New ball flight law question

[bendport]

Just a quicky on the push fade shot under the new ball flight laws

If I understand correctly, the push fade could be caused by different swing paths into the ball

Clubface in relation to target -  open

Clubface in relation to path   -  open

Path into ball - could be in to out or out to in?

Thanks

[cipher]

Yeah path can be out to in or in to out related to body.  However, with a push fade, the club face is always open to the path and the face is always right of the body lines are aiming.   You could hit a push fade in that way that starts left of your target and works back to it if your body lines aim far enough to the left.

[14ledo81]

Just a quicky on the push fade shot under the new ball flight laws

If I understand correctly, the push fade could be caused by different swing paths into the ball

Clubface in relation to target -  open

Clubface in relation to path   -  open

Path into ball - could be in to out or out to in?

Thanks

Correct.  Of course the face would need to be open to path to fade, but both of the following scenarios would push fade.

(for a righty)

Scenario #1

Face in relation to target - 5 degrees right

Path in relation to target - 3 degrees right  (in to out) - (face 2 degrees open in relation to face)

Scenario #2

Face in relation to target - 5 degrees right

Path in relation to target - 2 degrees left  (out to in) - (face 7 degrees open in relation to face)

While both scenarios would start the ball in a similar direction, the second scenario would produce more curvature due to the greater differential between path and face.

[saevel25]

Yeah path can be out to in or in to out.  However, with a push fade, the club face is always open to the path and the face is always right of the body lines where you are aiming.   You could hit a push fade in that way that starts left of your target and works back to it if your body lines aim far enough to the left.

I'd agree with that. Though I always considered a push and pull relative to the target line, but I think it is better to think of it as the club face relative to the swing path.

[bendport]

Nicely explained, thanks!

[bendport]

so with a pull draw the same could be said

Club face to target - Closed

Club face in relation to path - Closed

Path into ball - out to in or in to out

[14ledo81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cipher

Yeah path can be out to in or in to out.  However, with a push fade, the club face is always open to the path and the face is always right of the body lines where you are aiming.   You could hit a push fade in that way that starts left of your target and works back to it if your body lines aim far enough to the left.

I'd agree with that. Though I always considered a push and pull relative to the target line, but I think it is better to think of it as the club face relative to the swing path.

I used to consider it that way as well, but I think Erik mentioned why it would be more accurate to relate it to your alignments.  If I align 15 degrees left, I could still hit a "push fade" to the target.

[14ledo81]

so with a pull draw the same could be said

Club face to target - Closed

Club face in relation to path - Closed

Path into ball - out to in or in to out

Absolutely.  When the ball starts left (or right), and curves further in the same direction, the only thing we can be certain of is face angle.

If the ball starts right and curves back left (push draw), we know the face was pointing right to start the ball right, and the swing path had to be further right to make the ball draw back.

[cipher]

I'd agree with that. Though I always considered a push and pull relative to the target line, but I think it is better to think of it as the club face relative to the swing path.

Yeah if you limit it to the target line then it limits the number of shots that are possible.   For example you could set up closed and hit a straight shot at the target that could only be a straight shot when in reality it is a straight pull, which is a better description.

[bendport]

Eureka, got it....finally!!

[iacas]

Club face to target - Closed

Club face in relation to path - Closed

Path into ball - out to in or in to out

Personally, I hate describing things like that.

Anything relative to the target or your alignment: use the words "left" or "right". Qualifiers can be used too, like "face aimed right of stance, left of target, and path traveling left of the face." That's a push-fade that finishes toward the target.

Clubface relative to path: use "open" or "closed." That's how most people read those words, so limit them to only those situations.

Otherwise you end up telling people that they hit a draw that finishes at the target with the clubface "open to the target," which sounds stupid.

[bendport]

Eureka, got it....finally!!

Understood, makes sense, thanks!