Cutting down the shafts on my long irons??? any thoughts??

[David L Yskes]

http://golfweek.com/news/2013/feb/21/notebook-dechambeau-key-gregorys-smu-rebuild/

So after reading this article and how interesting this kids idea for his irons was it really got me thinking into doing the same thing......

That i would cut down the length of my long irons ( 6 thru 3 )so they are no longer than my 7 iron...

I do hit my 7 thru PW the best....  And have always had a bit of a issue hitting the longer irons, and figure if they are the same length as my 7 iron, i should be able to hit them a lot better..  I might lose a bit on distance but will probably be more accurate..

Just looking for some feed back if anyone else has tried this

[Lihu]

Did you already try it by choking up on the grip?

[vangator]

I have the Pinhawk Single Length irons. All my irons are the length of a 7 iron. But these club heads are designed for this with the same head weight and lie angle. In the past I have cut down the length of my long irons and it never really worked. These are an interesting concept along your line of thinking. Could have come up with a better name. :-) http://simpletonsgolf.com/

[Lihu]

I have the Pinhawk Single Length irons. All my irons are the length of a 7 iron. But these club heads are designed for this with the same head weight and lie angle. In the past I have cut down the length of my long irons and it never really worked. These are an interesting concept along your line of thinking. Could have come up with a better name. :-) http://simpletonsgolf.com/

Doesn't this affect the distance gaps? Two lengths seems a little restricting to me?

[WUTiger]

First of all, some information on factors affecting distance gaps between irons in a matched set.

General rule for planning for average golfer: a difference in 4 degrees more loft and a 1/2" increase in shaft length will produce 10-to-12 yards more distance than the next shorter club. This means the 4° loft and 1/2" shaft length each account for about 5-6 yards in yardage distance.

(Note: longer irons tend to bite less, so going from 4° to 3° loft difference may be made up from rollout.)

If you trim 3i through 6i down to 7i length, you would cut the distance increment in these clubs down to about 5 yards - rather than 10 yards - between clubs. Also note the decrease in swingweight (SW) as you trim off shaft length.

XHot Pro irons at standard length					XHot Pro irons after shaft trimming
No.	Loft	Length	SW	Yards	No.	Loft	Length	SW	Yards
3i	19°	39”	D2	190	3i	19°	37” (-2")	C0	170
4i	21.5°	38.5”	D2	180	4i	21.5°	37” (-1.5	C3	165
5i	24°	38”	D2	170	5i	24°	37” (-1")	C6	160
6i	27°	37.5”	D2	160	6i	27°	37” (-.5")	C9	155
7i	31°	37”	D2	150	7i	31°	37”	D2	150
8i	35.5°	36.5	D2	140	8i	35.5°	36.5”	D2	140

If you want to do this and keep the 10-yard increments, what you might do is carry the trimmed 5i and 3i, and fill in with hybrids.

Note: After this trim job, your iron set will have about zero trade-in value.

------------------------------------------

Another thing to consider: Do a gap analysis on your longer numbered irons. See where the distance in your irons starts to bunch up.

Bunch Up = the point in your set in which sequential irons start to fly the same distance, or even shorter distance:

If 6i flies 160 / 5i flies 170 / 4i flies 170 / 3i flies 165... your bunch up point is at the 4i. Fitters would recommend you keep down through 5i, and replace the 4i and 3i with hybrids, or high-lofted FWs.

[trickyputt]

Yeah WUtiger is on it, and the only add I have is that all that stuff still has to deal with where you like your hands to hang. To bring all those clubhead and shaft relations to your swing, you have to know how high off the ground you like the end of the club or where your tendency puts it. Mine is 30.25" so the trig to figure shaft length gets real simple from there. But they arent on simple 1/2" increments because of my measurement affecting the shaft length at any given lie angle.

[rdsandy]

WUTiger said, " This means the 4° loft and 1/2" shaft length each account for about 5-6 yards in yardage distance."

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that the loft differential and the length differential contribute equally to the distance differential.

More like loft 98% length 2%. That is assuming the longer length club places the sweet spot on the ball as effectively as the shorter club, which it probably doesn't.

[saevel25]

WUTiger said, "[COLOR=181818]This means the 4° loft and 1/2" shaft length each account for about 5-6 yards in yardage distance."[/COLOR] [COLOR=181818]Not sure how you came to the conclusion that the loft differential and the length differential contribute equally to the distance differential.[/COLOR] More like loft 98% length 2%. That is assuming the longer length club places the sweet spot on the ball as effectively as the shorter club, which it probably doesn't.

