How do you get into the low 80's from roughly the high 80's and low 90's?

[Meddle]

Improve your full swing ball striking. Anything else is just an attempt to compensate and won't get you there consistently.

Totally agree. The biggest difference between when I averaged in the 90s versus now comes down to knowing where my ball is going to go when I hit it. I also think the short game (chips and pitches) are similar to the full swing, so improving my full swing has helped my short game as well.

Getting there for me has simply come down to practicing and playing more often. I have seen some pretty ugly swings result in low 80's scores. Maybe to get down consistently in the 70s would take lessons and a more fundamentally sound swing, but 80s are attainable for a lot of people I think.

[CarlSpackler]

I would suggest focusing on process and your target. Stand behind your tee shot and take a deep breath exhaling slowly. Think only about the target and nothing else, not even the swing. It looks like you did better on the back nine than the front. Did you warm up before the round?

[dbrock504]

I would suggest focusing on process and your target. Stand behind your tee shot and take a deep breath exhaling slowly. Think only about the target and nothing else, not even the swing.

It looks like you did better on the back nine than the front. Did you warm up before the round?

I'm assuming you're talking to me? No sir, I was not able to warm up today. I was unaware the exit I take off the free way is under construction. I had to loop back and it cost me 15 minutes. I spent what little time I had (20 minutes) stretching and putting.

[JP golf]

I really think it boils down to knowledge of your own game.  If you know where you miss, you can play accordingly.  For example, I play with a friend who 80% of the time he misses the fairway it's left...  However, he continues to pick the same target line relative to center of the fairway time and time again.  If he played his shots to finish on the right side of the fairway his misses would end up in the fairway a lot more often.... At that point it's not even a swing adjustment, it's simply knowing his game and  making a small adjustment in alignment.

[Lihu]

I really think it boils down to knowledge of your own game.  If you know where you miss, you can play accordingly.  For example, I play with a friend who 80% of the time he misses the fairway it's left...  However, he continues to pick the same target line relative to center of the fairway time and time again.  If he played his shots to finish on the right side of the fairway his misses would end up in the fairway a lot more often.... At that point it's not even a swing adjustment, it's simply knowing his game and  making a small adjustment in alignment.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense.

At this point, I am making a lot of swing changes. So, it is hard for me to know what my misses will be in the future. I think it is better not to develop bad habits until I know my new swing better.

This morning, what you said would have helped my score by 4 or more strokes, but the strokes I would have gained would only be temporary when my new swing changes get ingrained.

The other issue with this morning was my clubs seemed to have gained about 5 yards and 2 yards right (I'm a lefty) since last night, no control and the direction changed from a slight fade to a draw. It's completely out of control. I know it's a setup issue of some kind.

So, once I ingrain this new swing, it will make sense to play my misses. Maybe your friend thinks he will improve his swing as well? I know it's frustrating for you to watch, as it was for my son.

[JP golf]

At this point, I am making a lot of swing changes. So, it is hard for me to know what my misses will be in the future. I think it is better not to develop bad habits until I know my new swing better.

So, once I ingrain this new swing, it will make sense to play my misses. Maybe your friend thinks he will improve his swing as well? I know it's frustrating for you to watch, as it was for my son.

What used to help me a lot was before the round, I would go hit about 35-40 balls at the range.  I'd hit 8, 6, 4 iron and I would concentrate on my swing thought.  I would pay attention to where I was missing some of my shots.  The goal of the range before the round isn't to tweak the swing, but to commit to a constant swing thought and play that shot shape for the day.   For me during a swing change the Pre-shot routine is absolutely a must and a key...

P.S.  I have a ton of fun playing now, it's not frustrating to watch, it's actually fun.  He asked me what he was doing wrong one day and I told him I would tell him after the round.  So the next round we played, I told him I'd give him $5 for every time he missed the fairway to the right, but he had to give me $2 every time he missed it left...    He started noticing what was happening - I told him keep the money after the round, the first lesson was on me... next time I'm charging lol...

