Golf is for the upper class?

[Hammer 4]

Well, the so  called Decline in incomes in America sure hasn't hurt the number of golfers at the local muni courses. When I played allot just over 10 yrs ago, was fairly easy to walk on during the late morning, or early afternoon. Now just going to the range, I see up to 10 or more groups with carts waiting to get on, and this is on a weekday. So from what I see, golf is way more popular than 10 yrs ago. The crowds are almost ridiculous.

OT, you want to take part in an Expensive sport, try auto, or motorcycle  racing.

[MS256]

If you talk to the course owners in rural or low income areas, and check the stats on how many courses are on the verge of bankruptcy, and how many have closed down altogether in the last 5 years, you will change your mind. I hear that side of it every day and most courses are hurting for numbers. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/golf-349198-says-courses.html

[Hammer 4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer 4

Well, the so  called Decline in incomes in America sure hasn't hurt the number of golfers at the local muni courses. When I played allot just over 10 yrs ago, was fairly easy to walk on during the late morning, or early afternoon. Now just going to the range, I see up to 10 or more groups with carts waiting to get on, and this is on a weekday. So from what I see, golf is way more popular than 10 yrs ago. The crowds are almost ridiculous.

OT, you want to take part in an Expensive sport, try auto, or motorcycle  racing.

If you talk to the course owners in rural or low income areas, and check the stats on how many courses are on the verge of bankruptcy, and how many have closed down altogether in the last 5 years, you will change your mind.

I hear that side of it every day and most courses are hurting for numbers.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/golf-349198-says-courses.html

That may be true. The courses I'm talking about are in middle income areas, and in well populated areas of Los Angeles.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer 4

Well, the so  called Decline in incomes in America sure hasn't hurt the number of golfers at the local muni courses. When I played allot just over 10 yrs ago, was fairly easy to walk on during the late morning, or early afternoon. Now just going to the range, I see up to 10 or more groups with carts waiting to get on, and this is on a weekday. So from what I see, golf is way more popular than 10 yrs ago. The crowds are almost ridiculous.

OT, you want to take part in an Expensive sport, try auto, or motorcycle  racing.

If you talk to the course owners in rural or low income areas, and check the stats on how many courses are on the verge of bankruptcy, and how many have closed down altogether in the last 5 years, you will change your mind.

I hear that side of it every day and most courses are hurting for numbers.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/golf-349198-says-courses.html

That may be true. The courses I'm talking about are in middle income areas, and in well populated areas of Los Angeles.

And Denver, and most any other metropolitan area.  Even in smaller cities the available courses tend to be busy.   The problem with rural areas is that they simply don't have a large enough population base to work with.  Any downturn at all and they have nothing to fall back on.

And trying to bring in a mother of 4 working at McDonald's is a rather extreme and unlikely comparison, since that family would be living below the poverty level.  People living that poorly never have been and never will be part of the golfing population, so any such comparison is irrelevant.

[MS256]

Of course it's an extreme comparison, and was meant to be. To them I'm rich. To me the people at the country club are rich. To them the members at Augusta are rich. So when somebody asks if golf is for the upper class the answer depends on who you ask. And as has already been said it's not for the poor.

[David in FL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

And Denver, and most any other metropolitan area.  Even in smaller cities the available courses tend to be busy.   The problem with rural areas is that they simply don't have a large enough population base to work with.  Any downturn at all and they have nothing to fall back on.

And trying to bring in a mother of 4 working at McDonald's is a rather extreme and unlikely comparison, since that family would be living below the poverty level.  People living that poorly never have been and never will be part of the golfing population, so any such comparison is irrelevant.

Of course it's an extreme comparison, and was meant to be. To them I'm rich. To me the people at the country club are rich. To them the members at Augusta are rich. So when somebody asks if golf is for the upper class the answer depends on who you ask. And as has already been said it's not for the poor .

But again, that wasn't the question....

[MS256]

Depends on how you interpret the question. Asking whether a sport is "for" a group to me means do they have a reasonable chance to play it to a high level. Obviously to you it means is there a way to play occasionally.

[David in FL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL


But again, that wasn't the question....

Depends on how you interpret the question. Asking whether a sport is "for" a group to me means do they have a reasonable chance to play it to a high level. Obviously to you it means is there a way to play occasionally.

No, to me it means that they can play and enjoy the game regardless of their skill level. I certainly consider golf to be "for me".......and I'm anything but upper class, nor do I play to a particularly high level. Do you consider golf to be "for you"? Are you "upper class" by generally accepted standards?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

But again, that wasn't the question....

Depends on how you interpret the question. Asking whether a sport is "for" a group to me means do they have a reasonable chance to play it to a high level.

