Setup, Grip, and Making the Swing "Automatic"

[TXHusker]

Please post a video of your kid's swing. I think we'd all love to see it. No need to be close-up on the grip or anything. We don't need to see this expensive, secret grip or anything. Just would love to see his motion.

I would happily grant your request if I thought you were being anything but a pompous jerk. Good day.

[iacas]

I would happily grant your request if I thought you were being anything but a pompous jerk.

Good day.

Feel free to explain how I'm being a pompous jerk. Feel free, also, to answer the questions I asked if you could.

I shared my opinions. You're welcome to the same. Keep them to the topic of golf, eh, as we don't tolerate childish behavior (like namecalling).

[TXHusker]

Who gave you the liberty to assign my profile an avatar?   You're pathetic.

[mvmac]

@TXHusker we don't tolerate name calling on the forum so please stop.

The point remains: You can teach someone the "perfect" grip and set-up and they aren't going to automatically hit it like a pro. Do you agree or disagree @TXHusker ?

[iacas]

Who gave you the liberty to assign my profile an avatar?   You're pathetic.

Read your welcome PM. If you don't like your avatar, change it. Perhaps you could answer the questions I posed or otherwise respond to the other points I made.

[TXHusker]

@TXHusker we don't tolerate name calling on the forum so please stop.

The point remains: You can teach someone the "perfect" grip and set-up and they aren't going to automatically hit it like a pro. Do you agree or disagree @TXHusker?

Tell your friend to quit mocking contributors on the forum.

Never did I claim that anyone with a perfect grip - if there ever was such a thing, was going to hit it like a pro.  I feel like I have a great grip and I can't break an egg.

[iacas]

Tell your friend to quit mocking contributors on the forum.

I didn't mock you. I'm sorry you felt mocked. Truly. The fact remains that I posed some questions and thoughts to you, and your only response thus far has been to call me names. You also definitely implied that the set up and grip were of super duper importance. Do you disagree with that? How do you reconcile that players on the PGA Tour all have different grips and set ups? How about Ben Hogan's three right hands comment? You said this thread would be fun. When does the fun begin? Are we not allowed to discuss your posts or to provide our own thoughts?

[TXHusker]

I don't agree that your right hand being lower requires open shoulders. Your shoulders could simply tilt, with your right shoulder simply moving downward.

Y es, and slightly forward, because that hand is reaching down further.

There's no anatomical reason that I can see why your shoulders have to be open just because your right hand is a little lower on the grip.

Unless you are purposely keeping your shoulder square to the other, it naturally opens very slightly because it is reaching further down the shaft.  Try it in your mirror.

I could take a guy off the street who has never played golf and teach him a ​perfect setup and grip. The guy may still whiff 1/3 of his swings and his swing plane will be anything but "automatic."   No beginner's swing is going to be automatic.  But I believe that my son's swing, if the club is gripped correctly, with the correct set-up, and the correct start, is as close to automatic as it can be.  That's not saying it's PGA or perfect.  But it does repeat.

No beginner's swing is going to be automatic.  But I believe that my son's swing, if the club is gripped correctly, with the correct set-up, and the correct start, is as close to automatic as it can be.  That's not saying it's PGA or perfect.  But it does repeat.

There's also no one "setup" position on the PGA Tour, for example.  There are multiple set-ups, but any accomplished golfer will have a sound set-up, commensurate with his physique.

There are multiple set-ups, but any accomplished golfer will have a sound set-up, commensurate with his physique.

Hogan said that he wished he had three right hands. Kind of flies in the face of this, no?

T his was a comment more about ball impact, Hogan contradicted himself on this, as he also said he desired to have the left wrist pronated through impact.  We go with the latter.

I find that there's very little "natural" in the golf swing. I think Hogan once said if you do the OPPOSITE of what feels natural, you'll have a good golf swing.

I believe that a golf swing, when trained correctly and with the correct set-up and grip, can be as natural as casting a fly line 50 feet across the water...when it is done well, when a player is on fire, it certainly comes very naturally.

Carl and I disagree. :)

Uhm, okay. Pretty sure Rory McIlroy could walk up to the ball doing any pre-shot routine and hit it better than your son (or me, or 99.9% of anyone who plays golf of course). Do you disagree?

The pre-shot routine doesn't make a good player, but no good player will be without a good pre-shot routine.