Don't forget each club is usually 7-10 grams lighter as well. It's 70% loft, 30% length and weight

[rdsandy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

WUTiger said, "This means the 4° loft and 1/2" shaft length each account for about 5-6 yards in yardage distance."

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that the loft differential and the length differential contribute equally to the distance differential.

More like loft 98% length 2%. That is assuming the longer length club places the sweet spot on the ball as effectively as the shorter club, which it probably doesn't.

Don't forget each club is usually 7-10 grams lighter as well.

It's 70% loft, 30% length and weight

True, but if I were going to go through with this exercise (cutting the shafts down) I would want to add weight (7-10 grams) to the cut irons head to bring the SW back to match to the uncut clubs. Then the loft would be the overwhelming factor for the distance gaps.

[saevel25]

True, but if I were going to go through with this exercise (cutting the shafts down) I would want to add weight (7-10 grams) to the cut irons head to bring the SW back to match to the uncut clubs. Then the loft would be the overwhelming factor for the distance gaps.

Depends on how you weight the club. You can have a heavier club with a counterbalance that makes it easier to swing. Still, you are not going to get the same gaping just by adjusting swing weight. Only 7-8 yards is accounted for by launch angle difference, two degrees between clubs. Note, even though their is 4 degrees of loft between most clubs, there is only 2 degrees for launch angle. Probably has to do with the golf shaft being longer. This is what Trackman shows in the averages for PGA tour professionals. This means it's 4 yards per degree of launch angle. So if you want the same gaps you need to change the dynamic loft. You probably need to bend all the clubs 1-2 degrees for ever half inch taken off.

[WUTiger]

Originally Posted by rdsandy

WUTiger said, " This means the 4° loft and 1/2" shaft length each account for about 5-6 yards in yardage distance."

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that the loft differential and the length differential contribute equally to the distance differential.

More like loft 98% length 2%. ...

The differential "rule" comes from research at GolfWorks. Here is a quote from club designer and GolfWorks founder Ralph Maltby on loft, shaft length and yardage.

... Also, you now know, based on my comments above, that half the difference in yardage hit comes from the ½” difference in club length and the other half of the distance hit comes from the 3 to 4 degree loft difference. This is why I always want every golfer to chart their yardages for a full average shot and write it down. Do not round up or down to the nearest 10 yard increment as most golfers who do this do. Put down the real yardages to the nearest yard. ...

For full article, see: http://ralphmaltby.com/forum/article/38?page=8#number109

rd , I certainly agree with you, however, on your comment on sweet spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

... That is assuming the longer length club places the sweet spot on the ball as effectively as the shorter club, which it probably doesn't

Longer clubs are more challenging to hit squarely, especially for the average golfer. That's one of the reasons for gap analysis of irons (mentioned earlier), to determine where irons should stop and hybrids/high-lofted FWs should begin.

Another club designer, Tom Wishon, has a suggestion for average golfers and their longer irons :  go with 3/8" increments in shaft length - not 1/2" -  for better contact.

For full Wishon post on iron fitting, see: http://wishongolf.com/iron-fitting-iron-out-the-details/

[rdsandy]

Here is where I saw the info about loft being the prevailing determinant of distance in iron gaps.

David Lake, 1irongolf the FAQ section:

"We are led to believe that longer golf clubs produce greater swing speeds on a linear scale and thus more distance. This is the explanation given for the 1/2 inch increase in club length between the individual irons and woods within a conventional set of golf clubs. In actuality, the only static factor that results in distance changes between clubs is the difference in the loft angle of the club-head. Our testing has shown conclusively that there is absolutely no measurable difference in swing speed due to the standard 1/2 inch incremental shaft length increases between clubs. The only affect of the standard length increases between clubs is to make each successively longer club harder to hit.

The armchair physicist will point to the radial arm length in a golf swing as being the prime determinant of swing speed stating that the longer the radial arm the greater the swing speed and resultant distance. A common misconception is that club length alone is used to define this radial arm length. Regardless of how many hinging points and resultant secondary arcs/planes are involved the true center of a golf swing is a point somewhere between your shoulders (this center point moves laterally between the shoulders during the swing). Hence, you must include your arm length into the radial arm length equation for any meaningful analysis. Therefore, assuming a 37 inch iron length and an arm length of 24 inches, the actual radial arm length in your golf swing is 61 inches. This means that a 1/2 inch change in club length results in a radial arm length change of only 1/122nd or 0.008197. A 1 inch change in club length results in a radial arm length change of only 1/61 or 0.01639. As you can see, these fractional increases in radial arm length will not produce any measurable change in swing speed or distance whatsoever.

