What is an Albatross? (OT Stuff from "First Albatross" Thread)

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

That's not true.  Holing out from 140 is impressive, but they are saying that it's an eagle and not an albatross (effectively).  If he hit his drive 420 and holed out from 140, they would likely consider it an albatross.  I happen to agree with the guys that while it's factually and technically an albatross, it wouldn't be an albatross I would brag about.  I mean, let's be real, the hole went from 450 yards with a 300+ drive, to now being 475 with a 320+ yard drive.  I believe he's trying to justify the length at this point with bullsh**.

I'm not gonna dig through the thread, but I believe he said it was 450-475, and his drive was upwards of 300 yards the first time he brought up details.

Whether or not you guys would consider it an albatross is irrelevant. It is. Period. Is it the most impressive albatross? Hardly, but that's not the point. If I holed out on a 97 yard par 3, you bet your ass I'd be talking about my hole in one.

On a side note, I find it completely hypocritical for some of you guys to post what you're posting after all the talk of "teeing it forward" and all that other BS. So tee it forward, but when you do, you can't accomplish anything...put an asterisk on it.

I guess I'm gonna play from the tips everywhere even though my handicap doesn't call for it, just so any accomplishments can be recognized on here.

[bplewis24]

I'm not gonna dig through the thread, but I believe he said it was 450-475, and his drive was upwards of 300 yards the first time he brought up details. Whether or not you guys would consider it an albatross is irrelevant. It is. Period. Is it the most impressive albatross? Hardly, but that's not the point. If I holed out on a 97 yard par 3, you bet your ass I'd be talking about my hole in one. On a side note, I find it completely hypocritical for some of you guys to post what you're posting after all the talk of "teeing it forward" and all that other BS. So tee it forward, but when you do, you can't accomplish anything...put an asterisk on it.  I guess I'm gonna play from the tips everywhere even though my handicap doesn't call for it, just so any accomplishments can be recognized on here.

You've completely ignored what I wrote and are arguing against a straw man. More power to you. You do realize, though, that the women's tees are no more designed for your handicap than the tips are, right? Probably less so,even. Teeing it forward, ha. Nevertheless, I'd like to add some objectivity to the discussion: what is the course and hole number for this feat?

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

You've completely ignored what I wrote and are arguing against a straw man. More power to you.

Nevertheless, I'd like to add some objectivity to the discussion: what is the course and hole number for this feat?

Don't take too much offense, even though I quoted you, it was not directly aimed at you, only the first part about the distance was. My apologies, should have emphasized that.

It was more aimed toward the people who didn't rationalize their arguments and just posted in here to crap on this guy's parade.

[trackster]

Alright, here is the layout of the hole.  The top path is how I would think that the hole is measured for distance purposes.  The top path is about 465 yards.  The bottom path is what I believe to be the shot path that I took.  That path is about 455 yards.  The spot where my shot path intersects the cart path the last time is roughly 300 yards.  My 2nd was played just beyond that cart path.  This distances aren't official but they are the best that I can provide.

[Lihu]

Looks like a Par 5 (short, but a 5) to me.

Don't worry, most of the responses are positive.

Also, I think if you ace a hole at a local course you get your name on a plaque. As long as it is part of a normal round or tournament conditions. The only reason for those conditions is so that it's not done while practicing on the hole and hitting hundreds of balls to get one ace. I would think the same type of logic goes for the albatross (although I would be really surprised to see someone repeating a par 5 multiple times in a day to do it). The other thing I noticed is that you had 4 total chances to get bounce off that cart path, and 3 at the distances you noted in an earlier post. The odds were in your favor. Really cool.

Anyway, a big congratulations again.

[Shorty]

Call me batman on rollerblades, but I missed the bit where the OP said that this was in a scramble. Come on.....seriously?

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Call me batman on rollerblades, but I missed the bit where the OP said that this was in a scramble. Come on.....seriously?

His drive, his second shot, his albatross.  It was for CHARITY bro.  For the kids.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by 460CompMark

actually made an eagle by myself in the last scramble as well.

