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Posted

Welcome to the Mizuno family

Thanks, I am glad I went into this fitting with no ideas or any preferences because after trying so many different brands and models now I know I settled on the best possible option. Next year I'll have to break down and get some matching wedges. I wonder if anyone has any suggestions... Rofl

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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  • Moderator
Posted

Thanks, I am glad I went into this fitting with no ideas or any preferences because after trying so many different brands and models now I know I settled on the best possible option.

That's the best way to purchase new clubs, IMO. Congrats on the new sticks.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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Posted

Next year I'll have to break down and get some matching wedges. I wonder if anyone has any suggestions... Rofl

:edel::whistle:

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Posted
That's the best way to purchase new clubs, IMO. Congrats on the new sticks.

Definitely, even last year when I went looking at adding either a 4 wood or hybrid I just hit everything he had until I narrowed it down to the best option. The driver was a bit different, I went in with the mindset of buying a G30 but ended up with the Bio Cell+. I have questioned whether it is the best driver for me but I did hit it better than the G30. The strangest thing I noticed with the fitting for my irons was that I was significantly more consistent with where I was striking the ball on the clubface with the AP1 and 850 compared to the others. I wish I had taken a picture of the face tape on the 850 after I hit 6 shots in a row and you couldn't even tell I hit more than 1 ball. I had no idea that my lie angle needed to be changed, so that was a pretty big shock that I needed 3* upright change. My swing speed with the 6 iron was 90, and that was when I was still somewhat tight. Even so that does seem like it's a decent speed. I'm pretty excited, not only about getting the irons, but because I'm actually close to a fully fitted bag of clubs. This is not something I thought I'd ever actually have.

Yeah, I'm thinking that's going to be the purchase next year. The only problem is I'm super impatient and if I remember correctly it does take a bit for them to be delivered. That and the price of those wedges... just ouch man. Especially since I'll need a 50-55-60..

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted

The strangest thing I noticed with the fitting for my irons was that I was significantly more consistent with where I was striking the ball on the clubface with the AP1 and 850 compared to the others. I wish I had taken a picture of the face tape on the 850 after I hit 6 shots in a row and you couldn't even tell I hit more than 1 ball.

That's a great feeling, isn't it? Just curious, did you use the Mizuno shaft optimizer? That's the same shaft that they recommended for me for that set, but I didn't end up getting the clubs. Hope they treat you well.

And let's see some more video in this thread, will ya? ;-)

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

That's a great feeling, isn't it? Just curious, did you use the Mizuno shaft optimizer? That's the same shaft that they recommended for me for that set, but I didn't end up getting the clubs. Hope they treat you well.

And let's see some more video in this thread, will ya?

It is actually the shaft that the program recommended, funny enough. I'm planning on throwing up some videos this weekend. However, it's raining here right now so won't be recording anything tonight. I did record a couple the other night but all they showed was my backsliding :censored:

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

DTL too shallow on the backswing and going steep on downswing. Already know the fix for this and have implemented it. FO left knee moving inward instead of staying in place so that's going to be my focus for now.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

DTL

I would say you could do more of what I did and get your left arm up the toe line more. That right arm looks like its getting close to being retracted a bit. I would like to see your swing stop about where I took the screen shot in the backswing. You get to long and the right arm gets behind the right side of your body. Again I would like to see the hands closer to covering the right shoulder in this picture.

*Note - Mind your camera angles. DTL Should be down the toe line, not the target line.

Face On

Not enough weight forward and too much early extension leads to this early release, and the downswing turn rates being off. See the picks of Dustin Johnson. Those positions you have are primarily because you lack weight forward and get extension way to early. You kinda half to do that because of the backswing when it get stuck like that. Think about the thread about Rory and how long he can last on his turn. He gets away with his stuck position because his hips are like 60 degrees open at impact.

