 hour rounds. 4 is the magic numer for me.