Official 2013 British Open at Muirfield Discussion Thread

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Sorry, but I have to inform you that it's called the Open Championship, and it is THE Open because it was first by a long shot.  First played in 1860 before there was even a golf course in the US, it predates the US Open by 35 years.  It still is the preeminent major championship in the eyes of many.  Understand also that Britain is steeped in history and tradition, and it only stands to reason that those qualities would be an integral part of the game which began there.  I can be a homer and root for Americans while still not feeling diminished by recognizing THE Open for what it is - one of the truly great traditions of our game.

It's no more incorrect than for MLB to call their championship the World Series and declare the winner the world champion.  It is like that because that tradition began in the US.  Well the tradition of an open championship in golf began in Scotland, so they retain the right to the name.

I'm no xenophobe thumping my Red, White, and Blue "These Colors Don't Run" shirt on my chest, trust me, and I greatly respect the history of golf as a UK sport, but this is the 21st century and there are 4 majors that most people believe have equal weight in importance. If England created a baseball league that attracted the best talent in the world from the Caribbean, Latin America, and Japan and they called their championship game the British World Series, I would probably lobby to make the US call their baseball championship the US World Series, or something like that. Currently no baseball league in the world compares to the US one, so keep it the World Series. If baseball players traveled around the world and played in 4 championships of equal importance, I'd expect none of them to be the exclusive "World" Series, even the US one.

This is really no big deal. Maybe my Irish blood just got to me! Hearing "The Open" just makes me think of that Robin Williams comedy bit about the history of golf where he says "...and then you see these old WASPy f***s declaring "Dear God, how did the help get to play?" or something like that. Hope to see you at St. Andrew's some time!

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Well, I won't answer for anyone but myself, but I never implied he is washed up. Obviously he is very talented. But I think you would have to agree that he has under-performed relative to that talent. And he has a history of fading in majors.

And there's nothing unusual about that. Tom Purtzer had a great swing. Orville Moody was an excellent ball-striker. Tom Weiskopf should have won more than one major. At this point, that's the group Westwood is in, imo.

I do not disagree with you at all either. The difference between what you're saying and what "kw purp" was quoted as saying multiple times though is night and day.You're bringing intelligent discussion into play with facts and comparisons to other professionals who performed, or are performing, at a comparable level (whether that is performing well, fading in majors, short-comings, etc.).

The other 2 or 3 guys in this thread just say "HAHA! LEE SUCKS! The European Tour is a joke and he has no skill! He should just go to to the web.com tour, what a failure in golf!". In my opinion, that's just really stupid and ignorant and I couldn't sit idle without questioning the rationale -- or obvious lack of.

Originally Posted by mmoan2

I'm no xenophobe thumping my Red, White, and Blue "These Colors Don't Run" shirt on my chest, trust me, and I greatly respect the history of golf as a UK sport, but this is the 21st century and there are 4 majors that most people believe have equal weight in importance. If England created a baseball league that attracted the best talent in the world from the Caribbean, Latin America, and Japan and they called their championship game the British World Series, I would probably lobby to make the US call their baseball championship the US World Series, or something like that. Currently no baseball league in the world compares to the US one, so keep it the World Series. If baseball players traveled around the world and played in 4 championships of equal importance, I'd expect none of them to be the exclusive "World" Series, even the US one.

This is really no big deal. Maybe my Irish blood just got to me! Hearing "The Open" just makes me think of that Robin Williams comedy bit about the history of golf where he says "...and then you see these old WASPy f***s declaring "Dear God, how did the help get to play?" or something like that. Hope to see you at St. Andrew's some time!

As far as this goes, I have no idea what the hell all of this means.

There is no debate or "question" as to what the major is called. It's called "The Open", plain and simple. There's no room for interpretation or changing the name to something else. It is "The Open" and it has been for many, many, many years. People can nickname it what they want, but it is officially 'The Open'.

If your name is Bill and I nickname you Charlie, no matter how many times I call you Charlie or Chuck.. your name is still Bill.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

My prediction - Westwood just blew his last chance at winning a major. And he's an elite player. He's had 60 chances and he's past 40 now.

Well, the last three Open Champions were at least 42. Just sayin...

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by phan52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmoan2

My prediction - Westwood just blew his last chance at winning a major. And he's an elite player. He's had 60 chances and he's past 40 now.

Well, the last three Open Champions were at least 42. Just sayin...

Good point. Guess he needs a couple more years to mature.

