Swing Speed w/ Different Clubs

[Mr Smell Good]

About 4 months ago when I got fitted for irons I learned that my swing speed with a 7-iron was about 90-92 MPH.  The club fitter considered this to be very high and the irons I was recommended were with extra stiff shafts.

4 days ago I went for a driver fitting and learned that on average I swing my driver about 97-99 MPH.  Common sense tells me this ratio is not ideal.  I know there was nothing wrong with the equipment.  When I really tried to swing hard, I could get the driver up to 115-120 but it felt very out of control.

What I'm wondering is, how much swing speed variation do you guys see with different clubs?  I believe the reason I don't swing hard with the driver is because I'm trying to focus on so many things to not mess up my shot and slice.  I probably use my arms too much to almost slow down my swing and keep it under control.  That can't be good.

[rehmwa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Smell Good

About 4 months ago when I got fitted for irons I learned that my swing speed with a 7-iron was about 90-92 MPH.  The club fitter considered this to be very high and the irons I was recommended were with extra stiff shafts.

oh no, another bragging thread....

Quote:

4 days ago I went for a driver fitting and learned that on average I swing my driver about 97-99 MPH.  Common sense tells me this ratio is not ideal.  I know there was nothing wrong with the equipment.  When I really tried to swing hard, I could get the driver up to 115-120 but it felt very out of control.

oh no, self deprecating.....

I'm so confused, clearly this is a sincere thread and I don't know how to mock it.  Crap.

(I'd like to get my speeds measured too on my irons, I've always wondered the ratios too.  It'll happen this winter on the Trackman....good luck finding your answer)

[Mr Smell Good]

oh no, another bragging thread....

oh no, self deprecating.....

I'm so confused, clearly this is a sincere thread and I don't know how to mock it.  Crap.

(I'd like to get my speeds measured too on my irons, I've always wondered the ratios too.  It'll happen this winter on the Trackman....good luck finding your answer)

You won't find me bragging in a single post on here.  Self-depreciating is much more likely.  If I'm playing well I average bogey golf but even that isn't consistent. It's more like par, double, par, double, etc.

Really what I want to accomplish here is figure out how to control my driver better because right now the driver and iron swing feel like two completely different things and getting better at one is messing with the other.

[Mr Smell Good]

How about this... here is an excerpt from an article I read:

"Study a few golfers on the range. You'll notice some golfers who seem to take mighty swats at the ball, yet their golf balls don't travel any remarkable distance despite the expenditure of energy. Then you see other golfers, whose swings seem slow, perhaps extremely slow. Yet, just prior to the “click” when club meets ball, you hear the whirring sound as the shaft and club head scream through the air. The swing is slow and effortless, but the club head is fast.

The first golfer is trying to muscle the ball by snapping his wrists early, thinking that he is generating power. The second golfer is taking advantage of angular momentum, keeping his wrists cocked until nearly the end of the downstroke."

I really want to achieve this club head lag and "crack the whip" motion in my driver swing.  How does one accomplish this while maintaining control over the club face at impact?

[rehmwa]

goofball - I was just being a bit mockery at a clearly sincere post - it's good to see legitimate questions.  I wish I could help.  someone here will.

good luck finding your answer - harnessing that energy into your driver would be nice

"par, double, double, wet golf ball, killed a duck with a bad swing"  sounds like one my games last week...

there's some drills on holding your lag and snapping the release at the right time - I'll do a search and see if it's in the history.  it's good stuff....

[Mr Smell Good]

goofball - I was just being a bit mockery at a clearly sincere post - it's good to see legitimate questions.  I wish I could help.  someone here will.

good luck finding your answer - harnessing that energy into your driver would be nice

"par, double, double, wet golf ball, killed a duck with a bad swing"  sounds like one my games last week...

there's some drills on holding your lag and snapping the release at the right time - I'll do a search and see if it's in the history.  it's good stuff....

I know, just wanted to establish that I'm in no way trying to brag.  You're an 8 handicap so I'm assuming either you have this release figured out a lot better than me or you are one heck of a good chipper and putter.  Did it just start to click for you at some point with a lot of practice or did you use these drills?

[Golfingdad]

About 4 months ago when I got fitted for irons I learned that my swing speed with a 7-iron was about 90-92 MPH.

