Beginner advice needed on selecting a full set of new clubs

[Watermark]

Excellent! The earlier clarifications by "GolfingDad" and this detailed follow-up summary of yours (Hacker101) are both awesome! Thank you both for that!

Honestly, I've learned so-so much this past few days, its nothing short of amazing. I've assembled a comprehensive spreadsheet of all the various parameters per club type, including the various offerings by different manufacturers, so I feel better-than-ever about my knowledge base now, going into a fitting (despite being a beginner). And yes, we do in-fact have a Roger Dunn store here locally, so I think I'm well on my way now. In fact, I think I know enough at this point to effectively close this thread.

I'm sure that I'll post some additional questions in different threads here down the road, as I begin to learn and experience more out on the lawn, but until then, my sincere thanks to all who participated and contributed here, and thanks also for making the entire learning process so enjoyable. Its been instructive and great-great fun!

All the Best

Watermark

[acedl]

Personally, I would go with PING and get fitted for all your clubs. No need to go with the latest model. You can get into some G20's for alot cheaper then G25's.  They will not let you walk out of their pro shop with the wrong ping clubs.

I vote for PING Irons, Woods and Driver if you want Titliest Vokey Wedges, 52, 56 ( a 60 is hard to hit, but I typically play it most rounds)

The Driver is really what you hit well, I have a G20

Putter your choice, I have Ping B60

I would 100% get fitted to your clubs by a PING fitter. They will adjust clubs and also PING will repair any broken clubs. I would hate to see someone not have the right clubs and be frustrated with the game. You will spend roughly $500-800 dollars, but no need to go with the latest greatest. I have Ping G5 Black dot irons, love them. G15 3 Hybrid, G15 3 Wood, and G20 Driver, Titleist Wedges and a Ping putter.

Also the AD-333 srixon ball is great, now the srixon q-star. Starting out though you may want a softer ball, and I would pay close attention to shaft flex based on swing speed now and 5 years from now. Also take a few lessons and the driving range is key!

[Watermark]

Well, I completed a custom fitting today, which helped to answer a lot of questions for me, but I have to admit, even after the fitting, I'm still a bit confused about the driver.

I like the 460 cc Taylormade (Rbz) and Cobra (Amp Cell) drivers, but I couldn't get a good feel from the guys there at the golf shop as to whether I should be using a 'regular' or 'stiff' shaft?  To me, regardless of whether the driver was TM or Cobra, both shafts (graphite in each case) felt about the same in terms of flex, and consequently, I just didn't feel good about making a purchase. Same applies to the Cobra adjustable #4/5 wood.

Perhaps someone here can help with this decision? What does the typical 6'2" (240 lb.) male beginner require in terms of shaft stiffness or flex on a driver, 'stiff' or 'regular'? All other things being equal, if I don't feel any real difference between them, which of the two should I opt for, and why?

Thanx

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Watermark

Well, I completed a custom fitting today, which helped to answer a lot of questions for me, but I have to admit, even after the fitting, I'm still a bit confused about the driver.

I like the 460 cc Taylormade (Rbz) and Cobra (Amp Cell) drivers, but I couldn't get a good feel from the guys there at the golf shop as to whether I should be using a 'regular' or 'stiff' shaft?  To me, regardless of whether the driver was TM or Cobra, both shafts (graphite in each case) felt about the same in terms of flex, and consequently, I just didn't feel good about making a purchase. Same applies to the Cobra adjustable #4/5 wood.

Perhaps someone here can help with this decision? What does the typical 6'2" (240 lb.) male beginner require in terms of shaft stiffness or flex on a driver, 'stiff' or 'regular'? All other things being equal, if I don't feel any real difference between them, which of the two should I opt for, and why?

Thanx

I'm pretty surprised they wouldn't have gotten into the shaft part of the equation with you.  Did you get any information from them about your swing?  Do you know what you swing speed is with a driver?  That is really the most basic determining factor - I think - for determining shaft flex.  Size definitely doesn't have anything to do with it.