[Lihu]

What used to help me a lot was before the round, I would go hit about 35-40 balls at the range.  I'd hit 8, 6, 4 iron and I would concentrate on my swing thought.  I would pay attention to where I was missing some of my shots.  The goal of the range before the round isn't to tweak the swing, but to commit to a constant swing thought and play that shot shape for the day.   For me during a swing change the Pre-shot routine is absolutely a must and a key...

P.S.  I have a ton of fun playing now, it's not frustrating to watch, it's actually fun.  He asked me what he was doing wrong one day and I told him I would tell him after the round.  So the next round we played, I told him I'd give him $5 for every time he missed the fairway to the right, but he had to give me $2 every time he missed it left...    He started noticing what was happening - I told him keep the money after the round, the first lesson was on me... next time I'm charging lol...

That was a great idea. My son would make out pretty well if we did this.

I plan to go to the range early enough next time to practice for at least half an hour. We barely got to the tee in time this morning.

BTW, what do you find out from the 4i that you don't from the 6i?

[JP golf]

BTW, what do you find out from the 4i that you don't from the 6i?

Actually, my 4 iron probably tells me more.  If I only have time for 5-10 swings, I'll go straight to 4 iron.  For the most part the 8,6,4 will all be doing the same thing, the 4 is just more exaggerated.  Keep in mind, there is a difference in hitting the range before playing a round for score - and hitting the range to work on your swing.  Don't mix the two.  You shouldn't be working on swing mechanics and trying to fix stuff when you're on the course unless you are playing for that sole reason.

I'd work the range completely different working on swing mechanics and maybe go play a few holes dropping balls at certain yardages.  When working on swing mechanics, I may hit a whole bucket with 6 iron.  When I practice, I usually have a purpose and will be working on multiple shot types or maybe a certain key...

Now days, I show up to the course and take a couple putts and warm up on the first 3 holes without hitting the range-   Unfortunately, it usually takes me 3-4 holes to find out what I'm doing that day (I don't try to correct it either, I'll just adjust my alignment slightly and keep swinging the same with the same swing thought)...    Honestly, I don't practice or warm up like I should, but I'm okay with that- I just go have fun now days and I'm not as concerned with score - I play to hit good shots (and fun stupid ones sometimes, that I have not business trying lol)...

[dbrock504]

Actually, my 4 iron probably tells me more.  If I only have time for 5-10 swings, I'll go straight to 4 iron.  For the most part the 8,6,4 will all be doing the same thing, the 4 is just more exaggerated.  Keep in mind, there is a difference in hitting the range before playing a round for score - and hitting the range to work on your swing.  Don't mix the two.  You shouldn't be working on swing mechanics and trying to fix stuff when you're on the course unless you are playing for that sole reason.

I'd work the range completely different working on swing mechanics and maybe go play a few holes dropping balls at certain yardages.  When working on swing mechanics, I may hit a whole bucket with 6 iron.  When I practice, I usually have a purpose and will be working on multiple shot types or maybe a certain key...

Now days, I show up to the course and take a couple putts and warm up on the first 3 holes without hitting the range-   Unfortunately, it usually takes me 3-4 holes to find out what I'm doing that day (I don't try to correct it either, I'll just adjust my alignment slightly and keep swinging the same with the same swing thought)...    Honestly, I don't practice or warm up like I should, but I'm okay with that- I just go have fun now days and I'm not as concerned with score - I play to hit good shots (and fun stupid ones sometimes, that I have not business trying lol)...

