How do I square my club face at impact???

[maddog0512]

Hi, my name is maddog0512 and I'm an alcoh... oh wait, not that kind of place :)  Anyway, this is my first post so take it easy on me.  I picked up golf last summer but have decided to really try to get decent (i.e. shoot under 100, lofty goals I know) this summer.  I have basically become obsessed, it's probably not healthy.  I have taken some lessons and my swing isn't too horrible but I have the hardest time closing the clubface.  I push all my irons right and my longer clubs are more of the push-slice variety.  Does anyone have any drills that worked for them to get the clubface square at impact?  I've messed with strengthening my grip and getting the club more in the fingers but that hasn't helped.  I'm a good 25-30 degrees open on average.  I will probably be posting some video in the members swing area very soon.  Thanks in advance for any advice!

[MPtheKid]

A drill that I like for this is to place two tees in the ground a few inches apart close to where your swing would bottom out. Take a normal swing and make sure that you are knocking both tees out of the ground. This will be difficult to do if the face is open or closed. If the face is square coming through the impact zone, you should be able to successfully take out both of the tees. Do this drill without the ball in order to develop the feel of coming through the impact zone with a square club face.

[maddog0512]

Quote:

A drill that I like for this is to place two tees in the ground a few inches apart close to where your swing would bottom out.

Just to clarify, you're saying to put the two tees at the toe and heel edge of the club face?  Couldn't I still clip both tees being open, albeit less open than I am now?  Seems like it'd have to be very exact...

[MPtheKid]

Yes you could clip both tees I suppose but you can only push both tees in a forward direction (at your target) if the club face is square. If it is open or closed both of the tees could get hit and move but they wouldn't both move forward towards your target.

[maddog0512]

Okay, that makes sense.  I was just missing the piece about the tees being toward the target after impact.  I like it!  Hopefully it works, I'm getting tired of watching my ball fly right!  Thanks.

[MPtheKid]

No problem. Sorry if my first post wasn't entirely clear haha.

[gosly]

I went to the range yesterday and had a mini-revelation with my swing that may help.  I have been pushing balls forever and yesterday I found out that I was kind of swaying my hips back as I took my back swing.  What I did was keep my head down and eye on the ball as I did a slow controlled back swing without putting weight on my back foot, which allowed me to fully lean into the shot and rotate the hips around.  The result was a long straight iron shot that I was more than proud of.

Just a musing that may be helpful, I know it definitely helped eliminate my problem.

[buckshot4227]

Make sure your arent rolling the club face open on your back swing.  I have heard before that at 3 o'clock you want the toe of the club to be pointing straight up.  I could be wrong but I think that is an open club face.  Go back to 3 o'clock and try to get the toe of the club pointiong more to the left(assuming you are right handed).  This should help you square your clubface at impact.  Same when you get to the top of your backswing.  Check and make sure the toe of the club is not pointing straight down.  That is an open clubface and it will be hard for you to square it up at impact from that position.  Try to get the club face pointing more sky ward.  Hopefully this all made sense.

[maddog0512]

Quote:

I have been pushing balls forever and yesterday I found out that I was kind of swaying my hips back as I took my back swing.

gosly - I've noticed I do a bit of swaying as well which definitely isn't helping my cause but I've been just working an impact position drill the last few days (head still, right knee kicked in, left leg a little bowed out, and hands ahead of the ball) and I'm still pushing.  I feel like my biggest problem is the club face at the moment.

Quote:

Go back to 3 o'clock and try to get the toe of the club pointiong more to the left(assuming you are right handed).

buckshot - I've heard this too.  It does make sense to have the club face square to the arc of the swing, rather than the toe pointing straight up, which would be open.  I've also seen some videos that say the cure to a push is trying to feel the knuckles on your left hand rotating down toward the ground when the club is parallel to the ground on the downswing so you achieve a flat left wrist facing the target (and a little down at the ground) at impact.  I think I'm going to see if both of those ideas help at the range tonight.

Thanks to the both of you.

[AmazingWhacker]

Squaring the clubface is pretty hard for those of us who don't do it naturally.  My teacher has a way of teaching where he shows me the end-resullt . .ie, the position my club should be in .. and then has me "force it" until I actually get it.

To close the clubface he had me hit shots with a completely flat left wrist all the way through to the follow through.  When my swing would get to the max extension point (after impact and about knee high) the club would seem to 'flip up'.  It's hard to explain but it's pretty much like the move Brian Manzella shows in his video "Never Slice Again" that he calls "putting the club on the movie screen".   If you google those terms you'll probably find some video clips to check out.

I struggled with this for a while but now it feels natural and the move is not so exagerated.

Best of luck!