Please post a video of your kid's swing. I think we'd all love to see it.

The best swings have roughly five of them in common, I would say…

I'll try to video his swing this weekend and post a clip.

Seems like a waste of about $448 to me.

Again, really glad you're happy, but… I can't imagine.

So far, so good.

[mvmac]

Never did I claim that anyone with a perfect grip - if there ever was such a thing, was going to hit it like a pro.  I feel like I have a great grip and I can't break an egg.

Here's what you said:

He claims that if you do not have a fundamentally sound grip  with "fundamentally sound" being a very tight window - you have no chance to score well.  He once told my son "that's a fine grip....as long as you never want to break 80.  That's not a 70s grip you currently have...it's an 80s grip."

So according to Carl, in order to score well a player has to have this exact grip. Great players don't use the same exact grip. There is no "70's" grip.

Who's grip is fundamentally sound, Fred Couples (strong left hand, also aims he body well left), Tiger (neutral grip) or Ben Hogan (weak grip)? All score well but very different hand positions, so the tolerances can't be that tight.

I agree the grip can be important, reason I started a thread on it. It's importance depends on the player's priority, I don't change or work on someone's grip in every lesson. There are plenty of swing mechanic pieces that are more important that attaining a "perfect" grip.

I also don't understand why you feel like you need to spend so much time on something that is pretty simple.

[TXHusker]

Here's what you said:

So according to Carl, in order to score well a player has to have this exact grip. Great players don't use the same exact grip. There is no "70's" grip.

Who's grip is fundamentally sound, Fred Couples (strong left hand, also aims he body well left), Tiger (neutral grip) or Ben Hogan (weak grip)? All score well but very different hand positions, so the tolerances can't be that tight.

I agree the grip can be important, reason I started a thread on it. It's importance depends on the player's priority, I don't change or work on someone's grip in every lesson. There are plenty of swing mechanic pieces that are more important that attaining a "perfect" grip.

I also don't understand why you feel like you need to spend so much time on something that is pretty simple.

A fundamentally sound grip doesn't mean that it can't be weak, strong, or neutral.  No does it mean that it can't be interlocking, overlap, or even 10-finger.

Mr. Lohren's perspective is that the grip is one of the primary drivers of the swing motion.  At least in our case, so far, so good.

[TXHusker]

[TXHusker]

"Start with the left shoulder" - Lee Trevino

[TXHusker]

How important is the grip, the set-up, and the start of the swing?

[Phil McGleno]

So this is the Carl Lohren Spam Thread now? If youre gonna spam us just put all the videos in one post man.-This is a bad way to bump your post count. Just checking.-And I can move my right hand lower by tilting my spine right a little. $1k on the grip you say?-My momma used to have a saying about that. :whistle: :doh:

[mvmac]

A fundamentally sound grip doesn't mean that it can't be weak, strong, or neutral.  No does it mean that it can't be interlocking, overlap, or even 10-finger.

Mr. Lohren's perspective is that the grip is one of the primary drivers of the swing motion.  At least in our case, so far, so good.

Ok, this is different than what you said in your other posts. Your other posts placed much more importance and tighter tolerances on the grip.

With the right hand lower, open shoulders, I don't really know what to say. Just have to use your own common sense and do it for yourself. There are plenty of good players that set-up with the shoulders parallel left and don't have any issues making a full turn. The left shoulder going down gives the shoulder plenty of room.

[TXHusker]

Ok, this is different than what you said in your other posts. Your other posts placed much more importance and tighter tolerances on the grip.

With the right hand lower, open shoulders, I don't really know what to say. Just have to use your own common sense and do it for yourself. There are plenty of good players that set-up with the shoulders parallel left and don't have any issues making a full turn. The left shoulder going down gives the shoulder plenty of room.

Good thing it's a free country and we can each do it our own way, huh?

[TXHusker]

So this is the Carl Lohren Spam Thread now?

If youre gonna spam us just put all the videos in one post man.-This is a bad way to bump your post count.

Just checking.-And I can move my right hand lower by tilting my spine right a little.

$1k on the grip you say?-My momma used to have a saying about that.

No spamming, just sharing information that might or might not be useful.

There are actually only two clips of Carl; the other is of Lee Trevino.

As for your right hand move, that's great.

As for the $1K, it was a good investment in our case.

[mvmac]

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