Patrick Reed - Is he arrogant?

[Lihu]

Bad analogy. Like, really bad.  I don't think someone saying they aren't ugly compares with telling people that you're a top 5 player in the world, when there's a system for determining that, and you clearly are not.  It also doesn't compare to rattling off every single accomplishment you've had since you were 12 in a 60 second post round interview, and then REPEATING that you're a top 5 player in the world, when even after your victory, you still are not.   Worlds apart from your silly analogy.

Saying you're a top 5 player when you're not( regardless of  if you've played long enough) is not "confidence." It's just incorrect.  I think that when a professional athlete ignores a statistical system and puts himself ahead of his peers, that's 100% immature and arrogant.  Imagine if the Broncos were in 3rd place in the AFC West and in a post game interview, Peyton Manning said, "we're the number one team in our division".  People would say, huh?  No you're not. You're in third. We have a system for that.  Same thing here.

Not sure if you agree with this, but what miniscule research I did seemed to coincide with the plots and the trends that are show in this article.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/03/fact-check-is-patrick-reed-really-a-top-five-player-in-the-w.html

Like Luke Kerr-Dineen said, if the trend continues, it won't take long. His playing field is also much harder than in the past.

[albatross]

Bad analogy. Like, really bad.  I don't think someone saying they aren't ugly compares with telling people that you're a top 5 player in the world, when there's a system for determining that, and you clearly are not.  It also doesn't compare to rattling off every single accomplishment you've had since you were 12 in a 60 second post round interview, and then REPEATING that you're a top 5 player in the world.

Not sure if you agree with this, but what miniscule research I did seemed to coincide with the plots and the trends that are show in this article.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/03/fact-check-is-patrick-reed-really-a-top-five-player-in-the-w.html

Like Luke Kerr-Dineen said, if the trend continues, it won't take long. His playing field is also much harder than in the past.

With the system they are using at the time, like the article says, he was 20th after the win.  Also why I said in my last post that I realize he hasn't played for the rolling period of time.  Doesn't matter. You still don't run your mouth about numbers, when there are 5 guys in those spots.  If anything else, it's disrespectful to those players.

[Lihu]

With the system they are using at the time, like the article says, he was 20th after the win.

The question is whether or not he is one of the top 5 players, and not his current world ranking. Many times the rankings lag ability.

We'll see if his ranking proves his statement, eventually.

[Golfingdad]

Imagine if the Broncos were in 3rd place in the AFC West and in a post game interview, Peyton Manning said, "we're the number one team in our division".  People would say, huh?  No you're not. You're in third. We have a system for that.  Same thing here.

Uh uh.  If they asked him "Hey Peyton, how do you feel your team is playing right now?"  And he responds with "We are hot, I think we can beat anybody playing the way we're playing right now."  That would be a pretty fair comparison.  Reed was saying how he felt his game, right then, ranked amongst his peers.  He wasn't saying that the OWGR was wrong.

[albatross]

Uh uh.  If they asked him "Hey Peyton, how do you feel your team is playing right now?"  And he responds with "We are hot, I think we can beat anybody playing the way we're playing right now."  That would be a pretty fair comparison.  Reed was saying how he felt his game, right then, ranked amongst his peers.  He wasn't saying that the OWGR was wrong.

Even if he wasn't talking about the official rankings, it's completely arrogant to tell everyone you're a top 5 player in your post round interview. If you have to tell people how great you are, you aren't as great as you think.  That applies just about everywhere in life.  Jack and Tiger never had to tell the world how great they were or what number in the world they felt they were.  The world told them, and their dominance took care of the rest.

We obviously aren't going to agree on that point, which is fine. I'm more for humble confidence, and you're not. No one is wrong here.

I do have a question.  Does anyone have a link to his immediate post round interview?  It used to be on youtube, but I don't see it now.  I've watched it a couple times, but I'd like to watch it again now that there's been so much discussion about it, but I can't find it anymore.

[Golfingdad]

Even if he wasn't talking about the official rankings, it's completely arrogant to tell everyone you're a top 5 player in your post round interview. If you have to tell people how great you are, you aren't as great as you think.

I don't really take issue with you or anybody else thinking he's arrogant, but I don't think you're evaluating him fairly.  You keep saying that he "keeps telling" people that he's good.  He never did that.  He didn't just walk up to a microphone and start talking about how great he was like some rap artist or something.  He just answered a question.  The answered it again.  And again.  And again.  And again.  Call him arrogant because of the one "top 5" comment, but don't beat him up because "he keeps telling us."  It's not his fault people keep asking him the same stupid question.