Obviously to you it means is there a way to play occasionally.

No it doesn't.  I'll never play it at a high level.  I have never had any desire to do so.  I play for fun, recreation, and social interaction.  That only requires a level of proficiency to be able to keep a ball in play most of the time.  I spent 35 years playing only weekend golf, working 5 or 6 days a week, 50+ hours, as a machinist.  Most players never have it in their heads to play "at a high level".  They want to go out with friends or family and have fun.  That only requires a minimal investment in the game.

A set of mid range clubs can easily serve for more than 10 years.  The game doesn't require that you turn your whole set over every 2 years like half the people on the internet seem to do.  You barely have to buy balls if you keep your eyes open while walking through the rough.  I know guys who haven't bought a ball in years, and they don't spend time ball hawking either.  Golf doesn't require you to take expensive golfing vacations, or play the courses you read about in magazines or see on TV.  All it requires is for you to take your clubs to the local muni, pay your $25 green fees, then wait for your tee time to come up.  Just get out and have fun.

[Spitfisher]

Nope not at all. Maybe back before Tiger hit the tour. Since him golf has become very affordable and has reached many wealth levels.

How does this ( tiger ) explain that golfs " participation " since Tiger turned pro (2000) has steadily declined and that rounds of golf have been flat to down of existing golfers for more over a decade? Golf is watched more on TV, but so has hockey. There are plenty of pink hats that watch both, many have no intention of lacing up skates or suddenly showing up to lay golf. The point is they enjoy watching.

[MS256]

"It doesn't"? Just because it doesn't to you doesn't mean it doesn't to anyone else. It certainly does to me. If somebody asks if basketball is "for" somebody that's 4'11" most people would say no (at least they would around here). He can buy a basketball and go to the park and play but it's probably not taking him anywhere. If somebody asks if golf is "for" the upper class why would the meaning change? Most people where I live would say that golf is for the upper class and "upper class" to them is probably middle class to a lot of people. They wouldn't mean that nobody else can play. Just that it's probably not taking them anywhere. Oh and David. I didn't see your question to me in time to use the multi-quote but if somebody asked me if golf was for me I would not only say no, but Hell no, but I would say that I love it anyway and will play every chance I get. (And I'm far, far away from upper class.)

[David in FL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No it doesn't.  I'll never play it at a high level.  I have never had any desire to do so.  I play for fun, recreation, and social interaction.  That only requires a level of proficiency to be able to keep a ball in play most of the time.  I spent 35 years playing only weekend golf, working 5 or 6 days a week, 50+ hours, as a machinist.  Most players never have it in their heads to play "at a high level".  They want to go out with friends or family and have fun.  That only requires a minimal investment in the game.

A set of mid range clubs can easily serve for more than 10 years.  The game doesn't require that you turn your whole set over every 2 years like half the people on the internet seem to do.  You barely have to buy balls if you keep your eyes open while walking through the rough.  I know guys who haven't bought a ball in years, and they don't spend time ball hawking either.  Golf doesn't require you to take expensive golfing vacations, or play the courses you read about in magazines or see on TV.  All it requires is for you to take your clubs to the local muni, pay your $25 green fees, then wait for your tee time to come up.  Just get out and have fun.

"It doesn't"? Just because it doesn't to you doesn't mean it doesn't to anyone else. It certainly does to me. If somebody asks if basketball is "for" somebody that's 4'11" most people would say no (at least they would around here). He can buy a basketball and go to the park and play but it's probably not taking him anywhere. If somebody asks if golf is "for" the upper class why would the meaning change? Most people where I live would say that golf is for the upper class and "upper class" to them is probably middle class to a lot of people. They wouldn't mean that nobody else can play. Just that it's probably not taking them anywhere. Oh and David. I didn't see your question to me in time to use the multi-quote but if somebody asked me if golf was for me I would not only say no, but Hell no, but I would say that I love it anyway and will play every chance I get. (And I'm far, far away from upper class.)

I suspect you're the only person in the world to interpret that particular phrase in that manner. I'm equally sure that the OP did not mean it in that way.

[MS256]

And you would suspect wrong. Anyway, I'm done with regional interpretations for the night.

[BENtSwing]

Just wondering what people think on the idea. Golf is pretty much seen as the sport for the rich with fancy country clubs, expensive green fees and all the other things that go with it. Im the opposite to most golfers my age I know. I have no friends that play or are even interested in it but when I meet people my age that golf we usually arent very similiar. Though I feel golf is loosing the identity of being an upper class sport that is reserved for rich country club folk.

Anyone have any thoughts on this??