Just to kind of chime in with ya here, I do the same thing but with my 5i. I arrive about 45 minutes before my designated tee time. I warm up with the Driver, 5i, 8i, and PW. Start with stretching and the PW with about 5 balls (my short iron game is my best asset), next to the 8 iron (my favorite club) with about 8 balls targeted at the 150 flag (I always seem to be 150-160 out), then the 5 iron with about 10 balls. The 5 iron gives me a lot of feedback just like your 4i does. If I'm pushing or rotating too hard on the ball, it tells me well (coming out nice but left 30 yds off target or a big hook). Once I nail the 5i down, I move on to the driver. My tee box game is the worst part for me, so I take about 25 balls here. Nice smooth swings. Then I chip for about 10 minutes and putt for the remainder of the time (usually another 10-15 minutes).

[Lihu]

Just to kind of chime in with ya here, I do the same thing but with my 5i. I arrive about 45 minutes before my designated tee time. I warm up with the Driver, 5i, 8i, and PW. Start with stretching and the PW with about 5 balls (my short iron game is my best asset), next to the 8 iron (my favorite club) with about 8 balls targeted at the 150 flag (I always seem to be 150-160 out), then the 5 iron with about 10 balls. The 5 iron gives me a lot of feedback just like your 4i does. If I'm pushing or rotating too hard on the ball, it tells me well (coming out nice but left 30 yds off target or a big hook). Once I nail the 5i down, I move on to the driver. My tee box game is the worst part for me, so I take about 25 balls here. Nice smooth swings. Then I chip for about 10 minutes and putt for the remainder of the time (usually another 10-15 minutes).

How bad is bad?

We had a debate about the importance of the long game on this forum a few months ago, and many of us adopted the stance that the tee shots are more critical than anything else. What are your thoughts?

[dbrock504]

How bad is bad?

We had a debate about the importance of the long game on this forum a few months ago, and many of us adopted the stance that the tee shots are more critical than anything else. What are your thoughts?

BBAADD. Before I got this new driver 2 weeks ago, it is not uncommon for me to take 7 or 8 drops (14-16 additional strokes to the scorecard) off the tee box in 15 tee boxes. I do loose about 2-3 balls off of mishits, shanks, etc. with my long irons and hybrid into the woods and I can't find it or into a hazard, but that happens...

I agree with it. When I started playing golf 4 years ago, I was taught the "traditional" way (drive for show, putt for doe). I got lessons on putting and chipping and focused everything on putting, once I began to be a <40 putter, I moved on to chipping. Once I started putting myself in positions to get up and down more often, I moved to pitching. So on and so forth. Consequently, my overall score is terrible because of this. I couldn't break 100 for 3.5 years because I couldn't get off the tee box accurately enough to not have to take a drop. I bought a good driver (Ping G10) but never could hit it. I put 2 different shafts in it hoping to get different results and all it did was make things worse. My 3 wood is good, so I decided to put the driver in the bag until I could get a new driver. 4 months passed and I was immediately playing in the mid-high 90's now that my driving accuracy increased. The 3 wood still wasn't good as my fairway accuracy was around 45% with it (driver is around 30%). Distance was never an issue.

About 2 weeks ago, I went and got fit for a driver and bought a new (used) Callaway X Hot 9.5* Stiff flex driver. I've played 3 round with it and so far it has looked like:

*First time playing with new club*: 18 holes at The Republic in San Antonio, TX- (never played there before) shot a 96. 62% accuracy 4 GIR 41 putts (bad putting).

Went to range next day hit 100 balls with it.

*Second time playing with it*: 9 holes on an easy course (Quail Creek)- (usually shoot +13- +15 on their front 9). Shot +7. 71% accuracy 3 GIR 17 putts. wasn't worried about putting really. I went to play with the driver.

*Third time playing with it*: Plum Creek in Kyle, TX (pretty tough course)-  My best there is a 98 (avg 101) with 5 GIR with 33 putts. I shot a 92. 57% accuracy 5 GIR 32 putts.

So in seeing that, driver accuracy is essential. I generally hit the green or fringe (not necessarily close to the pin) 150 and in. My GIR would go up if I didn't take so many drops off the tee box. I am playing much, much better golf with this new Callaway AND slowing down. I don't know why, but I always get really quick and try to crush it off the tee box. I don't do that with my irons... As I get used to this driver and continue to swing smooth, I expect to be in the high 80's real soon. You guys are right though. Assuming you have a decent enough short game, long game proves to be more important to your overall score. Sure I am a mid-low 30's putter, but I shoot in the mid 90's typically.