Jack and Tiger never had to tell the world how great they were or what number in the world they felt they were.

I don't think that's totally true.  I remember at least once where Tiger said in a press conference that he expects to win every tournament he enters.  And he even said it in a challenging way, like "Why the **** would you even ask me that question?"  That, to me, is 1000 times more arrogant than what Reed said.  But its OK to most people, because we were already huge fans of his and wanted him to win every tournament.

We obviously aren't going to agree on that point, which is fine. I'm more for humble confidence, and you're not. No one is wrong here.

Not true.  I am absolutely more for humble confidence than arrogance.  The difference is that I am giving this kid (remember, he's not a polished TV star, he's still a kid) the benefit of the doubt.  I way prefer the quiet guy like Matt Kuchar, just like you.

[RiverForestKid]

I think Patrick has been the outsider trying to get inside in a sport where such things still matter to a certain extent.

[pumaAttack]

Not the best quality but theres the interview...

[albatross]

I don't really take issue with you or anybody else thinking he's arrogant, but I don't think you're evaluating him fairly.  You keep saying that he "keeps telling" people that he's good.  He never did that.  He didn't just walk up to a microphone and start talking about how great he was like some rap artist or something.  He just answered a question.  The answered it again.  And again.  And again.  And again.  Call him arrogant because of the one "top 5" comment, but don't beat him up because "he keeps telling us."  It's not his fault people keep asking him the same stupid question.

I don't think that's totally true.  I remember at least once where Tiger said in a press conference that he expects to win every tournament he enters.  And he even said it in a challenging way, like "Why the **** would you even ask me that question?"  That, to me, is 1000 times more arrogant than what Reed said.  But its OK to most people, because we were already huge fans of his and wanted him to win every tournament.

Not true.  I am absolutely more for humble confidence than arrogance.  The difference is that I am giving this kid (remember, he's not a polished TV star, he's still a kid) the benefit of the doubt.  I way prefer the quiet guy like Matt Kuchar, just like you.

What are you talking about?  When did someone ask him the question "Patrick, what number rank do you consider yourself?"  I sure don't remember anyone asking him that question either of the 2 times he said it.  He did actually step up to a microphone and say he thought he was one of the top 5 players.  No one asked that specifically.

As far as Tiger, he started saying that he expects to win every tournament at about the same time that he started winning almost every tournament. Patrick Reed is a hell of a long ways away from winning majors by double digits.  I'm not saying Tiger was never arrogant, but I cut him a little more slack because he had backed it up in a ridiculous way.  That being said, there are definitely times that I felt Tiger was being too arrogant.  Just for my taste or liking.  Everyone is different.

With 14 major championships, might come a little arrogance.  A lot different than a post round interview at Doral.

[albatross]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4zqYco55uE

Not the best quality but theres the interview...

Thanks!  Wow. Ok.  I just re-watched this, and it's even worse than I thought it was before.  This will be my last Patrick Reed post because I've wasted a lot of time on this guy.  ha ha.

Patrick quotes:

"I've had a lot of junior career wins" -  good for you Patrick.  Did you go for ice cream afterward?

"Done great things in my amateur career"

"Went 6-0 at NCAA match play"   - I'm sorry, but I can't imagine any of these other young guys quoting stats from college after winning a WGC event.  Seems cocky.

"Won NCAAs 2 years in a row"  By yourself, Patrick?  Well done.  I always thought that was a team event

"Finished 3rd individually one year"

"I don't see a lot of guys that have done that"

"I'm one of the top five players in the world"

No where in that interview was he asked to name accomplishments or talk about his ranking.  I'm truly done with this thread because if you can look at all of those quotes, and you don't think that it exudes even a little arrogance over confidence, I truly don't think you understand the difference in the terms.

Going to feel good to erase this thread from my subscriptions.  I'm taking it out of my Top 5. Goodbye Patrick Reed thread.

[Golfingdad]

What are you talking about?  When did someone ask him the question "Patrick, what number rank do you consider yourself?"  I sure don't remember anyone asking him that question either of the 2 times he said it.  He did actually step up to a microphone and say he thought he was one of the top 5 players.  No one asked that specifically.

