Hank Haney: "I saw Tiger's drive diminish as early as 2006"

[mvmac]

Hank Haney's take on Tiger's quick comeback , now on hold as he vacations prior to The Open Championship .

Haney says...

"A lot of athletes continue to have a lot of drive. I mean, you can't question Peyton Manning's drive," says Haney. "But I saw Tiger's drive diminish as early as 2006. That's speculation and observation, but you can't deny that he doesn't practice as much. It could be because of his kids. It could be because of injuries. It doesn't matter what the because is. It's reality. The question is what happens now."

Woods hasn't said if he'll play again before the British Open July 17-20. He isn't in the field at the Greenbrier this week, which leaves the John Deere and the Scottish Open the week before Liverpool.

"He's basically practiced one week out of the last six months," says Haney. "Tony Romo had the same surgery in December, and he told me that Tiger would come back much quicker than anybody thought because his core was so strong. But Tiger said last week that his swing wasn't explosive yet because he hadn't been able to do some of his weightlifting program. That means he still has some restrictions."

[iacas]

So… Hank is going to comment every time Tiger does anything, from now until forever.

That's what I learned there.

[Deryck Griffith]

So… Hank is going to comment every time Tiger does anything, from now until forever.

That's what I learned there.

He's got to keep relevant somehow...

[waldo]

Stress fracture of the tibia when he won 08 Open. I would think that took a lot of "drive"

[iacas]

Stress fracture of the tibia when he won 08 Open. I would think that took a lot of "drive"

That's a good point.

Maybe he started to practice less with Hank …

[Mulligan Jeff]

"But I saw Tiger's drive diminish as early as 2006". The death of Earl Woods in May 2006 certainly was a turning point in Tiger's life. You'd think that Hank would have had more of a realization of that fact.

[chasm]

"But I saw Tiger's drive diminish as early as 2006". The death of Earl Woods in May 2006 certainly was a turning point in Tiger's life. You'd think that Hank would have had more of a realization of that fact.

Everyone's father dies.

[jamo]

Really a pity that Tiger is behind Dr. Tony Romo's timetable.

[Zeph]

I would be surprised if Tiger did have the drive today that he had in his prime. Losing his father, the promiscuity event, the injuries, the lack of majors, the children etc.

[iacas]

Everyone's father dies.

Your point?

I'm asking because surely you aren't saying that losing a parent affects everyone the same (because all father-son relationships are the same), nor that everyone's father dies right in the peak of their careers…

[chasm]

[QUOTE name="chasm" url="/t/75609/hank-haney-i-saw-tigers-drive-diminish-as-early-as-2006#post_1015286"] Everyone's father dies.[/QUOTE] Your point? I'm asking because surely you aren't saying that losing a parent affects everyone the same (because all father-son relationships are the same), nor that everyone's father dies right in the peak of their careers…

I'd have thought my point was obvious. Everyone's father dies. My professionalism didn't diminish when my father died, and as it happens, he died at the peak of my career. There are numerous golfers on tour whose parents have died. Nobody makes those deaths an excuse for their failures. As for your implication that Tiger's relationship with his father was somehow more special than that of other fathers and sons, please don't make me laugh. It was so special that he was prepared to use his father's death in an unbelievably classless attempt to excuse his serial infidelities. That's showing respect for the dead, alright. My point, if it needs any further emphasis, is that those who are determined to believe that Tiger is some sort of hero are prepared to clutch at any and every reason to make excuses for him, even though those excuses apply to everyone else, too. Tiger has been a great golfer. He is now in decline. The fact that he has been a great sportsman doesn't make him Mother Theresa, or somehow more entitled to excuses.

[Zeph]

As for your implication that Tiger's relationship with his father was somehow more special than that of other fathers and sons, please don't make me laugh. It was so special that he was prepared to use his father's death in an unbelievably classless attempt to excuse his serial infidelities. That's showing respect for the dead, alright.

Nobody is talking about who has got "the most special relationship" with their father. How the each person reacts to a death is individual. You can't argue that nobody should be affected professionally by losing a close family member, just because you were not.

[mchepp]

My opinion are injuries are the biggest factor. We see the injuries (meaning the arthritis) with Phil affecting him quite a bit as well. Followed distantly by the scandal outing him and his personal life. Not the actual scandal itself but more how being as famous as he was meant he cannot be who he wants to be when not on the course. I think it made him more guarded and maybe made him question if all this work he was doing to be so great was worth it. This is only speculation.

