F1 (Formula 1) Racing Topic

[grubby98]

i’m sure i will.  wife and i both like watching golf and F1. she is a lewis fan and i’m a red bull fan.  so the last 3-4 years has had some talking during race

[Pretzel]

It's absolutely over for Sergio Perez at Red Bull, that was a truly brutal weekend for him which is particularly unfortunate considering the amazing start he got off the line to even be in position to make a pass on Charles Leclerc in turn 1 in the first place. 

Outqualified by Daniel Ricciardo who was driving a substantially slower car followed by a very, very desperate T1 move leading to the DNF. Meanwhile Ricciardo finishes miles ahead of Tsunoda while both outlasting Piastri and heavily pressuring Russell in the closing laps. His aggressive defense on Hamilton early in the race delayed the pass by several laps despite the difference in machinery and would have helped to just further build the margin for Verstappen if the red flag never came out.

Not to mention the fact that he just wiped out any benefit and breathing room in the WDC standings that he received from Hamilton's DSQ in Austin last week, the race between those two is now 20 points with 3 races to go. If Hamilton finished out the season in P2 and Perez doesn't finish at least P4 or higher in every single race then he loses out, but if the events of this weekend are anything to go by he may simply be fighting to just beat out Ricciardo in substantially worse machinery much less Hamilton in a much closer car comparison.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Pretzel

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

Not to mention the fact that he just wiped out any benefit and breathing room in the WDC standings that he received from Hamilton's DSQ in Austin last week, the race between those two is now 20 points with 3 races to go. If Hamilton finished out the season in P2 and Perez doesn't finish at least P4 or higher in every single race then he loses out, but if the events of this weekend are anything to go by he may simply be fighting to just beat out Ricciardo in substantially worse machinery much less Hamilton in a much closer car comparison.

I don't know that Red Bull cares about that. If they win the Constructors and the individual titles… does it matter if he's second or third? Maybe a little, but not financially (to Red Bull). Heck, they may like that he finishes low while they still win both titles because they can justify paying him a bit less, breaking his contract, etc.

He's been bad, and the turn-in on turn one was really bad. Leclerc had nowhere to go, and Checo wasn't nearly as far ahead as he seemed to think.

HIs post-race interview changed some minds, but… man. You can't do that in turn one. Not when you have 71 laps in a better car at race pace (not qualifying) to pass the Ferraris.

[grubby98]

i think checo wanted it so bad he had a mini sec bad decision that could cost him his seat next year.  if he pulls out, at worst he is p3 or 4 after lap one.  then his battle would have been to keep hamilton passing him.  through in dani best outing since his win a few years ago and it could be troubling times. 

[Pretzel]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:42 PM, iacas said:

I don't know that Red Bull cares about that. If they win the Constructors and the individual titles… does it matter if he's second or third? Maybe a little, but not financially (to Red Bull). Heck, they may like that he finishes low while they still win both titles because they can justify paying him a bit less, breaking his contract, etc.

He's been bad, and the turn-in on turn one was really bad. Leclerc had nowhere to go, and Checo wasn't nearly as far ahead as he seemed to think.

HIs post-race interview changed some minds, but… man. You can't do that in turn one. Not when you have 71 laps in a better car at race pace (not qualifying) to pass the Ferraris.

This year, no it doesn't matter at all per se. But this year they had the most dominant car in all of F1 history, setting records for most race wins in a row and the largest percentage of race wins over the course of a season by a single team. In those circumstances it doesn't matter who is in the #2 driver seat because Max Verstappen is able to win both titles for the team without any help. If future years have tighter competition, however, it becomes more concerning to have a #2 driver who is sub-par compared to those of your rival teams. You lose protection from under/overcut strategies because your second driver is out of position to defend, and if your main driver encounters problems (mechanical or of their own making) you're dead in the water because the second driver is not in position to pick up a win or even just a decent points haul at all. Perez, driving the most dominant car in F1 history, got beat last weekend by a driver in their own sister team. A sister team that was dead last in the constructor's championship prior to the race in Mexico and clearly one of the slowest cars on the grid. Whether it's an issue of confidence or an issue of skill, he has fallen off the pace entirely and would very likely be outperformed by many other teammates.