4 days ago I went for a driver fitting and learned that on average I swing my driver about 97-99 MPH.  Common sense tells me this ratio is not ideal.

I agree.  It's been awhile since I've actually had to use basic physics, so I may be getting this wrong.  However, I am pretty sure that the relationship between the 2 swing speeds should be linear ... which means that if you swing a 7 iron (usually around 37" long) at 90mph (yes, that is very fast), then the same swing should produce somewhere around a 109-110 driver swing speed (assuming 45" long).

Likewise, if your "normal" driver swing is 99, then a 7 iron swing should be somewhere in the vicinity of 81-82 mph.  I say it's one of 3 things ...

1.  You swing out of your ass (perhaps without realizing it) with your 7 iron and need to tone it down a bit.

2.  Your 7 iron swing is normal and you are holding back too much with your driver swing.  (Don't swing out of control to produce a 120 mph, but in control and still hard, to get somewhere around 110 - which is still really fast)

3.  The machine is broken. ;)  Or, you went to two different places and they are calibrated differently.

It could also be something else entirely, but I'm guessing it's one of those. ;)

[Mr Smell Good]

I agree.  It's been awhile since I've actually had to use basic physics, so I may be getting this wrong.  However, I am pretty sure that the relationship between the 2 swing speeds should be linear ... which means that if you swing a 7 iron (usually around 37" long) at 90mph (yes, that is very fast), then the same swing should produce somewhere around a 109-110 driver swing speed (assuming 45" long).

Likewise, if your "normal" driver swing is 99, then a 7 iron swing should be somewhere in the vicinity of 81-82 mph.  I say it's one of 3 things ...

1.  You swing out of your ass (perhaps without realizing it) with your 7 iron and need to tone it down a bit.

2.  Your 7 iron swing is normal and you are holding back too much with your driver swing.  (Don't swing out of control to produce a 120 mph, but in control and still hard, to get somewhere around 110 - which is still really fast)

3.  The machine is broken. ;)  Or, you went to two different places and they are calibrated differently.

It could also be something else entirely, but I'm guessing it's one of those. ;)

Thanks for the reply.  I'll eliminate option 3 as I went to the same place both times and it's the most well known and well regarded fitting studio in the Sacramento area from what I've heard.

I'm pretty sure it's 2.  Here's what I'm experiencing during my swings:

7-iron: I focus on keeping that left arm straight and getting my weight forward at impact.  Squaring the clubface usually takes care of itself.

Driver: I think about taking the club back directly behind the ball.  I use a slightly slower backswing (I think).  I really focus on getting full extension with my arms to avoid the dreaded slice.  I also think about following through every time.

With the iron, a lot of the basic swing mechanics seem to fall into place without a lot of extra thoughts. With the driver not so much.  I feel like if I don't focus on all these things during the swing I will slice and put myself out of play, cost me penalty strokes every hole, etc.

[Golfingdad]

Thanks for the reply.  I'll eliminate option 3 as I went to the same place both times and it's the most well known and well regarded fitting studio in the Sacramento area from what I've heard.

I'm pretty sure it's 2.  Here's what I'm experiencing during my swings:

7-iron: I focus on keeping that left arm straight and getting my weight forward at impact.  Squaring the clubface usually takes care of itself.

Driver: I think about taking the club back directly behind the ball.  I use a slightly slower backswing (I think).  I really focus on getting full extension with my arms to avoid the dreaded slice.  I also think about following through every time.

With the iron, a lot of the basic swing mechanics seem to fall into place without a lot of extra thoughts. With the driver not so much.  I feel like if I don't focus on all these things during the swing I will slice and put myself out of play, cost me penalty strokes every hole, etc.

Oh, I forgot about option 4:  A combination of 1 and 2.  You could be swinging a little too hard with your 7 iron AND a little too easy with your driver.  Split the difference and you could be golden!

I just went and looked at your swing thread.  I watched the last couple of videos where you posted an iron, 3w, and driver, from the same day.  (Nice swing, by the way!  I envy the position you get to at the top of your backswing in some of those still photos.  That's what I'm working on!)  You have a really quick tempo, and I could certainly be wrong, but it seems a little quicker with the driver than the 8 iron or PW videos.  Even though the short irons are also quick, they appear a bit smoother.  Perhaps you are simply "wasting" some energy on the backswing?  I don't know.  I do know, though, that a fast backswing is not necessary for power.  If you look at my swing, you'll see that I have a pretty slow backswing, and I almost pause at the top a hair, and I can get it out there OK.  I don't know.  I'm just throwing stuff out there.  I'm not an expert, and I'm not a teacher, but just spewing out some ideas in case something clicks.  Don't take any of it too seriously though! ;)

Good luck!

