Caitlyn Jenner Gets Arthur Ashe Courage Award, Noah Galloway Is Runner Up?

[Jeremie Boop]

Umm... what?

[billchao]

Umm... what?

I had to look this all up, since I live under a rock. Now that I know what the Arthur Ashe Courage Award is and who Noah Galloway is, I have to ask:

What's the big deal?

[Jeremie Boop]

I had to look this all up, since I live under a rock. Now that I know what the Arthur Ashe Courage Award is and who Noah Galloway is, I have to ask:

What's the big deal?

Just find it strange that Noah was beat out by Jenner is all.

[billchao]

Just find it strange that Noah was beat out by Jenner is all.

I figured. I'd ask why, but I don't really care much for political discussions.

[Jeremie Boop]

I figured. I'd ask why, but I don't really care much for political discussions.

It's not a political for me, it's a matter of someone who hasn't been an active athlete for decades beating out a current athlete who's overcome serious obstacles. I should have mentioned that in my previous post. If anything, I think the decision to give it to Jenner was political. Eh well, I can appreciate you bowing out though.

[billchao]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

It's not a political for me, it's a matter of someone who hasn't been an active athlete for decades beating out a current athlete who's overcome serious obstacles. I should have mentioned that in my previous post.

Seems to me, the past recipients have generally been inactive for decades:

Quote:

Year	Recipients
1993	Jim Valvano
1994	Steve Palermo
1995	Howard Cosell
1996	Loretta Claiborne
1997	Muhammad Ali
1998	Dean Smith
1999	Billie Jean King
2000	Dave Sanders ( posthumously )
2001	Cathy Freeman
2002	Todd Beamer , Mark Bingham , Tom Burnett , and Jeremy Glick ( posthumously ) [2]
2003	Pat Tillman and Kevin Tillman [3]
2004	George Weah [4] [5]
2005	Emmanuel Ofosu Yeboah and Jim MacLaren
2006	Roia Ahmad and Shamila Kohestani
2007	Trevor Ringland and David Cullen from Peace Players International
2008	Tommie Smith and John Carlos
2009	Nelson Mandela
2010	Family of Ed Thomas
2011	Dewey Bozella
2012	Pat Summitt
2013	Robin Roberts
2014	Michael Sam
2015	Caitlyn Jenner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ashe_Courage_Award

And I've never heard of Nelson Mandela being known as an athlete?

[Jeremie Boop]

Huh. Seems to me, the past recipients have generally been inactive for decades:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ashe_Courage_Award

Point taken, I didn't really delve into the history of the Award. Just really didn't see how a veteran who has lost limbs and came back and competes in crossfit was beat out. Then again I am biased to being impressed by people who come back from physical injuries like Noah did.

[billchao]

Point taken, I didn't really delve into the history of the Award. Just really didn't see how a veteran who has lost limbs and came back and competes in crossfit was beat out. Then again I am biased to being impressed by people who come back from physical injuries like Noah did.

And this is where it gets political. Sure, he's deserving. So is a woman who won an Olympic gold medal as a man, who spent her entire life dealing with who knows what personal struggles her entire life. ESPN picked one over the other. I guess they technically could have both won if they really wanted them to.

[Jeremie Boop]

And this is where it gets political. Sure, he's deserving. So is a woman who won an Olympic gold medal as a man, who spent her entire life dealing with who knows what personal struggles her entire life. ESPN picked one over the other. I guess they technically could have both won if they really wanted them to.

I just think ESPN did it because it's a hot story. I guess this falls into the same category as when Rousey was named most dominant athlete. It comes down to someone's opinion what's more brave, but also who's name is more well known/popular at the moment.

[Mr. Desmond]

Seems to me, the past recipients have generally been inactive for decades:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ashe_Courage_Award

And I've never heard of Nelson Mandela being known as an athlete?

You did  not?

[billchao]

I just think ESPN did it because it's a hot story.

I agree. I'm not entirely certain the Arthur Ashe Courage Award is really all that prestigious, though, so I don't think it's a big deal.

You did  not?

Oh right, that Nelson Mandela. http://thesandtrap.com/t/78633/toronto-maple-leafs-jonathan-bernier-thinks-nelson-mandela-was-a-hockey-player/0_30#post_1085122

[dkolo]

The thing is The Espys don't reaaaaally matter all that much outside of coverage on Sportscenter, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it either way.

[Golfingdad]

http://deadspin.com/no-a-disabled-vet-was-not-second-place-for-arthur-ashe-1708867546

[Jeremie Boop]

http://deadspin.com/no-a-disabled-vet-was-not-second-place-for-arthur-ashe-1708867546

Interesting, I got it from an article not social media though. I admit I dropped the ball by not verifying the information by researching the ESPYs, so that was definitely my bad. I do agree that the award really is fairly meaningless in as much as it doesn't take anything into account other than opinion and the fact that Jenner is a hot topic these days.

*edit* Basically it's just a matter of "there is no second place" for the awards, in the end some arguably more deserving individuals were beat out. Of course that would be the case with anyone winning. Obviously, since the award is given purely on a subjective basis it's easy to argue that one person is more deserving than another

[newtogolf]

I just read there is a petition within the IOC to strip Jenner of her Olympic medals based on her public admission that she's always viewed herself as a woman.  According to the article, the IOC rules state that men and women may not compete against each other and if Jenner considered herself a woman during that time she was violating the rules of competition.

It's not expected to gain much support but does open a Pandora's Box.

[Jeremie Boop]

I just read there is a petition within the IOC to strip Jenner of her Olympic medals based on her public admission that she's always viewed herself as a woman.  According to the article, the IOC rules state that men and women may not compete against each other and if Jenner considered herself a woman during that time she was violating the rules of competition.

I hope that this doesn't happen, because viewing himself as a woman at the time did not make him a woman. It's a fairly ridiculous sounding petition. Even if he had transitioned to a female back then I don't think he would not have been allowed to compete. He was physically and hormonally a male at the time of competition and that's all that should matter.

[newtogolf]

I hope that this doesn't happen, because viewing himself as a woman at the time did not make him a woman. It's a fairly ridiculous sounding petition. Even if he had transitioned to a female back then I don't think he would not have been allowed to compete. He was physically and hormonally a male at the time of competition and that's all that should matter.

This is the Pandora box, people that are physically and hormonally a man but view themselves as a woman are arguing that they should be allowed to use female restrooms, etc.  What constitutes the acid test on whether a person is a man or woman, their mental self image or their physical and hormonal makeup.

[Jeremie Boop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

This is the Pandora box, people that are physically and hormonally a man but view themselves as a woman are arguing that they should be allowed to use female restrooms, etc.  What constitutes the acid test on whether a person is a man or woman, their mental self image or their physical and hormonal makeup.

I think it's more clear cut when it comes to sports though. The Olympics have a pretty strict set of conditions which must be met for a transgender person to be able to compete.

Quote:

The policy has three main requirements for both MTF and FTM trans athletes:

• They must have had gender reassignment surgery
• They must have legal recognition of their assigned gender
• They must have at least two years of hormone therapy

While not perfect (it does not, for example, give insight into intersex issues), this model has become the standard bearer against which many high-level sports organizations have measured themselves. The IOC adoption of the policy gave impetus (and sometimes political cover) for other groups to do the same.