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by Spyder

I do not disagree with you at all either. The difference between what you're saying and what "kw purp" was quoted as saying multiple times though is night and day.You're bringing intelligent discussion into play with facts and comparisons to other professionals who performed, or are performing, at a comparable level (whether that is performing well, fading in majors, short-comings, etc.).

The other 2 or 3 guys in this thread just say "HAHA! LEE SUCKS! The European Tour is a joke and he has no skill! He should just go to to the web.com tour, what a failure in golf!". In my opinion, that's just really stupid and ignorant and I couldn't sit idle without questioning the rationale -- or obvious lack of.

As far as this goes, I have no idea what the hell all of this means.

There is no debate or "question" as to what the major is called. It's called "The Open", plain and simple. There's no room for interpretation or changing the name to something else. It is "The Open" and it has been for many, many, many years. People can nickname it what they want, but it is officially 'The Open'.

If your name is Bill and I nickname you Charlie, no matter how many times I call you Charlie or Chuck.. your name is still Bill.

Translation: Change it to "The British Open." Officially. It can happen. Sports leagues/title games change their names all the times. When the times change. It's no longer the only "Open." It's no longer the most important open. Hasn;t been for decades. Only to Anglophiles who still think we should play golf wearing a tie and knickers.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

Translation: Change it to "The British Open." Officially. It can happen. Sports leagues/title games change their names all the times. When the times change. It's no longer the only "Open." It's no longer the most important open. Hasn;t been for decades. Only to Anglophiles who still think we should play golf wearing a tie and knickers.

Not so. It is the most important Open to everybody else in the world outside of the United States.

And they are not changing the name anytime soon. In fact, they have made an effort in recent years to get the media to drop the "British" from "British Open" and they have been very successful in doing so.

Get over it, John Wayne. They only know you as Sean Thornton, anyway.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder

I do not disagree with you at all either. The difference between what you're saying and what "kw purp" was quoted as saying multiple times though is night and day.You're bringing intelligent discussion into play with facts and comparisons to other professionals who performed, or are performing, at a comparable level (whether that is performing well, fading in majors, short-comings, etc.).

The other 2 or 3 guys in this thread just say "HAHA! LEE SUCKS! The European Tour is a joke and he has no skill! He should just go to to the web.com tour, what a failure in golf!". In my opinion, that's just really stupid and ignorant and I couldn't sit idle without questioning the rationale -- or obvious lack of.

As far as this goes, I have no idea what the hell all of this means.

There is no debate or "question" as to what the major is called. It's called "The Open", plain and simple. There's no room for interpretation or changing the name to something else. It is "The Open" and it has been for many, many, many years. People can nickname it what they want, but it is officially 'The Open'.

If your name is Bill and I nickname you Charlie, no matter how many times I call you Charlie or Chuck.. your name is still Bill.

Translation: Change it to "The British Open." Officially. It can happen. Sports leagues/title games change their names all the times. When the times change. It's no longer the only "Open." It's no longer the most important open. Hasn;t been for decades. Only to Anglophiles who still think we should play golf wearing a tie and knickers.

Originally Posted by phan52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmoan2

Translation: Change it to "The British Open." Officially. It can happen. Sports leagues/title games change their names all the times. When the times change. It's no longer the only "Open." It's no longer the most important open. Hasn;t been for decades. Only to Anglophiles who still think we should play golf wearing a tie and knickers.

Not so. It is the most important Open to everybody else in the world outside of the United States.

And they are not changing the name anytime soon. In fact, they have made an effort in recent years to get the media to drop the "British" from "British Open" and they have been very successful in doing so.

Get over it, John Wayne. They only know you as Sean Thornton, anyway.

Agreed. I would venture to say there are even some American golfers that would feel more accomplishment by winning the Open than by winning any other major. That's purely speculation, of course.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by phan52

Not so. It is the most important Open to everybody else in the world outside of the United States.

And they are not changing the name anytime soon. In fact, they have made an effort in recent years to get the media to drop the "British" from "British Open" and they have been very successful in doing so.

Get over it, John Wayne. They only know you as Sean Thornton, anyway.

Who cares?

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by phan52

Not so. It is the most important Open to everybody else in the world outside of the United States.

And they are not changing the name anytime soon. In fact, they have made an effort in recent years to get the media to drop the "British" from "British Open" and they have been very successful in doing so.

Get over it, John Wayne. They only know you as Sean Thornton, anyway.