[Mr Smell Good]

I think you're right about option 4.

I've made a lot of improvements in my game over the last 6 months since I joined this forum.  It's very easy for me to understand the concepts involved in creating a better swing but very difficult for me to implement.  I look at better players and I see that whipping motion at impact created by having more lag and I fully understand that achieving that will help me but I simply can't get my body to do it.  I feel like when I'm swinging I'm flexing my arms and forearms but to get the whip motion you almost have to let them hang freely and move as a result of your hips and shoulders.  But when I try to do that, I have zero control at impact.

Trying to slow down my backswing couldn't hurt.

[WUTiger]

I agree.  It's been awhile since I've actually had to use basic physics, so I may be getting this wrong.  However, I am pretty sure that the relationship between the 2 swing speeds should be linear ... which means that if you swing a 7 iron (usually around 37" long) at 90mph (yes, that is very fast), then the same swing should produce somewhere around a 109-110 driver swing speed (assuming 45" long). ...

One thing to consider: The linearity might have a break point when you shift from steel- shafted to graphite-shafted clubs.

A supposed benefit of a proper-flex graphite shaft is more efficient energy transfer, so you might have a greater-than-linear increase in speed once you get into hybrids and FWs.

[Kujan]

Hey thanks for pointing out that the whip action should be what happens at impact. Lately I've been mistakenly thinking it's what happens at the transition at the start of the downswing. As a result was thinking I needed to be quicker going back to generate the whip action at the top. Better to swing the club back at a speed that's comfortable for me. Tempo, tempo, tempo.

[Russtopher]

Definitely agree on the slower backswing and not turning on the juice until later in the downswing.

When I have a slower backswing, it allows my body time to start the downswing from the ground up. Still working on the hips, but when the backswing and transition are slower, there's a pause at the top of the backswing where gravity starts the club down - that's when I start the hips and go. When my backswing is too fast, I start the downswing with my arms, and that's a guaranteed OTT slice for me.

[Dinosaur]

Clubhead speed gap between clubs is usually 2 mph.

[Mr Smell Good]

Clubhead speed gap between clubs is usually 2 mph.

So ideally it would look something like this?

7 - 90

6 - 92

5 - 94

4 - 96

3 - 98

3W - 100

Driver - 102

[Mr Smell Good]

Definitely agree on the slower backswing and not turning on the juice until later in the downswing.

When I have a slower backswing, it allows my body time to start the downswing from the ground up. Still working on the hips, but when the backswing and transition are slower, there's a pause at the top of the backswing where gravity starts the club down - that's when I start the hips and go. When my backswing is too fast, I start the downswing with my arms, and that's a guaranteed OTT slice for me.

I will be hitting the range at lunch today and trying out a slower backswing.

[Golfingdad]

So ideally it would look something like this?

7 - 90

6 - 92

5 - 94

4 - 96

3 - 98

3W - 100

Driver - 102

No, I don't think so.  Maybe because of what wutiger said about switching from steel to graphite though?

I have been on Trackman a couple of times.  Once when getting fitted for my irons, and once when testing out drivers at Callaway.  My 7 iron SS at the fitting averaged 85.2 mph.  When testing out drivers, I was getting SS's around 107-108 ... and although I'm not terribly consistent with my contact and results, I think I'm pretty consistent with my tempo and swing speeds.

[saevel25]

There is usually a 2 mph gap between clubs. But the driver and 3 wood are not that close to the irons.

If you look at the Trackman averages for the pro's, there 3 iron to driver is about a 14 mph gap

Lets say,

Driver: 110

3-wood: 107

5-wood: 104

3-iron: 96

4-iron: 94

5-iron: 92

6-iron: 90

7-iron: 88

9-iron: 86

PW: 84

Is probably an accurate spread.

For irons, its usually 0.5" difference in club length, and 3-4 degree drop in loft, usually 4 degree drop for the higher lofted clubs, and 3 for the lower lofted clubs.