Phil's legacy, what does the Open win do for this?

[PatrickV]

Phil is not only a great golfer, hes a great person. He is awesome to his fans, and he acknowledges their existence (unlike Tiger). He has the best short game of all time. Period. The best left hander of all time. Not to deal in hypotheticals but imagine if he had one just half of those US Opens he got 2nd in. It would be a top 5 convo. I believe Phil will win 3 more majors. A US Open, and a Masters, and a PGA.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by PatrickV

Phil is not only a great golfer, hes a great person. He is awesome to his fans, and he acknowledges their existence (unlike Tiger). He has the best short game of all time. Period. The best left hander of all time. Not to deal in hypotheticals but imagine if he had one just half of those US Opens he got 2nd in. It would be a top 5 convo. I believe Phil will win 3 more majors. A US Open, and a Masters, and a PGA.

Good post.

Honestly, I do not understand the 'Phil Haters' out there. As you said - great golfer, good man (by all accounts - we of course thought the same thing about Tiger before Tgiving 2009), has a great family, has had his share of tribulations (his wife's cancer, his arthritis), great with the fans...and he smiles thru it all.

I mean, outside of jealousy, what's to not like?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Honestly, I do not understand the 'Phil Haters' out there. As you said - great golfer, good man (by all accounts - we of course thought the same thing about Tiger before Tgiving 2009), has a great family, has had his share of tribulations (his wife's cancer, his arthritis), great with the fans...and he smiles thru it all.

The bold simply isn't true.

Personally I couldn't care less about how Phil is off the course - I just admire him as a great golfer, and I do like that he displays emotion. He displays it differently than Tiger, but he's not a robot.

But I have heard plenty of stories from people I trust. People who wouldn't be making things up because they aren't mean spirited and are not in the position to be jealous of Phil for anything. First-hand stories. They decreased in frequency the past few years - anyone can speculate on the reasons - and I've never really cared about them. But it's not "by all accounts." Perhaps any of the accounts you've heard.

At the end of the day, though, Phil's legacy is that he's a great golfer, and winning a major obviously helps him do that. It broadens the way we look t his game - he was now capable of winning an event we previously thought him incapable of winning (because he was, given the way he played them the first 15 years of his career - we weren't wrong, but Phil had to change, and did). It moves him into the top 10 American players of all time - a group he'd been just on the outside of prior to winning his fifth major title in his third different major.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by iacas

The bold simply isn't true.

Personally I couldn't care less about how Phil is off the course - I just admire him as a great golfer, and I do like that he displays emotion. He displays it differently than Tiger, but he's not a robot.

But I have heard plenty of stories from people I trust. First-hand stories, too.

Okay. By most accounts. Or some accounts. Point is, I haven't heard much negative about him. If you have, please share. I'd be interested in hearing it. Maybe it would alter my view of him.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Great point Zip.  I agree with your assessment.  The thing that is going to be interesting is to see how much longer Phil can play at the level he's currently playing at given the arthritis issues he has.  The way he has played this years Majors, I wouldn't be surprised to see him win a handful more which would firmly put him in that 2nd tier and top 10.

Being left handed and having meet him playing blackjack with Amy in Vegas, I am a fan of Phil's, but don't think he will win 4 or 5 more majors- 1 or 2 more would be good and 3 would be amazing to see, but there really aren't that many guys winning multiple majors in their 40s.

One thing I find kinda funny is that until earlier this month, Phil had never won in Europe (other than a Challenge Tour event in 1993) and now he has 9 "European Tour" Wins.

[k-troop]

For me the Open Championship win puts Phil on an entirely different plane for several reasons:

1.  It's an entirely different style of golf, and one to which Phil's game isn't necessarily suited.  He's not known for hitting low, shaping shots that use terrain, and Open courses require a lot of very precise lag putting.  That he could adapt his game is remarkable, but that he could do it with such a masterful performance on a Sunday when so many great players (Tiger, Zach, Westy, Scott, Hunter, etc) were grabbing and losing the lead was simply legendary.

2.  He now has 5 majors, and...

3.  He now has 3/4ths of the slam, which makes him the most major-winning active player not named Tiger, and in a very select group on the all-time major winners list.

Put me in the camp that says Phil will win a US Open, and I think it's a no-brainer that he wins another Masters.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by k-troop

For me the Open Championship win puts Phil on an entirely different plane for several reasons:

1.  It's an entirely different style of golf, and one to which Phil's game isn't necessarily suited.  He's not known for hitting low, shaping shots that use terrain, and Open courses require a lot of very precise lag putting.  That he could adapt his game is remarkable, but that he could do it with such a masterful performance on a Sunday when so many great players (Tiger, Zach, Westy, Scott, Hunter, etc) were grabbing and losing the lead was simply legendary.