[Watermark]

Nope, it was awfully hectic in there today, so I didn't come away with much, and they didn't have the Cobra driver or #4 wood in regular or stiff in-stock in the silver color that I wanted anyway. So I think I'll go back again during the work-week, when its a lot slower, just to see if I can get a better fitting/assessment before moving forward. And from what I understand, a lot of guys apparently prefer to play 'up' in stiffness when they can - that is to say that they apparently strive to move up from 'regular' flex to 'stiff', so presumably, if I start-out with 'stiff' it won't be a serious impediment.

However, the trip wasn't entirely wasted - I gained a fair bit of knowledge about putters and drivers, and perhaps most importantly, I think I've been permanently swayed-away from the fancier MP-69 irons in favor of the more practical (but just as nice) MP-H4s. I was really impressed with the MP-H4s.

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by Watermark

Well, I completed a custom fitting today, which helped to answer a lot of questions for me, but I have to admit, even after the fitting, I'm still a bit confused about the driver.

I like the 460 cc Taylormade (Rbz) and Cobra (Amp Cell) drivers, but I couldn't get a good feel from the guys there at the golf shop as to whether I should be using a 'regular' or 'stiff' shaft?  To me, regardless of whether the driver was TM or Cobra, both shafts (graphite in each case) felt about the same in terms of flex, and consequently, I just didn't feel good about making a purchase. Same applies to the Cobra adjustable #4/5 wood.

Perhaps someone here can help with this decision? What does the typical 6'2" (240 lb.) male beginner require in terms of shaft stiffness or flex on a driver, 'stiff' or 'regular'? All other things being equal, if I don't feel any real difference between them, which of the two should I opt for, and why?

Thanx

Like Golfingdad I can't imagine a full custom fitting that doesn't address which shafts are most suitable for you.

At the moment you seem to have a good deal of information about clubs, shafts, lofts, lies etc. But you don't have any real information on your swing. And that's because you can't, because you haven't developed it yet. So you're trying to fit clubs to something that you don't and can't know very well.

The clubs fit the swing, not the golfer. It's not like clothes where you can take measurements and get a perfect fitting. Sure your height, arm length etc will have a bearing on your fitting but it's only a part of the picture. You can fit clubs based on that part of the picture but it's a pretty rough science.

This is why people were advocating used clubs earlier, because you can spend some time with them, develop your swing a bit and then go and get the full fitting. If you get fit now there is a reasonable chance that not far down the line you'll realise that your set is not really what you want/need and you might need to go through the whole process again.

If cost isn't really a big issue to you, then sure go get a brand new set of clubs and if you have to change in 3 months then no worries. But I think the best thing you can do right now is find some regular flex clubs that feel comfortable to you (length, lie) and go out there and start playing. And then getting fit will be a much less confusing process because you'll know what you don't like about your current clubs, and thus what you want out of a new set.

[solarbear]

I am a pretty avid weight lifter and quite strong and prefer regular. I weigh just over 100kg. I like the way they load. They feel smoother nad effortless. So size and strength are not the only factors. I think a lot of blokes with stiff are fooling themselves and buying based off ego. Adive would be to buy wgat works for you.

[Watermark]

Thanks for the continued feedback here, guys.

Honestly, starting off as a complete beginner with a 'regular' flex (vs. 'stiff') shaft just makes more sense to me on its face, because I imagine it would be a bit more forgiving and perhaps even add some distance for someone who's swing has not yet been perfected. Anyway, I'm going to go back down there this week sometime and try a different golf shop altogether to see what happens, and I'll follow-up from there. So thanks again.

Oh, and by the way, just so everyone knows, I took a good look at the Ping G20s and G25s the other day, some of which had steel shafts while others were graphite, but competitively speaking, the pricing on them was all that great (at least not here locally), and they simply didn't feel as good to me as the MP-64s and other Mizzy's. However, after researching it a bit further, it doesn't that the Mizuno model MP-H4 irons that I mentioned above, get much love here on The San Trap or anywhere else. In fact, it appears that they're a model of club that I should probably stay far away from, and so, its back to the drawing board for me on that score. ;-)

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by Watermark

Thanks for the continued feedback here, guys.