I would say your backswing piece is more important right now. I would get a mirror and do backswings work. Put an alignment stick on the ground so the front end is off the toe of your right foot and extends away from the target. Then try to just turn your shoulders and feel your left arm traveling up more and not around. You can do this inside with out even hitting golf balls.

Don't get caught in just hitting a lot of balls on the range. Actually do BORING , yet MEANINGFUL practice

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
DTL

I would say you could do more of what I did and get your left arm up the toe line more. That right arm looks like its getting close to being retracted a bit. I would like to see your swing stop about where I took the screen shot in the backswing. You get to long and the right arm gets behind the right side of your body. Again I would like to see the hands closer to covering the right shoulder in this picture.

*Note - Mind your camera angles. DTL Should be down the toe line, not the target line.

Face On

Not enough weight forward and too much early extension leads to this early release, and the downswing turn rates being off. See the picks of Dustin Johnson. Those positions you have are primarily because you lack weight forward and get extension way to early. You kinda half to do that because of the backswing when it get stuck like that. Think about the thread about Rory and how long he can last on his turn. He gets away with his stuck position because his hips are like 60 degrees open at impact.

I would say your backswing piece is more important right now. I would get a mirror and do backswings work. Put an alignment stick on the ground so the front end is off the toe of your right foot and extends away from the target. Then try to just turn your shoulders and feel your left arm traveling up more and not around. You can do this inside with out even hitting golf balls.

Don't get caught in just hitting a lot of balls on the range. Actually do BORING, yet MEANINGFUL practice

I also think that my backswing goes a little far because I let my left knee bend inward. When I keep my left knee over my foot it tends to help me stop the top of my swing sooner for some reason. This was something I had worked on last year but backslid on. And yeah, the flip, the bane of my existence when it comes to golf... One day I'll fix that. As far as my left arm on the backswing needing to be more on the toe line, that's what I was talking about when I said I knew the fix. Basically I want to have my left arm on the same line as my shoulders. At least that's the "feel" I'm using. I know the angle was a bit wrong, which was another reason i wasn't going to post a the videos, but I figured may as well through them up for something to discuss. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to see how that feel is working on. Also, I have yet to go to the range at all this year, I realized I went overboard just pounding golf balls last year so I'm trying not to do that this year.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I've got to mow the yard, but after that I'll be posting a couple videos to see if I'm implementing the correct change in my back swing. This year I'm not going to try to rush through my improvements, I'm really going to probably focus on one thing throughout the entire season. I want to have some permanent changes this time instead of changes that disappear by the next season.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Ok, these were a bit rushed. Not sure if you can tell but there was a storm coming in pretty quickly and I finished up just about 5 minutes before it started pouring. I have some ideas of issues to work on based on these but I'll refrain and wait to see what you guys say to see how far off I am.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Just posting 2 grabs from the videos that have differences that stand out.

I highlighted the wrist angle because I think that may be an issue but not sure.

I'd say that's a pretty dramatic difference in the knee drift. The backswing length seems pretty consistent but I'm not sure if my hands are higher in the picture to the right or if the gap difference is due to a dipping motion because of the knee tipping inward and dropping my shoulders.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted

Just posting 2 grabs from the videos that have differences that stand out.

I highlighted the wrist angle because I think that may be an issue but not sure.

I'd say that's a pretty dramatic difference in the knee drift. The backswing length seems pretty consistent but I'm not sure if my hands are higher in the picture to the right or if the gap difference is due to a dipping motion because of the knee tipping inward and dropping my shoulders.

Your hip turn is definitely better in the new video. I recommend sticking with that until you can do it 100% of the time before moving on to another piece.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Your hip turn is definitely better in the new video. I recommend sticking with that until you can do it 100% of the time before moving on to another piece.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. With the improved knee position it is actually helping keep the club shaft from going so far across my toe line. Unfortunately there's no improvement on the flip but as I work my way through these changes I figure the flip will reduce.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted

That's pretty much what I was thinking. With the improved knee position it is actually helping keep the club shaft from going so far across my toe line. Unfortunately there's no improvement on the flip but as I work my way through these changes I figure the flip will reduce.