The reason many people were tying his odds to the final WDC placing for him previously, myself included, was that it was a clear benchmark of performance relative to others and it's at least a measurable way to show if somebody is pulling their weight for the team after you factor in any mechanical troubles and strategy compromises. Points and standings are also often important items in driver contracts, with certain clauses or payouts taking effect depending on how a driver performs (both in terms of points and in terms of performance relative to a teammate). We already know the Red Bull is absolutely otherwordly compared to the other cars, to the point where even an average driver should (in theory) be able to consistently beat rivals from other teams. Obviously they may be hampered occasionally by strategy calls to protect the top driver, but for Perez this year that wasn't really the case ever simply because he was never in a good enough position for his strategy to make much difference to Max's race. 

After watching the race and everything else though, I honestly feel like last weekend was the nail in the coffin regardless of if Perez finishes 2nd in the WDC or not. Like you said there, the turn one move was absolute desperation and made no sense at all really considering Perez knew his car was much better on tires and faster for the duration of the race than the Ferraris as a result. His start was fantastic, but if Leclerc does anything to try to avoid Perez it means Verstappen is now in danger. Perez went from not being in a position to help Max but never hurting him to putting himself into a situation where he could have crashed Max out of the race entirely. 

[iacas]

I agree with and understand all of that, and of course my post included the supposition that they take the drivers and constructors championships.

The car is so good that Max hasn’t needed any help this year, but next year it may not be the same of course.

As far as Max is concerned, he may like that Checo is so bad this year because in the same car it almost shows that Max is such a good driver. Compare that with Ferrari or Mercedes and they don’t nearly have the same gap driver to driver.

[Beastie]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

As far as Max is concerned, he may like that Checo is so bad this year because in the same car it almost shows that Max is such a good driver. Compare that with Ferrari or Mercedes and they don’t nearly have the same gap driver to driver.

Absolutely, and it also means the team are 100% committed to designing the car to suit the lead driver, and designing strategies to protect Max. (This has not been required this year. ) Schumacher was so clearly better than his team mates at Ferrari that he benefited in a similar way. 
I don’t think there is any driver on the grid who would beat Verstappen over the course of a season if they were all driving RB cars and only a few(Hamilton, Norris, Alonso) who would win more than a couple of head to heads.

[iacas]

Piastri's season has been interesting. I'm going to keep an eye on him.

[iacas]

FORMULA 1® (@f1) • Instagram reel

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188K likes, 1,142 comments - f1 on November 6, 2023: "The best seat in the house for that EPIC final lap 🤩 #F1 #Formula1 #BrazilGP"

[iacas]

[grubby98]

i think after issues with FP1 it was a good race

lots of passing with tire strategy and race looked nice with vegas lights

i did have to dvr it.  didn’t want to be a zombie today

[iacas]

5 hours ago, grubby98 said:

i think after issues with FP1 it was a good race

lots of passing with tire strategy and race looked nice with vegas lights

i did have to dvr it.  didn’t want to be a zombie today

I agree. I think, with the bugs worked out, it ended up being an okay race. The cold temps led to some interesting things, too.

[Pretzel]

Any driver that whined about cold tires being "dangerous" has immediately and permanently lost any respect I may have had for them.

It's no more dangerous that taking corners at 100+ mph any other time would be, the grip level is just a bit less so you'll be driving slower. Unless you're an idiot, that is, who tries to continue to drive the same speeds in every corner before your tires warm up.

They're the best drivers in the world and they're paid millions of dollars to find the limit of grip and drive to that limit. I have zero sympathy for the ones who aren't as good at their job as the rest of the field complaining about it being trickier to handle in cold weather.

[iacas]

[grubby98]

just 63 days until Bahrain

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, grubby98 said:

just 63 days until Bahrain

How long until Drive to Survive? 😉 

[iacas]

Oooooooh.

[saevel25]

Ok, that is cool.