You're absolutely wrong on this.  I watched the entire round on Sunday at Doral and it went something like this:

During the round, they cued up and played a clip of an interview from sometime in the previous week where they asked him something along the lines of "Where do you feel your game is at right now?"  or "How would you rank yourself right now?"  (I honestly cannot remember if they specifically used the word "rank" but I'm willing to stipulate that they didn't, because that's not really my point)

Then after the round, during his winners interview, Jerry Foltz (or whoever it was) specifically referenced the previous top 5 comment he made and asked if he'd like to clarify or retract that statement.  That is the point where the above video picks up, and the point where he decides to rattle off his resume.

Then since then, I'm sure he's been asked multiple times about the "top 5" comment or the listing of wins.

But, yes, he was absolutely asked a direct question that started this whole thing.

EDIT:  I went and tried to find video of the original interview, but had no luck.  However, ironically enough, I did find this: http://espn.go.com/golf/masters14/story/_/id/10694675/patrick-reed-turbulent-rise-stardom-golf

It's a long story, and I didn't read it all, but it sure has a lot of info that points to the fact that maybe he is, in fact, a bit arrogant.  Hmmm, maybe he stops getting the benefit of the doubt after all?? ;)

[albatross]

You're absolutely wrong on this.  I watched the entire round on Sunday at Doral and it went something like this:

During the round, they cued up and played a clip of an interview from sometime in the previous week where they asked him something along the lines of "Where do you feel your game is at right now?"  or "How would you rank yourself right now?"  (I honestly cannot remember if they specifically used the word "rank" but I'm willing to stipulate that they didn't, because that's not really my point)

Then after the round, during his winners interview, Jerry Foltz (or whoever it was) specifically referenced the previous top 5 comment he made and asked if he'd like to clarify or retract that statement.  That is the point where the above video picks up, and the point where he decides to rattle off his resume.

Then since then, I'm sure he's been asked multiple times about the "top 5" comment or the listing of wins.

But, yes, he was absolutely asked a direct question that started this whole thing.

EDIT:  I went and tried to find video of the original interview, but had no luck.  However, ironically enough, I did find this:  http://espn.go.com/golf/masters14/story/_/id/10694675/patrick-reed-turbulent-rise-stardom-golf

It's a long story, and I didn't read it all, but it sure has a lot of info that points to the fact that maybe he is, in fact, a bit arrogant.  Hmmm, maybe he stops getting the benefit of the doubt after all?? ;)

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. ha ha.  I had to check the thread again.  Your post of that article seals it up for me.  If his past teammates say that, you have to listen.  Lots of back and forth in this thread, but good discussion.  I'll tell you what.  If he posts a top ten this week, I'll change my avatar to Patrick Reed for 6 months.  Dear God, that will be painful, but I think I'm safe.

[saevel25]

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. ha ha.  I had to check the thread again.  Your post of that article seals it up for me.  If his past teammates say that, you have to listen.  Lots of back and forth in this thread, but good discussion.  I'll tell you what.  If he posts a top ten this week, I'll change my avatar to Patrick Reed for 6 months.  Dear God, that will be painful, but I think I'm safe.

COME ON PATRICK REED!!! I want to see this bird go down!!!

[albatross]

COME ON PATRICK REED!!! I want to see this bird go down!!!

Lol. Fair enough.  We'll see.

[Golfingdad]

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. ha ha.  I had to check the thread again.  Your post of that article seals it up for me.  If his past teammates say that, you have to listen.  Lots of back and forth in this thread, but good discussion.  I'll tell you what.  If he posts a top ten this week, I'll change my avatar to Patrick Reed for 6 months.  Dear God, that will be painful, but I think I'm safe. ;-)

Yeah, the article sheds different light on the guy for me too. [quote name="saevel25" url="/t/73117/patrick-reed-is-he-arrogant/180#post_974440"] COME ON PATRICK REED!!! I want to see this bird go down!!! :-P [/quote]Seriously. That bird gives me the heeby jeebies!!!!! ;)

[newtogolf]

Yeah, the article sheds different light on the guy for me too.

I wasn't surprised.  Reed didn't just gain this swagger / arrogance overnight, it's been long embedded into his overall character.  What will be interesting is if he stays true to himself and maintains the level of arrogance he's shown throughout his life or if he tries act more humble to gain popularity and endorsement deals.

[pumaAttack]

Reed has the confidence of somebody who has something to hide...

[saevel25]

Reed has the confidence of somebody who has something to hide...

You'd know this how?