I'm obviously no expert, but I think your flip is really a Key #1 issue. You're shifting your upper body towards the target which effectively slides the ball position back in your stance. If you didn't flip, you'd probably swing right over the ball. You have to create some secondary axis tilt to keep your head steady in the downswing. Might even feel like you're tipping your head back as you swing.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I'm obviously no expert, but I think your flip is really a Key #1 issue. You're shifting your upper body towards the target which effectively slides the ball position back in your stance. If you didn't flip, you'd probably swing right over the ball. You have to create some secondary axis tilt to keep your head steady in the downswing. Might even feel like you're tipping your head back as you swing.

Yep, I have the steady head on the backswing down pat, but once I start down instead of shifting my hips forward I lean my whole body forward. I think that's what Matt mentioned above about getting my weight forward. I think I would adjust that saying to "get my weight foward the correct way".

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Threw together a little training aid real quick to see how it works. I will need to focus on the lead knee flex going straight and this training aid should help me with weight forward without. That way I can focus on the lead knee and axis tilt at the same time without actually thinking about 2 things at the same time.

I can clearly see the improved holding of angles without the ball, however with the ball I still have a bit of throw there. Also, after impact position I'm allowing the club to pass my hands. I won't worry about that just yet because that may fix itself as I become more comfortable with the new positions I'm in through the swing. One thing I have to say is it's crazy how just having that alignment rod there forces me to shift my weight correctly so quickly without a thought.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Wow... definitely going to be using this homemade training aid for the foresee-able future. The only thing I worry is how long will it take to actually become a permanent change, or if it ever will. My fear with training aids is always that without it there my swing will just revert back.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1371 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Day 610 - 2026-06-03 Got some work in between lessons today. Rare late day, teaching until 7:30pm.
    • Let's continue on… Cool. The thing is, nobody's claiming par is "reliable" and par's inclusion piggy-backs in the course rating, which is awfully close to par and, thus, brings par in to make it make sense. Once again, for those in the back… (CR - Par) just makes it really easy to know what kind of score you need to shoot to best, match, or play worse than your handicap index. Yes, when par is different, the players from the higher par tees get an extra stroke (72 vs. 71, the 72s get an extra stroke. That makes sense and is a small complication (more info at https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Committee%20Content/USGA/LG_R6d.htm). However, most of the time, this adjustment will not be needed, as many courses play to the same par for the same genders from all sets of tees. And, the rare times it is needed, par (measured in whole numbers, integers) and strokes (also whole numbers/integers) map easily and the idea is easily grasped. Dean seems to be unaware of the fact that most every golfer carries something orders of magnitude more powerful than the highest end desktop computers available the last time he consulted with the USGA in their pockets. While it is quaint that his club puts printouts by the first tee… get with the times, Dean. Look up your handicap index and course handicap in the GHIN app and get on with it. It's a better system than the one that didn't account — at all — for a difference in the playing conditions (via an algorithm, not a judgment). Dean's assertions about the "less precise system because of par" continues to make absolutely zero sense. Right, it still changed tee to tee. Now it just changes differently… and in a way that more accurately reflects the score you need to shoot to play to your handicap. Previously, a 1.1 index would get 1 stroke on a 66.7/122 par-72 course. Now they give four strokes back to the course and must shoot 68 to play to their handicap. This makes way more sense. The 18-shot difference is a pretty extreme example. Maybe a long course that also offers a par-three set of tees could play that long, but… man, that's not going to be super common. Sensationalistic much, Dean? Also, once those unhappy (complete assumption) golfers realize a) what the change shows them (playing to net par = playing to your index) and b) realizes that their differential is going to be the same… I think