Honestly, starting off as a complete beginner with a 'regular' flex (vs. 'stiff') shaft just makes more sense to me on its face, because I imagine it would be a bit more forgiving and perhaps even add some distance for someone who's swing has not yet been perfected. Anyway, I'm going to go back down there this week sometime and try a different golf shop altogether to see what happens, and I'll follow-up from there. So thanks again.

Oh, and by the way, just so everyone knows, I took a good look at the Ping G20s and G25s the other day, some of which had steel shafts while others were graphite, but competitively speaking, the pricing on them was all that great (at least not here locally), and they simply didn't feel as good to me as the MP-64s and other Mizzy's. However, after researching it a bit further, it doesn't that the Mizuno model MP-H4 irons that I mentioned above, get much love here on The San Trap or anywhere else. In fact, it appears that they're a model of club that I should probably stay far away from, and so, its back to the drawing board for me on that score. ;-)

Shafts don't really provide forgiveness, the club head does. So if you want more forgiveness steer away from clubs like the MP-64s and look at clubs like Mizuno's JPX range.

Golf is a hard game to learn, but clubs like the Mizuno MP-64s are not "higher quality" that are going to help you improve faster. They're just a club that is designed to fit a certain profile of ball striker, one almost exclusively found amongst the lower handicap players. Note that Ping's G series irons have been played by Tour players, so low handicap doesn't always correlate with a profile that suits blade type clubs.

Getting clubs that don't suit you won't be an absolute disaster, but why wouldn't you want to get the best result you possibly can when you put a good swing on the ball?

[Watermark]

Yup, I knew that was comin', almost as soon as I used the word "forgiveness" - just a poor choice of words I guess. In a round-about way, what I meant to say (without having to write a 1000-word dissertation) was this . . . that if experienced (veteran) players tend to move-up from 'regular' flex to 'stiff' flex shafts as they become better or more skilled, as they often report (rather than the other way around), then it stands to reason that regardless of one's age, gender, height, weight, power, and maybe even regardless of the results of a custom fitting, a 'regular' (not stiff) shaft might be "best" (overall) for an absolute beginner? That's essentially what I was trying to ask or say.

As for the MP-64s and Mizuno's in general and their suitability for beginners, there's literally going to be dozens of opinions on this subject and the various models, no matter what any of us prefers or says, but the bottom line is this . . . I'm simply not good with spending hours of my time in fittings and developing a custom order (for length and lie), and spending $600 or $650 for Pings vs. $750 for Mizunos, just because the latter might be harder to hit for the first few months?!@#%&? This makes no sense to me and my schedule simply doesn't allow for it. I'd rather get it all done now, with as good an iron as possible, now, and suck for 6-12 months, than have to revisit all of this again in just a few short weeks or months, leaving that complete and first (but lesser quality) set of irons un-used in the garage somewhere. It might not be the optimum approach, and it might not be the most cost-effective approach, but doing otherwise makes zero sense to me.

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by Watermark

Yup, I knew that was comin', almost as soon as I used the word "forgiveness" - just a poor choice of words I guess. In a round-about way, what I meant to say (without having to write a 1000-word dissertation) was this . . . that if experienced (veteran) players tend to move-up from 'regular' flex to 'stiff' flex shafts as they become better or more skilled, as they often report (rather than the other way around), then it stands to reason that regardless of one's age, gender, height, weight, power, and maybe even regardless of the results of a custom fitting, a 'regular' (not stiff) shaft might be "best" (overall) for an absolute beginner? That's essentially what I was trying to ask or say.

As for the MP-64s and Mizuno's in general and their suitability for beginners, there's literally going to be dozens of opinions on this subject and the various models, no matter what any of us prefers or says, but the bottom line is this . . . I'm simply not good with spending hours of my time in fittings and developing a custom order (for length and lie), and spending $600 or $650 for Pings vs. $750 for Mizunos, just because the latter might be harder to hit for the first few months?!@#%&? This makes no sense to me and my schedule simply doesn't allow for it. I'd rather get it all done now, with as good an iron as possible, now, and suck for 6-12 months, than have to revisit all of this again in just a few short weeks or months, leaving that complete and first (but lesser quality) set of irons un-used in the garage somewhere. It might not be the optimum approach, and it might not be the most cost-effective approach, but doing otherwise makes zero sense to me.