Testing at the 1 Iron Golf Research and Testing Labs has shown that the highest level of power generated by a golfer is with the iron that they are most comfortable with (their favorite iron). Even though this favorite iron may be 2 inches shorter than their #3 or #4 iron the golfer is able to generate more power because the shorter club length properly fits them and allows for their optimal swing posture and swing plane that maximizes both skeletal and muscular functions. This favorite iron is the only one in the bag that comes close to fitting properly and is the one that their body naturally gravitates to in order to produce its highest level of power and control.

It should be emphasized that the ideal swing posture and swing plane noted above also produces the highest level of control in a golf swing. This results in a much higher percentage of solid center-face hits which translates into additional distance. Hitting the ball just 1/4 inch from center-face can result in a 10 to 15 yard decrease in distance plus an off-line shot".

[iacas]

"Our testing has shown conclusively that there is absolutely no measurable difference in swing speed due to the standard 1/2 inch incremental shaft length increases between clubs."

He's wrong. This is one of those things to which you can apply common sense. Go to some extremes: how fast is the bottom of your grip moving at impact and how fast is the clubhead moving?

The clubhead is moving quite a bit more. The only difference - the length of the "shaft" in that situation. Same swing.

[rdsandy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

"Our testing has shown conclusively that there is absolutely no measurable difference in swing speed due to the standard 1/2 inch incremental shaft length increases between clubs."

He's wrong. This is one of those things to which you can apply common sense. Go to some extremes: how fast is the bottom of your grip moving at impact and how fast is the clubhead moving?

The clubhead is moving quite a bit more. The only difference - the length of the "shaft" in that situation. Same swing.

Do you think he's lying or is his testing flawed?

[iacas]

Do you think he's lying or is his testing flawed?

I think he's motivated to sell his single-length clubs. I don't even know what testing he did, because I you can see it every day by measuring clubhead speed. Beyond that, it's basic physics.

[1badbadger]

I think another issue that you'd run into is the bounce. If the long irons are shortened to a 7 iron length, they will be swung more upright...like a 7 iron. Even if the lie angles are adjusted, they won't have enough bounce to go through the turf efficiently.  A 7 iron could have 3-5* more bounce than a 3 iron, so the long irons will have a tendency to dig if cut down.

[trickyputt]

I think another issue that you'd run into is the bounce. If the long irons are shortened to a 7 iron length, they will be swung more upright...like a 7 iron. Even if the lie angles are adjusted, they won't have enough bounce to go through the turf efficiently.  A 7 iron could have 3-5* more bounce than a 3 iron, so the long irons will have a tendency to dig if cut down.

Cast heads certainly restrict you to an angle. If I have a shaft that is about a "standard" 5 iron or 38" shaft I can have three choices of head without effecting bounce. What I mean is my shaft is fit to me at 37.92 inches and will set up in my hands at 32.5 inch off the ground with either a 5i head at 59 degrees lie, a 6 iron head at 59 degrees lie or a 7 iron head at 59 degrees lie. I dont care to reach for the ball naturally and tend to set up steep if I dont watch out, so the longer 7 iron is actually the least accurate design for me. It doesnt fit my swing as well for the vertical part of my swing because the shaft length of a long 7 produces a more "around" swing, introducing more left and right in any given shot. My current set of irons has the long 7i. I built them long because I knew that dialing them in would mean shortening them, easy as cutting the 7 down to 37.16" and bending the lie to 61. My wedges would all be 35.87" at 65 degrees lie in that scenario, where currently only my Lob is set that way now. I play forged so no big deal to bend them. I have a new set of TM irons on my wish list. They are cast. Because I cant bend them much, I intend to work with the angles they give me by cutting a + length shaft to arrive at my hand height of 32.5" at set up.

[Lastpick]

I get to chime in.  Buy a five iron and put a seven iron shaft in it.  Then test the five iron for how much improvement you get.  This may be cheaper than cutting off existing club shafts.  I don't think that you have a solid plan by altering your iron lengths, but hey, let us know.

You could also just buy a seven iron shaft and grip and install it in your existing five iron.