My theory is if I shoot in the mid- high 90's now with that horrendous driving, I can be shooting in the low 80's if I take back every single dropped ball off the tee box (96 total avg in 2014 - 14 avg strokes= 82). Now I obviously don't expect to never loose a ball or be 100% accuracy off the tee box, but if I only loose 2 balls instead of 7 off the tee box, that's an 86!!

[Lihu]

BBAADD. Before I got this new driver 2 weeks ago, it is not uncommon for me to take 7 or 8 drops (14-16 additional strokes to the scorecard) off the tee box in 15 tee boxes. I do loose about 2-3 balls off of mishits, shanks, etc. with my long irons and hybrid into the woods and I can't find it or into a hazard, but that happens...

I agree with it. When I started playing golf 4 years ago, I was taught the "traditional" way (drive for show, putt for doe). I got lessons on putting and chipping and focused everything on putting, once I began to be a <40 putter, I moved on to chipping. Once I started putting myself in positions to get up and down more often, I moved to pitching. So on and so forth. Consequently, my overall score is terrible because of this. I couldn't break 100 for 3.5 years because I couldn't get off the tee box accurately enough to not have to take a drop. I bought a good driver (Ping G10) but never could hit it. I put 2 different shafts in it hoping to get different results and all it did was make things worse. My 3 wood is good, so I decided to put the driver in the bag until I could get a new driver. 4 months passed and I was immediately playing in the mid-high 90's now that my driving accuracy increased. The 3 wood still wasn't good as my fairway accuracy was around 45% with it (driver is around 30%). Distance was never an issue.

About 2 weeks ago, I went and got fit for a driver and bought a new (used) Callaway X Hot 9.5* Stiff flex driver. I've played 3 round with it and so far it has looked like:

*First time playing with new club*: 18 holes at The Republic in San Antonio, TX- (never played there before) shot a 96. 62% accuracy 4 GIR 41 putts (bad putting).

Went to range next day hit 100 balls with it.

*Second time playing with it*: 9 holes on an easy course (Quail Creek)- (usually shoot +13- +15 on their front 9). Shot +7. 71% accuracy 3 GIR 17 putts. wasn't worried about putting really. I went to play with the driver.

*Third time playing with it*: Plum Creek in Kyle, TX (pretty tough course)-  My best there is a 98 (avg 101) with 5 GIR with 33 putts. I shot a 92. 57% accuracy 5 GIR 32 putts.

So in seeing that, driver accuracy is essential. I generally hit the green or fringe (not necessarily close to the pin) 150 and in. My GIR would go up if I didn't take so many drops off the tee box. I am playing much, much better golf with this new Callaway AND slowing down. I don't know why, but I always get really quick and try to crush it off the tee box. I don't do that with my irons... As I get used to this driver and continue to swing smooth, I expect to be in the high 80's real soon. You guys are right though. Assuming you have a decent enough short game, long game proves to be more important to your overall score. Sure I am a mid-low 30's putter, but I shoot in the mid 90's typically.

My theory is if I shoot in the mid- high 90's now with that horrendous driving, I can be shooting in the low 80's if I take back every single dropped ball off the tee box (96 total avg in 2014 - 14 avg strokes= 82). Now I obviously don't expect to never loose a ball or be 100% accuracy off the tee box, but if I only loose 2 balls instead of 7 off the tee box, that's an 86!!

I tend to think you might be able to substantiate your claim to get into the low 80s, or at least I think you could be in the mid 80s given your halfway decent GIR average of around 4 to 5 with that many OB/lateral tee shots. What surprised me is really the fact that you were indicating that your irons are very good, and your driver is so bad. This is the exact opposite of what I expect. For someone that can carry their 8i 150 yards then not be able to hit a driver is a little unbelievable at first glance. Now that you have explained your situation, it makes a lot more sense. Sorry for questioning your credibility earlier.