[iacas]

[QUOTE name="chasm" url="/t/75609/hank-haney-i-saw-tigers-drive-diminish-as-early-as-2006#post_1015317"] I'd have thought my point was obvious. Everyone's father dies.[/QUOTE] Which makes the questions I posted in response to your post even more obvious: not everyone has the same relationship, reacts the same way, etc. Yet your post indicates that you think everyone should, which is stupid. [QUOTE name="chasm" url="/t/75609/hank-haney-i-saw-tigers-drive-diminish-as-early-as-2006#post_1015317"] My point, if it needs any further emphasis, is that those who are determined to believe that Tiger is some sort of hero are prepared to clutch at any and every reason to make excuses for him, even though those excuses apply to everyone else, too.[/QUOTE] I'm not clutching at anything, nor do I think he's "some sort of hero." He simply isn't you, me, or anyone else, so to project your own experiences (while NOT being in anything close to a similar situation professionally) is what's laughable here. Furthermore, we don't even know if Tiger's drive did decrease in 2006.

[chasm]

[QUOTE name="chasm" url="/t/75609/hank-haney-i-saw-tigers-drive-diminish-as-early-as-2006#post_1015317"] I'd have thought my point was obvious. Everyone's father dies.[/QUOTE] Which makes the questions I posted in response to your post even more obvious: not everyone has the same relationship, reacts the same way, etc. Yet your post indicates that you think everyone should, which is stupid.

No, my post doesn't imply that. And before you start calling me stupid (I was under the impression that your forum guidelines prohibited personal abuse? Or is there one rule for you and one for the rest of us?) perhaps you might make the effort to understand what I'm saying. Obviously people's relationships with, and reactions to the death of, their parents, differ considerably. We have no real way of knowing how Tiger felt about his Dad, beyond what he has said in public. I am, however, entitled to doubt his sincerity, given the use he made of his supposed devotion when trying to drum up sympathy for himself in the wake of the scandal surrounding his personal life. It is my contention that someone who had what I would regard as true respect and affection for a parent would not demean their memory for purely self-serving ends. And the rest of his behaviour doesn't exactly inspire confidence in his selfless attachment to people he is supposed to love. [quote name="iacas" url="/t/75609/hank-haney-i-saw-tigers-drive-diminish-as-early-as-2006#post_1015346"][QUOTE name="chasm" url="/t/75609/hank-haney-i-saw-tigers-drive-diminish-as-early-as-2006#post_1015317"] My point, if it needs any further emphasis, is that those who are determined to believe that Tiger is some sort of hero are prepared to clutch at any and every reason to make excuses for him, even though those excuses apply to everyone else, too.[/QUOTE] I'm not clutching at anything, nor do I think he's "some sort of hero." He simply isn't you, me, or anyone else, so to project your own experiences (while NOT being in anything close to a similar situation professionally) is what's laughable here. Furthermore, we don't even know if Tiger's drive did decrease in 2006.[/quote] An admirable attempt at setting up a straw man. But I'm not the one doing the projecting, here. Those doing the projecting are the people who are casting around for reasons why their hero might have an excuse for not being as good as he was. In my view, he doesn't really need an excuse. He's an ageing athlete in decline. It happens to them all.

[iacas]

No, my post doesn't imply that.

Yes it does.

And before you start calling me stupid (I was under the impression that your forum guidelines prohibited personal abuse?

Clearly, I did not call you stupid. The rules apply to all, evenly.

Obviously people's relationships with, and reactions to the death of, their parents, differ considerably. We have no real way of knowing how Tiger felt about his Dad, beyond what he has said in public. I am, however, entiled to doubt his sincerity, given the use he made of his supposed devotion when trying to drum up sympathy for himself in the wake of the scandal surrounding his personal life.

None of which you said given two opportunities, including one specifically in response to your initial fly-by comment.

An admirable attempt at setting up a straw man.

Hardly. Tiger's "drive" is the very topic of the thread. Thus far, we have ONE person (who may be motivated by who knows what) saying so.

[chasm]

[QUOTE name="chasm" url="/t/75609/hank-haney-i-saw-tigers-drive-diminish-as-early-as-2006#post_1015354"] No, my post doesn't imply that.[/QUOTE] Yes it does.

No it doesn't. That is merely your inference, not my implication. You're mistaken. [QUOTE] Clearly, I did not call you stupid. The rules apply to all, evenly. [/quote] i'm glad to hear it. I agree there's a distinction between describing a statement as stupid, and accusing its author of stupidity. I suspect that distinction may be lost on quite a number of people, though. [QUOTE] None of which you said given two opportunities, including one specifically in response to your initial fly-by comment.[/quote] Actually, that isn't true. In my intial response to your enquiry "what's your point?" I made it perfectly clear that i doubted the sincerity of Tiger's protestations of affection for his old man because of the use he had made of the death to deflect public distase about his behaviour. [QUOTE] Hardly. Tiger's "drive" is the very topic of the thread. Thus far, we have ONE person (who may be motivated by who knows what) saying so. [/quote] I don't know what this means. Saying what? I wasn't questioning your assertion that we don't know about Tiger's drive, I was responding to your inaccurate assertion that I was projecting.

[Golfingdad]

Whoops ... I read the title and stupidly thought he meant Tigers drivING had diminished. ;)