When I play in an ambrose (similar to a scramble) and we use my drive, my second and my putt, it wouldn't even ocur to me to think of it as an individual birdie, especially as it's a team event and not individual medal or match play.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by Shorty

When I play in an ambrose (similar to a scramble) and we use my drive, my second and my putt, it wouldn't even ocur to me to think of it as an individual birdie, especially as it's a team event and not individual medal or match play.

Ah come on.  It's like I said if you get a hole in one in a scramble you're gonna count it right?  I hit my drive, my ball never moved from where I drove it too, I stepped up to it and knocked it in.

I can see the argument if you used someones shot in between, but if it's all you why not count it.

Another funny note is this was hole #9, I stepped up to hole #10 which plays with the water in that photo on the left side and almost teed up the same ball that I got the albatross with.  I thought better of it and quickly stored it back in the bag.

[sacm3bill]

Regarding whether the length of a hole factors into whether it's an albatross or not, here's something else to consider. The USGA defines a male scratch golfer (for course rating purposes) as someone who "hits his tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots." So a scratch golfer might *barely* be able to reach this green in two (I think trackster says it's about 465 as it was designed to be played.)

If a scratch golfer is barely getting there in 2, then it's a legitimate par 5 for an 11 handicapper like Trackster.

[Phil McGleno]

Oh good lots of updates. Then it was the longest par four that youv'e ever played. Congratulations on your eagle-that wasn't really an eagle since it was in a scramble. [quote name="trackster" url="/t/68375/first-albatross/36#post_867028"] While It was probably short for me being a par 5 it would be the longest par 4 that I have ever played. (if that makes sense).[/quote] I have three. None were on holes shorter than 525 yards and All were playing my ball down the whole time, no mulligans, no fluffing my ball up because its a scramble none of that. [quote name="trackster" url="/t/68375/first-albatross/36#post_867028"]Yes because you consistently hole out 470 yard holes in two?  Give me a break I don't care if your handicap is where it is.  Go play the ladies tees and please video all of your albatrosses.  I would like to see another one!! They are pretty cool (I take it your bitterness is the fact that you haven't gotten one yet)[/quote] Got a few of those-They're called eagles. [quote name="trackster" url="/t/68375/first-albatross/36#post_867028"]And you have seen this hole?  The biggest risk reward was playing right over the bunker on my tee shot.  Water runs all the way up the left side all the way to the green.  Not sure what you are getting at with all these women's tee box talk.  Please tell me about a 470 yard hole out in 2 you had, like i've said I would like to hear/see another one!.[/quote] Thats just an eagle and it makes my point that he didnt get an albatross. If he drove it 440 even if it hit a cart path and rolled and then made it from 140 on top of that it is an albatross with a lot of luck. A drive and a pitching wedge from 450 is not an albatross just as holing a wedge on a par three is not an albatross-Thank you for agreeing with me with your logc. [quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/68375/first-albatross/36#post_867042"] Just curious ... Would any of you guys who say this doesn't count on account of the length of the hole also like to tell everybody who has a hole in one on a 120 yard par 3 (instead of a 210 yard par 3) that their hole in one doesn't count??? That's pretty much what you're saying.[/quote] Right it is not an albatross it is an eagle. Congrats on that-Even hackers have plenty of those. Still rare and well played. [quote name="bplewis24" url="/t/68375/first-albatross/36#post_867067"] That's not true.  Holing out from 140 is impressive, but they are saying that it's an eagle and not an albatross (effectively).  If he hit his drive 420 and holed out from 140, they would likely consider it an albatross.  I happen to agree with the guys that while it's factually and technically an albatross, it wouldn't be an albatross I would brag about.  I mean, let's be real, the hole went from 450 yards with a 300+ drive, to now being 475 with a 320+ yard drive.  I believe he's trying to justify the length at this point with bullsh**.[/quote] That is just for course rating purposes-Literally for doing the math to determine the course rating. Also if a hole is 475 then they define the area from there to the hole as transitional area. Also 470 is to the center of the green - the golfer who hits 250 and 220 would be on the green in two So your argument works against you. The course rating for that hole would be about 4.1. That is all the scratch golfer is used to determine - the course ratings and individual hole ratings-They add up to the course rating. [quote name="sacm3bill" url="/t/68375/first-albatross/72#post_867329"]Regarding whether the length of a hole factors into whether it's an albatross or not, here's something else to consider. The USGA defines a male scratch golfer (for course rating purposes) as someone who "hits his tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots." So a scratch golfer might *barely* be able to reach this green in two (I think trackster says it's about 465 as it was designed to be played.) Par does not change with your handicap level or else an 18 handicapper would be playing a par 90 everywhere he went. [quote name="sacm3bill" url="/t/68375/first-albatross/72#post_867329"]If a scratch golfer is barely getting there in 2, then it's a legitimate par 5 for an 11 handicapper like Trackster. [/quote]

