Who putts like Bobby Locke?

[trickyputt]

By the title I mean is there a player who draws or hooks his putts? I know I have been flamed for this interest, and told its not possible really, but the guy was really good and taught clinics at tourneys he was in where he would say things like "never cut a putt". I would like to see somebody who swings like he did, but in high definition.

[joekelly]

Saw a video today with GPlayer discussing putting and he mentioned BLocke as the greatest putter ever, natch since both from SA.  Now Player has taken up a 'normal, current' style of putting but years ago, when he was a great competitor he had a jerky motion which had no follow through, just a poke at the ball.  Effective enough and  he said on the video  that he used that method  on the slow, very slow, greens of 40 yrs ago.  Now with much better greens Player's stroke looks pretty ordinary.

Could be Locke's method was also more effective on slow, bumpy greens but today he might think twice.   Snedeker uses a short choppy motion too. Good/bad?

[Shorty]

Why on earth would you putt like Bobby Locke with today's putters?

[boogielicious]

By the title I mean is there a player who draws or hooks his putts? I know I have been flamed for this interest, and told its not possible really, but the guy was really good and taught clinics at tourneys he was in where he would say things like "never cut a putt". I would like to see somebody who swings like he did, but in high definition.

I have a friend who definitely cuts across the ball when he putts.  He always has.  It doesn't really put too much side spin on the ball, but the stroke is noticeable.

[jsgolfer]

I have a friend who definitely cuts across the ball when he putts.  He always has.  It doesn't really put too much side spin on the ball, but the stroke is noticeable.

I don't remember watching Bobby Locke putt, but didn't Billy Mayfair hit left to right side spin on every putt?  I used to have a short stabby stroke (ala Snedeker) trying to change it this year to a more normal stroke, so I don't accelerate through the ball as Iacas has mentioned many times before.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/74295/putting-do-not-accelerate-through-the-ball

[trickyputt]

Why on earth would you putt like Bobby Locke with today's putters?

Thank you for asking the question of why I am asking the question because by asking the question you must understand I seek an answer to the question, unless you feel of course that I should not ask the question. Grumpy Rabbit. And I note the responses are about cuts, which among other things puts the loft up, getting the ball up on to the older green's top which was a strategy of the day. Here is some rabbit fOod. When reading a little about Locke I have an intial impression he had a modern putt, but with a closed stance.

[iacas]

Thank you for asking the question of why I am asking the question because by asking the question you must understand I seek an answer to the question, unless you feel of course that I should not ask the question.

There's nothing wrong with asking "why are you asking"?

And I note the responses are about cuts, which among other things puts the loft up, getting the ball up on to the older green's top which was a strategy of the day.

Why would a cut add loft? Putters have so little you can easily take loft off a putter. You can deliver -5° of loft, or 8° of loft, quite easily, regardless of your path.

Here is some rabbit fOod. When reading a little about Locke I have an intial impression he had a modern putt, but with a closed stance.

Bobby Locke was not that much better than a lot of other people. There are probably a thousand people who are better putters than he is today.

No, I don't putt like Bobby Locke. If your path is not generally toward the target, it's tougher to hit the sweet spot and to maintain proper face alignments to start putts online. So, two of the three "keys" to putting are in danger.

[Shorty]

. When reading a little about Locke I have an intial impression he had a modern putt, but with a closed stance.

This is the style of  putter he used. How much do you think it weighed?

How many players today putt like Gary Player? Same question, same answer.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="trickyputt" url="/t/81090/who-putts-like-bobby-locke#post_1122040"] . When reading a little about Locke I have an intial impression he had a modern putt, but with a closed stance.[/QUOTE] This is the style of  putter he used. How much do you think it weighed? How many players today putt like Gary Player? Same question, same answer. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/116820/] [/URL]

Phil was hitting the modern version of that rusty old blade as I recall.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="trickyputt" url="/t/81090/who-putts-like-bobby-locke#post_1122040"] Thank you for asking the question of why I am asking the question because by asking the question you must understand I seek an answer to the question, unless you feel of course that I should not ask the question.[/QUOTE] There's nothing wrong with asking "why are you asking"? [QUOTE name="trickyputt" url="/t/81090/who-putts-like-bobby-locke#post_1122040"] And I note the responses are about cuts, which among other things puts the loft up, getting the ball up on to the older green's top which was a strategy of the day.[/QUOTE] Why would a cut add loft? Putters have so little you can easily take loft off a putter. You can deliver -5° of loft, or 8° of loft, quite easily, regardless of your path. [QUOTE name="trickyputt" url="/t/81090/who-putts-like-bobby-locke#post_1122040"] Here is some rabbit fOod. When reading a little about Locke I have an intial impression he had a modern putt, but with a closed stance.[/QUOTE] Bobby Locke was not that much better than a lot of other people. There are probably a thousand people who are better putters than he is today. No, I don't putt like Bobby Locke. If your path is not generally toward the target, it's tougher to hit the sweet spot and to maintain proper face alignments to start putts online. So, two of the three "keys" to putting are in danger.