I am hoping that with focused work that low 80s could be a year away for me, but there is so much to learn and ingrain I feel a little overwhelmed at the moment. My drives are only starting to get decent, and there is so much work to make my irons more solid. Plus, I am planning some equipment changes as my swing mechanics improve to the point of being able to "use" my current setup. The big move will be switching from the MP-52 monsters to something more forgiving like the PIng I25 or G25. This should help me get my GIR up, and better par 3 statistics.

You only need work on your driver, which to me is substantially easier, while I need a good deal more iron work.

[dbrock504]

I tend to think you might be able to substantiate your claim to get into the low 80s, or at least I think you could be in the mid 80s given your halfway decent GIR average of around 4 to 5 with that many OB/lateral tee shots. What surprised me is really the fact that you were indicating that your irons are very good, and your driver is so bad. This is the exact opposite of what I expect. For someone that can carry their 8i 150 yards then not be able to hit a driver is a little unbelievable at first glance. Now that you have explained your situation, it makes a lot more sense. Sorry for questioning your credibility earlier.

I am hoping that with focused work that low 80s could be a year away for me, but there is so much to learn and ingrain I feel a little overwhelmed at the moment. My drives are only starting to get decent, and there is so much work to make my irons more solid. Plus, I am planning some equipment changes as my swing mechanics improve to the point of being able to "use" my current setup. The big move will be switching from the MP-52 monsters to something more forgiving like the PIng I25 or G25. This should help me get my GIR up, and better par 3 statistics.

You only need work on your driver, which to me is substantially easier, while I need a good deal more iron work.

Don't be sorry, bud. You only know what you can see on these threads. Having good irons and that bad driver is pretty funky isn't it? It makes for a frustrating game!

For 3.5 years, I hit Wilson Fat Shaft Deep Red irons and they really sucked, but I got the entire lot (3-PW) at a garage sale for $5!!!! That's a $300 set haha!. After spending 6 months trying different clubs and being fit on 3 different types of machines, I got the Callaway X Hot irons this past December and it made my iron game go from a 5/10 to about an 8/10, if I had to put a numerical value on iron ability for the average golfer. I went from 2 GIR avg in 2013 to a 5 avg so far this year. Point being, equipment really does make a difference. If you find something that truly does match your game, it will benefit you greatly and should take care of most of your issues. For example, because of its offset and better spin production, I am able to hold more greens with the 8, 9, and PW. Because of a longer shaft on the 4 and 5 iron, I am able to get more distance out of it. Moving to something more forgiving would be a great idea. It worked for me!

As for the overwhelmed part, I would suggest to just take the game one aspect at a time. That's what I did to help build good habits. I did nothing but focus on putting and chipping for 2 solid months 3 days a week. After I got pretty decent at it, I moved to 50-100 yd shots at a green on a local course's 9th hole for $3. Once I got that down, I moved to 150-100 and got that down. After I got the mid-short range game down, I spent 4 weeks 3 times a week at the range hitting my 3 hybrid, 4i, 5i and 6i. Now that my short-mid game is decent, I need to start working on the long range (220+ off fairways and off tee box). That's what I'm doing now and it's coming around slowly. I think I am going to break down and go back to that instructor for driver lessons soon. As a college student, it makes it hard paying his rates!

P.S. if you are thinking about going Ping, go with the i20/g20's. They are going to be cheaper and they are essentially the same club, especially the i series. For the G25's all they did was change the look and make the top line thinner. I liked the G25's put hated the price... I got the X Hot's after the X Hot 2's were released ;) I recommend the Mizuno JPX-825's also. Great clubs, but once again, out of my price range.

[Lihu]

Don't be sorry, bud. You only know what you can see on these threads. Having good irons and that bad driver is pretty funky isn't it? It makes for a frustrating game!

