Trackman / Flightscope face angle question

[atanum]

How does one know the face angle presented at impact is indeed open ( closed ) and is not the face angle opening (closing) due to gear effect of a toe ( heel) strike as I believe these units derive these values after impact ? Thanks for your help/insights

[Stretch]

You watch the ball.

If it draws but the radar shows the face significantly open to the path, you can be pretty confident it was a toe strike. And vice versa.

[atanum]

True. But I can never get the real club face angle right ? So, lets say I have an "actual" (6,3) push draw strike, but my trackman shows (6,4) due to 1/2 " crown side toe strike , ball flight will still be push draw. Any thoughts on GC / I would imagine optics should be able to get it right

[iacas]

No, it can't measure the actual clubface, but it doesn't take very much experience at all to know whether the ball was heeled, toed, etc.

[atanum]

Sure . I guess I will put the question other way round. Let's say I know the ball was toed and lets say I also want to measure by how much , through some marker on the face, is it then possible to calibrate for the actual face angle ? Possible - but too complicated for getting a generalized compensation. I guess optics is the only way , but at that frequency the sampling rates will be very high and the economics are not that compelling. Thanks for your help.

[Fried Egg]

Spin Axis will be larger than it would be with the same face/path numbers on a "centered" strike.

[atanum]

Yes, but we don't know by how much and that is why a calibration. But that is complicated because club head shape, loft variation across the face, shaft properties etc will determine the bending moment due to gear effect eg. Trackman estimates face based on AoA, Launch Angle and path primarily. So , net-net we have an idea but we do not know the club face angle at impact. So then comes the question, how correct are the ball flight law assumptions that initial direction of launch is based on the face angle ? Trackman assumes 85 deg face for initial launch. Enzo and computer simulations show 60 percent is dependent on face. So, I think this perhaps has deeper implications on our assumptions and understanding of ball flight physics.

[iacas]

So then comes the question, how correct are

the ball flight law assumptions that initial

direction of launch is based on the face angle ?

Trackman assumes 85 deg face for initial launch.

Enzo and computer simulations show 60 percent

is dependent on face. So, I think this perhaps

has deeper implications on our assumptions and understanding of

ball flight physics.

It doesn't assume that, no. It knows it can go down to even 60%, and they've verified with super-high-speed cameras. 85% is the average with a driver.

In use, if you've spent 10 minutes with a Trackman or Flightscope and understand the basic physics of it all, this doesn't present even a small problem. You can throw away the really bad mishits (which you do anyway), and the minor ones are almost smack-you-upside-the-head obvious.

You don't need to keep hitting carriage returns when you type.