I don't feel that golf is perceived that way at all. Mind if I ask where you are from?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No it doesn't.  I'll never play it at a high level.  I have never had any desire to do so.  I play for fun, recreation, and social interaction.  That only requires a level of proficiency to be able to keep a ball in play most of the time.  I spent 35 years playing only weekend golf, working 5 or 6 days a week, 50+ hours, as a machinist.  Most players never have it in their heads to play "at a high level".  They want to go out with friends or family and have fun.  That only requires a minimal investment in the game.

A set of mid range clubs can easily serve for more than 10 years.  The game doesn't require that you turn your whole set over every 2 years like half the people on the internet seem to do.  You barely have to buy balls if you keep your eyes open while walking through the rough.  I know guys who haven't bought a ball in years, and they don't spend time ball hawking either.  Golf doesn't require you to take expensive golfing vacations, or play the courses you read about in magazines or see on TV.  All it requires is for you to take your clubs to the local muni, pay your $25 green fees, then wait for your tee time to come up.  Just get out and have fun.

"It doesn't"? Just because it doesn't to you doesn't mean it doesn't to anyone else. It certainly does to me.

If somebody asks if basketball is "for" somebody that's 4'11" most people would say no (at least they would around here). He can buy a basketball and go to the park and play but it's probably not taking him anywhere.

If somebody asks if golf is "for" the upper class why would the meaning change?

Most people where I live would say that golf is for the upper class and "upper class" to them is probably middle class to a lot of people. They wouldn't mean that nobody else can play. Just that it's probably not taking them anywhere.

Oh and David. I didn't see your question to me in time to use the multi-quote but if somebody asked me if golf was for me I would not only say no, but Hell no, but I would say that I love it anyway and will play every chance I get. (And I'm far, far away from upper class.)

I suspect you're the only person in the world to interpret that particular phrase in that manner. I'm equally sure that the OP did not mean it in that way.

I agree with you David, the general golfing public would too.  But I'm tired of arguing the point.  I've made my case that golf can easily be a game for the unwashed masses, and 99% of the people I've played with in the last 40 years would agree with us.   MS256 can think what he wants.... doesn't make him right.

[Parker0065]

Not hard at all. Like anything else, it just needs to be something you want to do. Show of hands.......how many members on this site have family, kids, jobs, and other pastimes?

Wow, look at all those hands up!

Um yes!!!!!! My hand is raised high in the air!!!!!

[mailman]

No, what it takes is knowing how to budget your time so you can do the things that are important in your life.

Exactly and for many Golf doesnt even cross their minds when the priority is to pay the mortgage, rent, food, kids schooling, clothing and thats without even going in to competition from other past times etc. Golf is an expensive sport and when people merely scratch the surface and see how much a set of clubs can cost, clothes, balls, rounds played at courses they see on tv then its no wonder some people might have the perception golf is for the rich.

My next door neighbor back in Colorado has twin girls, so everything they do has to be done by twos.  He wasn't really even a golfer himself, just played 2 or 3 times a year, but he wanted to expose the girls to everything he could.  About 4 years ago they got starter sets and he enrolled them in the junior workshop at the district course where the workshop takes over the par 3 course for 2 weeks straight.  He plays more now than he did before because he gets out with the girls in the evening or on a Saturday morning for 9 holes on the par 3 or the Executive 9.  It's all about how you choose to use your time and entertainment budget.  For them, golf is cheaper than going to the movies.

Well thats no different to me saying my neighbour who would love to play golf at least once a month cant because he has small kids to look after...doesnt really prove anything either way.

But what you cannot argue is that if you do not have either the money or the time then you arent going to be playing golf AND because of this many people will have the perception that golf is for the rich and wealthy.

Mailman

[dfreuter415]

It's not a coincidence that the top 2 golfers on our local high school's golf team every single year belong to the same country club and live in the upscale community around the course. They have access to unlimited golf and their parents have them working with the pro at the course from elementary school age on. They can enter any junior tournament they desire and have only the best equipment. Golf is the only sport at the school where it can be predicted with near 100% certainty which neighborhood the best players will come from and how much money their parents have

Before I retired I was a junior varsity coach, and to a great extent, your premise has great validity. The golfers on the varsity team usually were also members at local clubs. However, as the JV coach I would have about half country clubs and half municipal players.

I particularly loved this arrangement, because I had an opportunity to do more teaching than the varsity coach, who players usually took lessons from their local pro. To be truthful, not many of the muni players became starters, but occasionally one of the non-country club players that I worked with on the JV would become a starter.

One other note: programs like First Tee can make a difference in bringing golf to youth who normally do not have access to the courses or equipment.

Post script :  Our varsity team has been first or second in their section of play for the last 20+ years, basically because the teams they play against have a lot more municipal player then we do.