For 3.5 years, I hit Wilson Fat Shaft Deep Red irons and they really sucked, but I got the entire lot (3-PW) at a garage sale for $5!!!! That's a $300 set haha!. After spending 6 months trying different clubs and being fit on 3 different types of machines, I got the Callaway X Hot irons this past December and it made my iron game go from a 5/10 to about an 8/10, if I had to put a numerical value on iron ability for the average golfer. I went from 2 GIR avg in 2013 to a 5 avg so far this year. Point being, equipment really does make a difference. If you find something that truly does match your game, it will benefit you greatly and should take care of most of your issues. For example, because of its offset and better spin production, I am able to hold more greens with the 8, 9, and PW. Because of a longer shaft on the 4 and 5 iron, I am able to get more distance out of it. Moving to something more forgiving would be a great idea. It worked for me!

As for the overwhelmed part, I would suggest to just take the game one aspect at a time. That's what I did to help build good habits. I did nothing but focus on putting and chipping for 2 solid months 3 days a week. After I got pretty decent at it, I moved to 50-100 yd shots at a green on a local course's 9th hole for $3. Once I got that down, I moved to 150-100 and got that down. After I got the mid-short range game down, I spent 4 weeks 3 times a week at the range hitting my 3 hybrid, 4i, 5i and 6i. Now that my short-mid game is decent, I need to start working on the long range (220+ off fairways and off tee box). That's what I'm doing now and it's coming around slowly. I think I am going to break down and go back to that instructor for driver lessons soon. As a college student, it makes it hard paying his rates!

P.S. if you are thinking about going Ping, go with the i20/g20's. They are going to be cheaper and they are essentially the same club, especially the i series. For the G25's all they did was change the look and make the top line thinner. I liked the G25's put hated the price... I got the X Hot's after the X Hot 2's were released ;) I recommend the Mizuno JPX-825's also. Great clubs, but once again, out of my price range.

That's another possibility.

[Aflighter]

to get down into the lower 80s or below 85,you have to make more pars.for an 85 you will probably need atleast 6 pars and limit yourself to one or 2 bad holes.when I mean bad I mean a double or triple.for me personally I believe you must be consistent with driver keeping it in play without losing ball or ob shots.you also must be able to two putt.a 3 putt here and thewre is ok if you can make a few 1 putts,basically by chipping close enough to make em.swing easier and slower with driver off tee and make sure you can make 4footers and closer most of the time and score should reflect them two things.make sure your tee ball is in play everytime and atleast hit your second shot near the green within 10 yards or so and 85 or better will be no problem.

[Lihu]

to get down into the lower 80s or below 85,you have to make more pars.for an 85 you will probably need atleast 6 pars and limit yourself to one or 2 bad holes.when I mean bad I mean a double or triple.for me personally I believe you must be consistent with driver keeping it in play without losing ball or ob shots.you also must be able to two putt.a 3 putt here and thewre is ok if you can make a few 1 putts,basically by chipping close enough to make em.swing easier and slower with driver off tee and make sure you can make 4footers and closer most of the time and score should reflect them two things.make sure your tee ball is in play everytime and atleast hit your second shot near the green within 10 yards or so and 85 or better will be no problem.

Welcome to the TST, and thanks for the advice. Looking forward to hearing more good things from you. :-)

[JP golf]

I was down to a 3 hcp a few years back and quit for a few years.. now I'm an 8.  The biggest difference for me is that I now have a bad hole (double) or two, and I don't play strategic golf.  I would recommend to lower your scores work on your iron play, and learn to play to yardages...  Off the tee box, look at what will get you to a certain yardage or maybe to the safe (widest) part of the fairway.  Learn to take hazards out of play and take calculated risk.  Pre shot routine was important to me and it helped my consistency.  Improve your up & down percentage also...

Take 50 swings a night with your 6 iron... you will be surprised how much more consistent that will make you with your irons...