they'll get over their initial questions. No. And yet… if he shoots the same scores, he'll get the same handicap index he has now. But he'll know on each course what score he needs to shoot to "play to his handicap." Sheesh, Dean. This stuff isn't that hard to figure out. Enough with the sensationalistic stuff. I don't find it "unacceptable" at all. Then again, I'm not nearly 80 and seemingly incapable of doing basic math these days. No. This literally makes no sense, as that part of the differential calculation and the course handicap calculation remains identical. Good! No. Categorically wrong. They should have been adjusting their handicaps all along. Previously it was by subtracting the course ratings. Which… is still basically what's done, with the addition of the course rating being "baked in" to the course handicap calculation. Dean is wrong here, or doing some math heretofore unknown by the world. When par is the same, what determines the difference in handicaps? The course rating, which Dean loves! Sheesh! You had to things when players were in situations like this before, too. This is getting exhausting. He keeps using words like "less precise" and "unfair" but does not seem to understand what they mean. This is like the Princess Bride meme: "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." The caps reduce upward movement. Committees have reign to reduce a player's handicap, and there's still an automatic Exceptional Score Reduction. I'm going through these more quickly now because… well, it's silly how badly Dean misses the mark with this blog post. Dean is literally confusing the upward movement (with the soft and hard caps) here with the exceptional score reduction which is used when lowering handicaps due to an exceptionally good score. The creators of the WHS are handicap experts. They know more about the current state of handicaps/handicapping than the Pope Emeritus. It's been shown to have almost no effect across all handicaps. Yes, some 36s under the old system are now 35s under the new system. Yawn. He should have stopped there. It's easier to apply and makes more sense. This makes no sense. It's "not complex" but players will have to guess? And, for men or women, the stroke index of each hole doesn't change because they play a different set of tees. They get a different number of strokes, but it's always been true that when you get 14 strokes you apply a stroke to stroke index holes 1-14, and when you get 11, to just holes with a SI of 1-11. Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence. Dean's just out here continuing to make shit up about "the inaccuracy of par" and ignoring that with Par (an integer) came the Course Rating, which he agrees is precise and accurate. No. No, this is inaccurate. Also, as noted, you can randomly assign stroke indexes, and so long as all the low numbers or all the high numbers are not clumped together at the beginning or ends of the 18 holes, matches generally work out the same. This is inaccurate. It is an algorithm that looks at scores. That's it. Also, this is better than a system like the prior one where no such thing existed at all. Wildly inaccurate and off-base. Did they do actual testing? No need. They have millions and millions of rounds and ran many, many, many simulations. That's testing. Dean seems to continue to be unaware of the fact that computers are more powerful now than they were in 2002. But, he's nearly 80, so we can understand if not going so far as to give him a pass on how much he gets wrong. Cool. Noted. For the most part that was because many countries haven't been able to rate enough of their courses. :sigh:
    • Day 3 (3 Jun 26) - More work on keeping arms connected today - hard foam balls with 7i and 5w…..
    • Day 274 6-3 flow drill getting chest through, arms in front. Arms get a little pinned to the side, not as much in front as I want them when I add speed. 
    • Shot 48 yesterday.  For me bogey golf is good.  I was 10 over through 7 and figured with a Par 3 and 4 coming on all I needed was birdie / par to get my 45. I had a great tee shot on #8 and sunk  a 5 footer for birdie, game was coming together, now just needed par on #9. Had a great tee drive and the green was within range for a hoped GIR or nGIR.  But I pulled the shot left into tall weeds and needed to take a drop.  So much for par, but a bogey for 46 is still good for me. I hit my lob wedge to get over a small tree and saw the ball riding nicely  on line to the pin when my club hit the ball a 2nd time on my follow through causing the ball to change directions and ended up @ pin high but along the same tall weeds I just took an unplayable out of.  had no room for a backswing, Just hacked at it and it shot across the green to the rough on the far side.  Needed a chip & 1 putt got a triple bogey. you can see the hole fall apart in the screenshot below.  
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