I'd recommend starting with regular just because we don't know what your swing will be like as it develops. That way at least you won't be too far off, if you go stiff and in reality would be best fit by senior then you're really going to struggle to get the best out of the clubs. And if you're really best suited by stiff shafts but get regular it's not the end of the world.

Mizuno produces some excellent clubs for beginners. Ping produces some excellent clubs for very skilled golfers (including tour players). You're just simply mistaken if you think a Mizuno MP-64 is somehow a "better" club than a Ping G25. The Mizunos aren't recommended for lower handicaps because they're better quality, and better players need better quality clubs, it's just that the swing/impact profile best suited to MP-64s is found almost exclusively in low handicap golfers. The swing/impact profile suited to G25s is much more broad due to the way they're designed, not their quality.

I play Mizunos irons, they're great clubs. But all the big brands produce great quality irons. Picking a brand is very much about personal preference, finding the right club within that brand is about matching your swing.

[Watermark]

Originally Posted by Mordan

1) I'd recommend starting with regular just because we don't know what your swing will be like as it develops. That way at least you won't be too far off, if you go stiff and in reality would be best fit by senior then you're really going to struggle to get the best out of the clubs. And if you're really best suited by stiff shafts but get regular it's not the end of the world.

2) Mizuno produces some excellent clubs for beginners. Ping produces some excellent clubs for very skilled golfers (including tour players). You're just simply mistaken if you think a Mizuno MP-64 is somehow a "better" club than a Ping G25. The Mizunos aren't recommended for lower handicaps because they're better quality, and better players need better quality clubs, it's just that the swing/impact profile best suited to MP-64s is found almost exclusively in low handicap golfers. The swing/impact profile suited to G25s is much more broad due to the way they're designed, not their quality.

3) I play Mizunos irons, they're great clubs. But all the big brands produce great quality irons. Picking a brand is very much about personal preference, finding the right club within that brand is about matching your swing.

1) Yup, I too happen to believe that regardless of the outcome of a fitting with respect to swing type or speed, it makes more sense for someone who is an absolute beginner, especially an aging beginner like me, to start-off with 'regular' (or perhaps even 'senior') flex, but with 'regular being the safest bet. Its just common sense.

2) I didn't mean to imply that all Ping irons were of lesser quality than Mizuno or that Mizuno was better-suited to pros. What I meant to say was that I (personally) preferred the look, weight, feel and swing of almost all Mizunos to the Ping G20, G25, i20 varieties of irons that I saw, and that the 64s and 69s in particular appeared to be of slightly superior craftsmanship. The comparably positioned or priced Ping's (at least to my eye) were of a fundamentally different design and too 'busy' in terms of graphics and gadgetry. However, I fully understand that this doesn't necessarily mean that the Mizuno brand makes the 'right' club for me (as a beginner) or even for many of the pros - I understand the distinctions.

3) I'm not quite sure what to make of this statement. To me, it certainly follows that most of the 'best' (i.e., most popular/most respected) irons are probably made by the 'big brands', but I'm not sure that all of the big brands make great irons. In other words, I'm not sure that all models of Pings are all models of Mizuno are necessarily of "great quality", and I'm not sure if that's even what you meant? But for me, at least based on what I've been learning, that grouping would probably be a little too inclusive. For example, Taylormade is a very well-recognized brand, perhaps one of the top 3 or 4 in all of golf (it was my father-in-laws favorite), and they certainly make irons including their high-end 'RocketBladez' which are hundreds more than the best Mizunos, yet you won't find a lotta love for RocketBladez out there. Don't ask me why, because to me and my amateur eye, they look and feel great! Who knows?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Watermark

1) Yup, I too happen to believe that regardless of the outcome of a fitting with respect to swing type or speed, it makes more sense for someone who is an absolute beginner, especially an aging beginner like me, to start-off with 'regular' (or perhaps even 'senior') flex, but with 'regular being the safest bet. Its just common sense.