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Just curious ... Would any of you guys who say this doesn't count on account of the length of the hole also like to tell everybody who has a hole in one on a 120 yard par 3 (instead of a 210 yard par 3) that their hole in one doesn't count??? That's pretty much what you're saying.

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Thats just an eagle and it makes my point that he didnt get an albatross. If he drove it 440 even if it hit a cart path and rolled and then made it from 140 on top of that it is an albatross with a lot of luck. A drive and a pitching wedge from 450 is not an albatross just as holing a wedge on a par three is not an albatross-Thank you for agreeing with me with your logc.

I'm a little confused as it appears that you responded to the posts you quoted above them rather than below them ... but then that would make this your response to my post, which I don't get.

I'm saying a hole-in-one is a hole-in-one regardless of whether or not you do it at Pebble #7 or Pebble #17.  Therefore, my logic states that an albatross is an albatross whether it's a 260 yard second shot on a 600 yard hole or a 140 yard shot on a 470 yard hole.  As long as it's a 2, and the card says its a par 5, its an albatross.

So, how did I agree with you?

[Phil McGleno]

Yes I post on the top. If you are playing an executive course and hole out from 70 yards is it really a hole in one? Kinda. But not really. What if youre playing it in a scramble? He played a par four that was mismarked from those tees as a par five because he should not have been playing from those tees. If you play a 200-yard par "four" from the womens tees is it an eagle if you get a 2 when it plays 300 from the blue tees and has a pond in front (that you can easily clear with a 4iron or something?)? Like I said congrats on the eagle but I wouldn't go around bragging about my albatross just like I dont go around bragging about the many aces ive got playing the par three course where I used to live.[quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/68375/first-albatross/72#post_867368"] I'm a little confused as it appears that you responded to the posts you quoted above them rather than below them ... but then that would make this your response to my post, which I don't get.  I'm saying a hole-in-one is a hole-in-one regardless of whether or not you do it at Pebble #7 or Pebble #17.  Therefore, my logic states that an albatross is an albatross whether it's a 260 yard second shot on a 600 yard hole or a 140 yard shot on a 470 yard hole.  As long as it's a 2, and the card says its a par 5, its an albatross. So, how did I agree with you? [/quote]

[SloverUT]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Yes I post on the top.

If you are playing an executive course and hole out from 70 yards is it really a hole in one? Kinda. But not really. What if youre playing it in a scramble?

He played a par four that was mismarked from those tees as a par five because he should not have been playing from those tees. If you play a 200-yard par "four" from the womens tees is it an eagle if you get a 2 when it plays 300 from the blue tees and has a pond in front (that you can easily clear with a 4iron or something?)?

Like I said congrats on the eagle but I wouldn't go around bragging about my albatross just like I dont go around bragging about the many aces ive got playing the par three course where I used to live.

If I got a hole in one on a 70 yard executive course hole, then I got a hole in one.  I made it in one shot on a hole on a golf course.  Some people have aces one 200+ par 3's, other on 150ish.  Regardless of length, it is still a hole in one.

Why do we keep adding stipulations on what should make a person proud?

[jtw89]

Yes I post on the top. If you are playing an executive course and hole out from 70 yards is it really a hole in one? Kinda. But not really. What if youre playing it in a scramble? He played a par four that was mismarked from those tees as a par five because he should not have been playing from those tees. If you play a 200-yard par "four" from the womens tees is it an eagle if you get a 2 when it plays 300 from the blue tees and has a pond in front (that you can easily clear with a 4iron or something?)? Like I said congrats on the eagle but I wouldn't go around bragging about my albatross just like I dont go around bragging about the many aces ive got playing the par three course where I used to live.