I think there's about 3 million Asian kids from Korea, Japan, and China wearing Tiger Woods-inspired clothing who would rather play in the Masters or U.S. Open than the Limey Open - I mean Open Championship. Argentina or Brazil anyone? Please. In 20 years, in fact, the Open Championship will no longer be a major. Muirfield will be turned into a museum and young kids from Taiwan will go there and say "Look, daddy! They used to play golf on a course with no green grass or water hazards and pavement for fairways!" Donald Trump will buy St. Andrews and turn it into luxury condos.

Ok, enough. I'm kidding of course. Time to spend the rest of my day off doing something important. Tradition it is...

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Who cares?

Only bored people.

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by Spyder

PS: Keep in mind that Lee Westwood's "awful performance" netted him nearly $430,000. I'm sure you could do much better though.

Good post and good point Spyder.  This is exactly what I was about to post regarding Westwood.

He is making an awesome living as a professional golfer.  Would be nice to be behind the scenes as he chugs Guinness with his buds laughs at his critics regarding his "will to win" "Sunday issues" etc.  As he tallies up the paychecks.  And plays the sport he loves 24/7 (albeit not to the standard that us outsiders would like to "set" for him).

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by TJBam

Good post and good point Spyder.  This is exactly what I was about to post regarding Westwood.

He is making an awesome living as a professional golfer.  Would be nice to be behind the scenes as he chugs Guinness with his buds laughs at his critics regarding his "will to win" "Sunday issues" etc.  As he tallies up the paychecks.  And plays the sport he loves 24/7 (albeit not to the standard that us outsiders would like to "set" for him).

Yeah. I'd love to be disappointed over not winning a major as I collected millions for playing golf, instead of paying to play it in my free time.

[jamo]

Agreed. I would venture to say there are even some American golfers that would feel more accomplishment by winning the Open than by winning any other major. That's purely speculation, of course.

I want to win The Open, but the British Open is a big "meh."

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by phan52

Not so. It is the most important Open to everybody else in the world outside of the United States.

And they are not changing the name anytime soon. In fact, they have made an effort in recent years to get the media to drop the "British" from "British Open" and they have been very successful in doing so.

Get over it, John Wayne. They only know you as Sean Thornton, anyway.

Disagree - your comment is too broad. For a Brit or a Scot or an Irishman...then yeah, probably true. Probably . But everyone else outside of the U.S.? Does an Australian want the British Open crown over the US Open or Masters? (Or for that matter, the Australian Open?) What about Asian players? Angel Cabrera? South Africans?

My take on calling the The Open Championship is, eh, whatever. I think it's a pride thing for those under the Union Jack flag & it is indeed the oldest major - back then it truly was THE Open Championship...because no others existed, and just because others started doesn't mean they have to change their name. If I were in charge of it, my attitude would be screw all y'all (lol picture a Brit with a southern drawl) - we are calling ourselves The Open Championship whether you like it or not.

But don't let the name fool you. Calling something that doesn't make it so. It is one of the four most important tournaments of the year. Period. And outside of England/Scotland/Ireland, it carries no mystical significance greater than the Masters/US Open/PGA Championship. I'm sure virtually every pro golfer not named Harrington or Clarke or Westwood would be just as happy winning a US Open or PGA as The Open.

[Chilli Dipper]

We're talking about an Anglocentric nomenclature that exists with any sport that originated in Britain. The English national (association) football federation is not named as such; it is simply the Football Association. The big tennis tournament isn't the British Open, but The Championships, Wimbledon. They invented the game, their championship was the first, and they'll be damned if anyone tries to make it change the names now.

[ScouseJohnny]

I'm just glad it isn't yet called the Barclays plc Open Championship or the Bridgestone Tyres Open Championship , the way every other sporting event seems to have been re-branded these days. Still, give it a decade or so...

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny

I'm just glad it isn't yet called the Barclays plc Open Championship or the Bridgestone Tyres Open Championship, the way every other sporting event seems to have been re-branded these days. Still, give it a decade or so...

I would be surprised if they ever solicit title sponsors for the Open. But if you think about it, there are quite a few that haven't gone that way. None of the men's golf majors have a title sponsor. None of the tennis grand slam events have a title sponsor.

[ScouseJohnny]

Yeah, I hope that never creeps into golf. My wife is American (from Florida) and a U of F fan. She can't say, "Discover Orange Bowl," with a straight face, but then, as I recall, it's the dreaded Seminoles rather than the Gators that have had the most recent success in that direction, anyway...