2) I didn't mean to imply that all Ping irons were of lesser quality than Mizuno or that Mizuno was better-suited to pros. What I meant to say was that I (personally) preferred the look, weight, feel and swing of almost all Mizunos to the Ping G20, G25, i20 varieties of irons that I saw, and that the 64s and 69s in particular appeared to be of slightly superior craftsmanship. The comparably positioned or priced Ping's (at least to my eye) were of a fundamentally different design and too 'busy' in terms of graphics and gadgetry. However, I fully understand that this doesn't necessarily mean that the Mizuno brand makes the 'right' club for me (as a beginner) or even for many of the pros - I understand the distinctions.

3) I'm not quite sure what to make of this statement. To me, it certainly follows that most of the 'best' (i.e., most popular/most respected) irons are probably made by the 'big brands', but I'm not sure that all of the big brands make great irons. In other words, I'm not sure that all models of Pings are all models of Mizuno are necessarily of "great quality", and I'm not sure if that's even what you meant? But for me, at least based on what I've been learning, that grouping would probably be a little too inclusive. For example, Taylormade is a very well-recognized brand, perhaps one of the top 3 or 4 in all of golf (it was my father-in-laws favorite), and they certainly make irons including their high-end 'RocketBladez' which are hundreds more than the best Mizunos, yet you won't find a lotta love for RocketBladez out there. Don't ask me why, because to me and my amateur eye, they look and feel great! Who knows?

2)  Preference is very very important so if you don't like the way Ping looks, then by all means, don't buy them.  However, just remember that, at least in the case of the i20's, there's nothing "busy" about them at address.  I agree they have a lot more going on on the back and bottom of the club (and that goofy notch on the back of the hosel) but when you are standing over the ball you don't see any of that.

3)  Yes, that is exactly what he meant.  Quality is going to be high on any Mizuno, Titleist, Ping, Callaway, Taylor Made, etc, etc, as opposed to the clubs that are sold in box sets at walmart or target from more generic sporting good companies like Spalding or Voit or the like.

Lastly, to reiterate, if something looks and feels great to you, then that is what matters!

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by Watermark

2) I didn't mean to imply that all Ping irons were of lesser quality than Mizuno or that Mizuno was better-suited to pros. What I meant to say was that I (personally) preferred the look, weight, feel and swing of almost all Mizunos to the Ping G20, G25, i20 varieties of irons that I saw, and that the 64s and 69s in particular appeared to be of slightly superior craftsmanship. The comparably positioned or priced Ping's (at least to my eye) were of a fundamentally different design and too 'busy' in terms of graphics and gadgetry. However, I fully understand that this doesn't necessarily mean that the Mizuno brand makes the 'right' club for me (as a beginner) or even for many of the pros - I understand the distinctions.

3) I'm not quite sure what to make of this statement. To me, it certainly follows that most of the 'best' (i.e., most popular/most respected) irons are probably made by the 'big brands', but I'm not sure that all of the big brands make great irons. In other words, I'm not sure that all models of Pings are all models of Mizuno are necessarily of "great quality", and I'm not sure if that's even what you meant? But for me, at least based on what I've been learning, that grouping would probably be a little too inclusive. For example, Taylormade is a very well-recognized brand, perhaps one of the top 3 or 4 in all of golf (it was my father-in-laws favorite), and they certainly make irons including their high-end 'RocketBladez' which are hundreds more than the best Mizunos, yet you won't find a lotta love for RocketBladez out there. Don't ask me why, because to me and my amateur eye, they look and feel great! Who knows?

I too dislike busy clubs. But while the MP-64 and MP-69's craftsmanship may be superior from an aesthetic point of view, don't confuse that with some general superiority.

All I meant is that you'll be able to find the majority of iron sets being played on tour by someone, because they're all of high enough quality to be played at the very top level. In terms of raw performance there just isn't much difference because the rules dictate how well they can perform. Which is why the gains to be made in choosing a set of irons is around finding the right clubs to match your own swing. Which is why you need to get out there and start playing and developing your swing because as we don't really know what your swing is like, any iron set you buy now may turn out to be the wrong one in 3, 6, 9 months. If you really want to buy fitted clubs right now your best bet is to go for clubs targeted towards beginners because the odds are highest that they'll fit you at least for the next few years. But if you wait 6 months to get fitted clubs there's a much better chance that you'll be able to select something that you'll get a good few years out of. And in your first 6 months of golf you're not really going to notice the difference.