[maddog0512]

Thanks, I'll give that video a look.  It's not like I don't already spend enough time on youtube looking at golf videos.

What about impact bags?  Seems like since they get you into the flat left wrist at impact position that it would help fix an open club face (assuming your grip isn't a total mess).  Anyone ever used an impact bag to help get rid of pushes/slices??

[mvmac]

The push slice is not so much the club face as it's the club path.  Path is too far left.  I'm guessing the weight is too far back, make sure that left foot is turned out and that the left knee flexes down and forward.  Will change the swing direction.  I'd also check out this thread for Key #2 drills

http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread

Here's a good visual

[maddog0512]

Originally Posted by mvmac

The push slice is not so much the club face as it's the club path.  Path is too far left.  I'm guessing the weight is too far back, make sure that left foot is turned out and that the left knee flexes down and forward.  Will change the swing direction.  I'd also check out this thread for Key #2 drills

Can you explain this a little more?  As I understand it, a push is an in-to-out swing path with a club face that matches that path.  A push-slice is an in-to-out path with a club face open to that path.  So it would seem to me that if I can square up the club face a little better to the target line, that I would be more likely to hit a draw since I am already swinging in-to-out.  Am I wrong?  Also, what do you mean by "path is too far left?" Thanks for your time, I really appreciate everyone's input!  (P.S. I bought an impact bag this evening so I'm hopeful it'll help with this whole issue.  I'll report back with my very unscientific findings.)

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by maddog0512

Can you explain this a little more?  As I understand it, a push is an in-to-out swing path with a club face that matches that path.  A push-slice is an in-to-out path with a club face open to that path.  So it would seem to me that if I can square up the club face a little better to the target line, that I would be more likely to hit a draw since I am already swinging in-to-out.  Am I wrong?  Also, what do you mean by "path is too far left?" Thanks for your time, I really appreciate everyone's input!  (P.S. I bought an impact bag this evening so I'm hopeful it'll help with this whole issue.  I'll report back with my very unscientific findings.)

Ball starts where the face is aimed and curves away from the path.  So you can hit a push slice with a path left of the target, at the target or right of the target (kinda rare).  Straight push would be where the face and path match up.  Just from experience, especially with a 20 handicap, it's unlikely you're path is in to out with the club face right of your path.  I'm betting if you got your weight more forward, which would help the path get more outward, you'd see the ball flight change.  Most 20 handicappers don't do the first 2 Keys which is why they have significant contact and/or curve issues.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/55426/introducing-five-simple-keys

[maddog0512]

I bet you get tired of explaining ball flight laws!  So it sounds like my straight push with an iron is an in-to-out path and open, and my push-slice with the driver is more out-to-in and open (please correct me if I'm mistaken).  I think I do a good job of getting my weight forward but I know my head moves laterally too much (I've been working on that).  The straight pushes with my irons I mentioned were even happening just doing a drill where I was taking half swings with my body positioned for a correct impact.  I'm definitely going to post a DTL and FO video the next time I get to the range, it's was raining pretty hard tonight.  I play for the first time this year tomorrow evening and I'm just hoping to not embarrass myself too badly!  Thanks again!

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by maddog0512

I bet you get tired of explaining ball flight laws!  So it sounds like my straight push with an iron is an in-to-out path and open, and my push-slice with the driver is more out-to-in and open (please correct me if I'm mistaken).  I think I do a good job of getting my weight forward but I know my head moves laterally too much (I've been working on that).  The straight pushes with my irons I mentioned were even happening just doing a drill where I was taking half swings with my body positioned for a correct impact.  I'm definitely going to post a DTL and FO video the next time I get to the range, it's was raining pretty hard tonight.  I play for the first time this year tomorrow evening and I'm just hoping to not embarrass myself too badly!  Thanks again!

lol yes we explain it a lot, thanks for wanting to learn.  Yes the push slice is an out to in path with the face aimed right of the target. We tend to use open and closed in relation to the path, right and left to describe face angle in relation to target.  So an open clubface is just a face open to the path.  Posting a swing is a great idea.

[maddog0512]

Hey guys, I posted my swing in the "My Swing" forum.  I'd love some feedback on what I'm doing wrong because there's plenty of it!

[Bobsmith]

At the range today I stood thirty degrees open to my target put my left arm by my side and put my clubface square to my target and took my normal quite strong left hand grip the difference was unbelievable if I stood closed I drew the ball if I stood open I faded the ball and if I stood square I hit it straight - I then started messing about standing slightly more open and then even closed - then I even gripped the clubface open - even tried it with chipping it seems that I am gripping the clubface square for my impact position not my address position - this is definitelya green light moment for me - I know it maybe my grip stance and clubface fitting my swing path but for some reason it works for me