I have heard and read that the older greens were rougher, and that loft was higher on older putters as a result to get the ball up and rolling. I guess he was saying to his students that you should not come through an out to in putter head path with an open face. Laid open, it would add some kind of dynamic loft, but then it would skid the ball also with that small backspin. Speed, read and bead are the 3 keys you have written about. I am afraid the read part is still challenging to me except on nice greens, where I seem to make 2 or more birdies per game. Bobby Locke was reportedly gifted in this area. The speed is what I find most interesting in what I read about his putting. An article I read was effusive about his putting making up for Hogan's distance, so much so it gave Hogan the yips. I suppose anyone who could figure his speed that well, could figure the bead he was aimed at also. I am gonna disagree with you on one small point though. That man won a lot of pretty big tournaments. Thousands of people cant even come close to that I suspect. I found some descriptions of his putting motion but they were not detailed. I think its the motion that is used with toe weighted putters when it is inside then down the line. He is the guy that said "you drive for show and putt for dough". I was interested to recently read that he had that backwards.

[Shorty]

Phil was hitting the modern version of that rusty old blade as I recall.

No he wasn't. It was a version of the Wilson 8802.

A heel shafted blade putter that is 30mm along the bottom does not compare to Locke's putter.

[trickyputt]

I read his putter was longer than those of the day. what does that mean? 38"?

[MrFlipper]

No he wasn't. It was a version of the Wilson 8802.

A heel shafted blade putter that is 30mm along the bottom does not compare to Locke's putter.

My dad's putter (from the 30's) was like that, I remember trying it and if it had a sweet spot I'll never know, the face twisted and was really hard to putt. Super light with a pencil grip. I remember the shafts were painted brown to look like wood.

OTOH, the old chrome 8802's (not these ugly copies) were so cool. Had a buddy long ago who putted with one that he got from his father in law. He could really play. He got divorced and the F-I-L took the putter back. He was never the same. Guess there's a lesson in there somewhere.

[natureboy]

Thank you for asking the question of why I am asking the question because by asking the question you must understand I seek an answer to the question, unless you feel of course that I should not ask the question.

Grumpy Rabbit.

And I note the responses are about cuts, which among other things puts the loft up, getting the ball up on to the older green's top which was a strategy of the day.

Here is some rabbit fOod. When reading a little about Locke I have an intial impression he had a modern putt, but with a closed stance.

I was doing it for a while, with okay results for my amount of putting and green reading experience. I've shifted to Paul Runyan's style and will see if that is an improvement for me this summer. From the available writing, Locke may have had two different putting styles - one in his heyday and one in later years. The first does sound partly like a modern stoke with emphasis on building up enough 'potential energy' in the backswing to make a smooth pendulum stroke. There was a bit of 'nailing a tack' thought or feel in it too, though. This may have been needed for the slower greens. His elbows looked more active than modern players. There is writing that has him 'hooding' the putter on the back stroke (keeping it perpendicular to the target line), but there are pictures from his book showing the face pretty square to the arc & open to the target line. He may have tried to 'hood' in his prime, but not unnaturally so if the stroke had to get long.

In later years, Locke may have used a different technique that put his hands near to almost anchored on his lead thigh for stability. This was emulating Walter Hagen's technique, but with a closed stance. Or he may have used the arm pendulum for longer putts and the Hagen technique for shorter putts. I think The Hawk would have spotted that, though. Hogan's intense scrutiny is to me a definite validation of his ability as a top putter of that era. If Paul Runyan could have hit as far as Locke and been as competitive, though, Hogan may have paid similar attention to his technique.

I have heard and read that the older greens were rougher, and that loft was higher on older putters as a result to get the ball up and rolling. I guess he was saying to his students that you should not come through an out to in putter head path with an open face. Laid open, it would add some kind of dynamic loft, but then it would skid the ball also with that small backspin.