I don't understand why there's such a fuss over whether or not this was an albatross. It was. You can like it, you can hate it, you can kind of be a jerk about it; it is an albatross. Why does it matter what tees you're playing from or how the course is rated? People are all giddy about "teeing it forward." Well I'm gonna say screw that if it means an ace on a short par 3 or an albatross on a short 4 or 5 doesn't count. This is the kind of thinking that discourages people from "teeing it forward."

[Shorty]

I don't understand why there's such a fuss over whether or not this was an albatross. It was. You can like it, you can hate it, you can kind of be a jerk about it; it is an albatross. ."

Not in a scramble. Sorry.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Regarding whether the length of a hole factors into whether it's an albatross or not, here's something else to consider. The USGA defines a male scratch golfer (for course rating purposes) as someone who "hits his tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots." So a scratch golfer might *barely* be able to reach this green in two (I think trackster says it's about 465 as it was designed to be played.)

If a scratch golfer is barely getting there in 2, then it's a legitimate par 5 for an 11 handicapper like Trackster.

That is just for course rating purposes-Literally for doing the math to determine the course rating. Also if a hole is 475 then they define the area from there to the hole as transitional area. Also 470 is to the center of the green - the golfer who hits 250 and 220 would be on the green in two So your argument works against you. The course rating for that hole would be about 4.1. That is all the scratch golfer is used to determine - the course ratings and individual hole ratings-They add up to the course rating.

Can you please post on the bottom of what you're responding to, instead of the top? There are thousands of users here and they all follow the same format when replying.

Anyway, yes, like I said, it's for course rating purposes. But they don't just pull the distances an average scratch golfer hits the ball out of a hat. They have determined that the average scratch golfer needs two shots to reach a 470 yard hole. I.e., such a hole is at the high end of a scratch golfer's ability to reach in two. So if a less-than-scratch golfer plays that hole, it makes perfect sense for it to be a par 5.

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

... Also if a hole is 475 then they define the area from there to the hole as transitional area.

Huh? The area from *where* to the hole? I've never heard of a transition area, please explain what that is and why it matters in this discussion,

You can quibble about "center of the green" and "transition areas" (whatever that means) all you want, but in the end it doesn't change the length of the hole by more than a few yards.

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Par does not change with your handicap level or else an 18 handicapper would be playing a par 90 everywhere he went.

No one has said par should change based on handicap. I'm saying the tees he played from were appropriate for his handicap, in that the length of the hole was a legitimate par 5 for his handicap.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

No one has said par should change based on handicap. I'm saying the tees he played from were appropriate for his handicap, in that the length of the hole was a legitimate par 5 for his handicap.

lol, not true. That's basically what Phil is saying. You have to determine each time you go out which holes the course has labeled incorrectly based on your own abilities. If you're a 12 handicap who can occasionally pop one out there past 300 then you have to adjust all par 5 holes under 500 to par 4s, and all par 3s under 120 to par 2.5s I guess?

Oh well now that you put it that way it makes perfect sense!  :-)

Originally Posted by trackster

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

But the golf records do say you have to be playing by the official rules of golf for records to count. And scrambles are not played by the official rules of golf.

You had an amazing 2 shots, and I have no problem with you calling it an albatross, but there is a lot less pressure hitting shots in a scramble.

But technically I did play by the official rules didn't I.  I hit my ball to a spot, hit the ball from that spot and it went into the hole.  What rule did I break?  I get the argument but it just doesn't hold.

Sure there was a lot of pressure.  We were 7 under going into hole 9 and I am a competitive person.  We had two shots from 140 out that had not even come close to the green.  I was arguably the best iron player of our 4.  There is water on the left and bunkers on the right.

What does pressure matter anyway.  Do my weekday rounds not count because I am not sweating buckets after doubling the 4th hole?

Hmm, good question. I guess in every scramble you break the rule that says a round consists of playing the holes in order and playing your own ball from tee to green on each hole, but I may be reaching...

But pressure matters for the same reason that it's harder to hit a good shot on the course than it is on the range. Similarly, it's harder to hit a good shot when you don't have 3 other people who could potentially bail you out and still get a good team score on the hole if you hit a bad shot.