[Watermark]

Yup, many thanks Mordan! Word-for-word, what you've said here makes plenty of sense. I guess I need to rethink things and perhaps reshape my introductory conversations with sales people by asking " where are the better beginner's clubs " as opposed to " where's the best clubs ". Thanks again for the guidance. I should have a full and complete (better) fitting behind me by the weekend, which will help a lot, and then I'll proceed from there with the better beginners-grade irons.

[Mordan]

Yup, many thanks Mordan! Word-for-word, what you've said here makes plenty of sense. I guess I need to rethink things and perhaps reshape my introductory conversations with sales people by asking " where are the better beginner's clubs " as opposed to " where's the best clubs ". Thanks again for the guidance. I should have a full and complete (better) fitting behind me by the weekend, which will help a lot, and then I'll proceed from there with the better beginners-grade irons.

It's just a pity that no one makes game improvement clubs that look as good as Mizuno's MP line. Though I had some of their MX line clubs which is now called JPX and they were great clubs and the design isn't as over the top as some other brands.

[bukifvr]

I'm new to this site and having just scanned through this thread here is my  2 cents for Watermark.  First and most important is to take a few lessons from a Golf pro to learn the basics and fundamentals of a good golf swing.  Assuming you are playing with reasonably decent clubs, a good golf swing is far more important than the equipment you are playing with.  That said I appreciate your opinions about the importance of good quality equipment.  If you have the money and are willing to spend it, go ahead and get the best you can buy; however, just remember that the best clubs for you is really dependent upon your skill level and personal preferences.  When it comes to equipment, I think the most important thing is to get fitted by a Golf Pro, Custom Clubmaker or Club fitter.  No matter what brand of club you choose, it is important that the club is the proper length, with the correct shaft flex for your swing.  A great way to try different clubs is to search for Manufacturer Demo Days.  They are usually hosted at Golf Courses or retailers.  The nice thing about Demo days is that a manufacturers rep is present and they usually have a tour van available with all the available club heads and shafts available for hitting.  Some Demo days will actually have many manufacturers present so you can check out a variety of clubs.  All the major club manufacturers will have a model that will suit you.  Since you are just learning the game I would probably limit my choice to clubs that are considered Super Game Improvement or Game Improvement and avoid Player's Clubs.  Personally I have owned many different brands of clubs over the years: Cleveland, Callaway, Taylor made, Titleist, Ping, Mizuno and they were all good clubs.  For irons, my personal preference is Mizuno.  They make beautiful clubheads that are simple and understated.  When well struck the sound and feel at impact of a Mizuno irons is better than anyother club I have hit.  I am currently playing the Mizuno JP-825 Pros.  They are a game improvement iron, but look more like a players club at address.  They are simply the best looking game improvement iron on the market.  They are forged clubheads so the feel at impact is outstanding on well struck shots.  They are a nice bridge between game improvement and players irons. Beware, don't get these confused with the Mizuno JP-825 irons which are cast irons, not forged.    I highly recommend you check them out.  As for Drivers, I simply love hitting the driver.  Again I have owned many drivers from many different manufacturers, but my preference right now is the Titleist 913 D2.  Its an adjustable driver, it looks beautiful, feels great at impact and when well struck the ball flies straight and far.  Even slight mishits stay in play.  I highly recommend you check it out.  Good luck in buying your first set of clubs.

[solarbear]

There are so many quality clubs out there I would not stress out so much.  I could probably play any gi or super gi iron out there from a major manufacturer and be pretty happy.  Manufacturers seem to really have there irons down.

I like simple looking clubs and went with Wishon.  The custom fitting helped me out a lot.  Mostly I bought an iron I loved the looks of and hit well.  While not super fancy my 752tc hit the ball well and people often ask about them.  Been playing them 5 years and am not looking to upgrade for a while.

Long story short.  Buy the iron you like and fits you.

As a custom option Wishon are excellent.  Only downside, no resale value.