Speed, read and bead are the 3 keys you have written about. I am afraid the read part is still challenging to me except on nice greens, where I seem to make 2 or more birdies per game. Bobby Locke was reportedly gifted in this area. The speed is what I find most interesting in what I read about his putting. An article I read was effusive about his putting making up for Hogan's distance, so much so it gave Hogan the yips. I suppose anyone who could figure his speed that well, could figure the bead he was aimed at also. I am gonna disagree with you on one small point though. That man won a lot of pretty big tournaments. Thousands of people cant even come close to that I suspect. I found some descriptions of his putting motion but they were not detailed. I think its the motion that is used with toe weighted putters when it is inside then down the line. He is the guy that said "you drive for show and putt for dough". I was interested to recently read that he had that backwards.

When Hogan was around his prime, and had found his winning form Locke's ability to lag (and occasionally make) long putts got into Hogan's head a bit (just read his books). He tried to figure out if there was some trick to Locke's style, but concluded that Locke had an "uncanny" ability to read greens...visualizing the right line and feeling the right speed. Locke's putts didn't hook. He made contact with the face square to his line. You really can't slice or hook a putt more than a tiny fraction because it mostly runs on the ground. Gary Player's descriptions are wrong. Just like those who say Trevino played a cut because his stance was open. Curve due to tilted spin axis happens in the air. If you cut across the line out to in, though, I think you can have a bias to hit low on the face. If so this might cause vertical gear effect backspin along with putting contact off the sweet spot. Those two will affect distance control a lot.

Locke's ability with the putter and around the green was probably like a Matt Kuchar. Solid (long enough & very consistent) but not stellar long game that got him regularly close enough to the pin to apply his true advantage. Hogan knew the advantage of the long game. That's why he was unnerved by Locke's 'extreme outlier' ability as a putter to beat him.

This is the style of  putter he used. How much do you think it weighed?

How many players today putt like Gary Player? Same question, same answer.

Same style, but Locke built his personal club up with a lot of lead to make the putter heavier and move the sweet spot further out on the blade.

[trickyputt]

@natureboy I will save some space and not quote your post. I find it interesting you would mention Matt Kuchar, 128 tourneys and 50 top tens, with 5 wins, and slightly more than a 40% one putt average. Evidently he leads the PGA in that stat. I think I will make it a point to watch him more this year. Thanks.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

No he wasn't. It was a version of the Wilson 8802.

A heel shafted blade putter that is 30mm along the bottom does not compare to Locke's putter.

My dad's putter (from the 30's) was like that, I remember trying it and if it had a sweet spot I'll never know, the face twisted and was really hard to putt. Super light with a pencil grip. I remember the shafts were painted brown to look like wood.

OTOH, the old chrome 8802's (not these ugly copies) were so cool. Had a buddy long ago who putted with one that he got from his father in law. He could really play. He got divorced and the F-I-L took the putter back. He was never the same. Guess there's a lesson in there somewhere.

I still have the head of the putter my father in law used in the '30.  I had it fixed up and re-chromed and gave it to my wife for a gift.  It has about 9-10 degrees of loft.  I agree the 8802 is a classic looking putter.

[dfreuter415]

Years ago, I tried to emulate Bobby Locke, one of my favorite golfers, unsuccessfully. However, it is still fun to see how different his putting stroke was, compared to players of today (14 second video)...

This next item is a little off topic, but still is about BL's putting:

Another reason Bobby Locke is remembered is his victory at the 1957 British Open, despite not replacing his ball on the 72nd green...

"At the 1957 British Open at St Andrews Bobby Locke, then aged 39, marked his ball one putter-head off the line of his playing partner Bruce Crampton’s putt at the 72nd hole. When he came to putt, he forgot to replace his ball marker in its original spot and putted from the wrong place. The error was only picked up on newsreel film and reported to the Royal and Ancient officials after the trophy had been presented. As Bobby Locke had a three shot lead over Peter Thomson, the Championship committee after an eight-day delay concluded that he had gained no advantage. Citing the equity and spirit of the game, the Committee decided that he should not be disqualified."

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2009/10/ball-marker-penalties.html

[trickyputt]

I once briefly had a putter called a symple putter that was designed to use that video stroke. I had no idea of the background of the idea of it, but it was very flat and based closely off the left thigh from setup. As to the possibile penalty BL ducked, I was under the impression Tiger was one of early players to have first been pursued on ball movement by a camera. Its nothing new.