2.  He now has 5 majors, and...

3.  He now has 3/4ths of the slam, which makes him the most major-winning active player not named Tiger, and in a very select group on the all-time major winners list.

Put me in the camp that says Phil will win a US Open, and I think it's a no-brainer that he wins another Masters.

I think it's quite possible that Phil will win a US Open and another Masters but it's far from a no-brainer. I think we are all getting caught up in his Open win where according to his caddy he played the best round of his life at the best possible time. The chances of this happening again is highly remote. Of course Phil has the talent, but Tiger, Rory, Dustin, Graeme, Westwood, Charl, Bubba and others are out there. Don't forget that before the Open, Phil had not won a major since the 2010 Masters so this doesn't happen on a regular basis and he is 43 years old.

I would not be surprised if he wins 2 more majors but it's not a no-brainer.

[MEfree]

I agree with MSchott...since we are talking future Phil, other than winning a US Open, what would help his legacy more?

A.  Winning the Vardon Trophy for low season long scoring average..

B.  Winning Player of the Year.

C.  Winning the most $ for a season.

D.  Winning the Fed Ex Cup.

E.  Becoming the OWGR #1.

Obviously, the OWGR and Fed Ex Cup were before Watson, Trevino, etc prime, but most of the other 15-20 guys mentioned as possible top 10 greats of all time have won at least one scoring title,  money title and/or Player of the Year award.  Phil is probably the only player in that group who hasn't won any of these season long (or 2 season long, in the case of the OWGR) accomplishments.  (Note- with some of the really old guys, these titles might not have existed at the time, but they likely would have won at least one of them had they existed)

I say that if he wins the money title, Fed Ex Cup or PGA Championship this season, that he will also get the Player of the Year award.

[Grins]

Tack on six second-place finishes, most all-time, in the US Open & you have, imo, a top-ten of all time player. His only true impediment has been having a career overlapthe Tiger Era. In most any other era he would have been the top player. I would categorize his career much like Trevino's - Lee won 7 majors & probably would have won a lot more had he not had his career overlap Jack's. But Jack will tell you that Lee was the guy he worried about the most. I think this British Open win for Phil vaults him into the level of elite players of all time.

Imagine how many wins (including majors) Phil would've had if Tiger hadn't come along. Probably in the 60's or 70's. What's more impressive to me is when you look at the career wins list, other than Tiger, Phil, & Vijay, no current player has more than 20 wins. I'm not sure why, but it looks like ten wins nowadays is a great achievement. I can't see Dustin Johnson or Adam Scott, for example, with 40 wins when their carees are over. So it might not be an apples-to-apples comparison when stacking up tour wins to older generations of golfers. One thing I can say is Phil is entertaining to watch, even when he fails.

[Mr. Desmond]

What does this win do for Phil?

He is a golden, golf god.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by Grins

Imagine how many wins (including majors) Phil would've had if Tiger hadn't come along. Probably in the 60's or 70's.

Phil has 29 2nd place finishes (including ties for 2nd) in addition to his 42 PGA Tour wins- impressive for sure, but for him to have had 60+ without Tiger, it would mean that 18+ of those 2nds would have to have been wins...my guess is that no more than 10-12 of those were events Tiger won.  Sure, you could make the argument that Phil would have played differently without Tiger in the field, but...

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grins

Imagine how many wins (including majors) Phil would've had if Tiger hadn't come along. Probably in the 60's or 70's.

Phil has 29 2nd place finishes (including ties for 2nd) in addition to his 42 PGA Tour wins- impressive for sure, but for him to have had 60+ without Tiger, it would mean that 18+ of those 2nds would have to have been wins...my guess is that no more than 10-12 of those were events Tiger won.  Sure, you could make the argument that Phil would have played differently without Tiger in the field, but...

Tried to find a list of all his runner up finished, but couldn't find it quickly. The only additional major he would have if you took out Tiger would be the 2002 US Open at Bethpage.

[460CompMark]

i've heard some rumors about Phil as well.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by 460CompMark

i've heard some rumors about Phil as well.

What kind of rumors? Along the lines of what Erik was talking about a few days ago? Or rumors that he's planning to give up golf to open an alpaca farm?

[460CompMark]

what Erik was talking about.  i can't remember details though.  i think i remember something about a locker room.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by 460CompMark

i've heard some rumors about Phil as well.

If you hang around golf forums, you've heard them.

But it's about the golf, right?

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by 460CompMark

i've heard some rumors about Phil as well.

Can you be more vague, please.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by 460CompMark

i've heard some rumors about Phil as well.

I wish that every time some twit posted crap like this they were subject to the same conditions they would be confronted with if they were top say it publicly.

Put up or be sued.