Top 100 most popular golf instructors

[ChrisWev]

Just saw Mark Crossfield post this on his facebook:

http://members.swingmangolf.com/top-100-golf-instructors/

I would agree he's probably one of the most popular and also he's very, very, good, especially if you're good with numbers, to learn the launch monitor data etc. He's helped my game a ton and I've never had a lesson with him, only watched his videos.

My only surprise is there aren't a few other (smaller) youtube pro's or online guys in there, like:

Me and My Golf (Andy Proudman and Piers Ward)

Rick Shiels

Peter Finch

and the guys that run/ are linked to this site etc.

I find having lessons with my local pro (using GC2 HMT) has helped me with feel and to show why I'm doing what I'm doing and also watching these guys has helped me understand, at a much quicker rate than any other way (for me personally).

This is only my second summer playing golf (was injured Sep '14 - Mar '15), I'm 33 and I've gone from playing off about 40 to playing off about 16, from about 6 "face to face lessons" and loads of youtube vids.

Does anyone do anything similar to the method I've done and is it working for you?

[boogielicious]

Just saw Mark Crossfield post this on his facebook:

http://members.swingmangolf.com/top-100-golf-instructors/

I would agree he's probably one of the most popular and also he's very, very, good, especially if you're good with numbers, to learn the launch monitor data etc. He's helped my game a ton and I've never had a lesson with him, only watched his videos.

My only surprise is there aren't a few other (smaller) youtube pro's or online guys in there, like:

Me and My Golf (Andy Proudman and Piers Ward)

Rick Shiels

Peter Finch

and the guys that run/ are linked to this site etc.

I find having lessons with my local pro (using GC2 HMT) has helped me with feel and to show why I'm doing what I'm doing and also watching these guys has helped me understand, at a much quicker rate than any other way (for me personally).

This is only my second summer playing golf (was injured Sep '14 - Mar '15), I'm 33 and I've gone from playing off about 40 to playing off about 16, from about 6 "face to face lessons" and loads of youtube vids.

Does anyone do anything similar to the method I've done and is it working for you?

I've not found a local pro that I liked.  This is why I use Evolvr, my My Swing thread and all the great videos and input on this site.

I made great improvement after meeting Erik and Dave Wedzik in a group lesson.  Went from a 20 down to my lowest of ~10.  I've drifted back up lately due to injuries, but I still learn a lot from them. Lowest Score Wins is an example of a great book on golf.  The 5SK Video thread and the other threads in the Swing Thoughts section are also great.

I avoid a lot of Youtube videos because many of them are bad advice.  I'm not saying that Crossfield is bad BTW. But I'd be careful trying tips from random videos.

[ChrisWev]

I've not found a local pro that I liked.  This is why I use Evolvr, my My Swing thread and all the great videos and input on this site.

I made great improvement after meeting Erik and Dave Wedzik in a group lesson.  Went from a 20 down to my lowest of ~10.  I've drifted back up lately due to injuries, but I still learn a lot from them.  Lowest Score Wins is an example of a great book on golf.  The 5SK Video thread and the other threads in the Swing Thoughts section are also great.

I avoid a lot of Youtube videos because many of them are bad advice.  I'm not saying that Crossfield is bad BTW. But I'd be careful trying tips from random videos.

My first pro was a bit old skool and was based at my first course (which was poor) so I ended up changing course and instructors, which has worked out well, fixed my swing path from 10 in slice to 5 out draw in 20 minutes! Just working on club-face control now.

I'll look to start a swing thread when I stop tinkering and ingrain some of the things I'm working on now, to get a second/ third and fourth opinion etc form my pro and what I interpret. I also might look at Evolvr etc.

I'm going to get Lowest Score Wins after I've red my Pelz books (which have a lot of pages!). My course management is crap but I like to go for my shots, it's what makes me enjoy the game so much.

In all honesty I'm not fond of the 5SK (I know loads of you are, which is more than fine). My reasoning's are: the first two are pretty basic (I get they're meant to be simple), 3 is club dependent and will basically be what is natural and what your ball flight is, 4 doesn't make much sense to me (in to out path is going to be a draw, but nothing wrong with out to in if you want to play a cut, providing neither are excessive) providing you know where you hit on the face (impact tape) and know your launch numbers. 5 just comes with time and practice. That's the way I see it anyway, I'm far from a pro mind.

I don't watch random videos to be honest, I stick to them four (more so Crossfield, Shiels and Finch, all UK based so I can go see them in the future if need be) and some of Micklesons short game ideas. Most of them say very similar things other than when it comes to short game, but that's personal preference about what gets you the best results and what lofts you have at your disposal etc.

End of the day if the person is improving and at a rate they want to then that's up to them what they do. I'm not the kind of person that will keep doing the same things if my handicap stagnates (like Dan Plan has). He improved quick, but really should have went to see a decent pro when he got stuck at 5-6 and should have done some core/ speed/ strength work.

[iacas]

In all honesty I'm not fond of the 5SK (I know loads of you are, which is more than fine). My reasoning's are: the first two are pretty basic (I get they're meant to be simple), 3 is club dependent and will basically be what is natural and what your ball flight is, 4 doesn't make much sense to me (in to out path is going to be a draw, but nothing wrong with out to in if you want to play a cut, providing neither are excessive) providing you know where you hit on the face (impact tape) and know your launch numbers. 5 just comes with time and practice. That's the way I see it anyway, I'm far from a pro mind.

Please take this as constructive criticism. As you'll note, I'm in the U.S. and you're abroad, so the chances of me making a penny off you are slim to none (and as they say, Slim just left town).

You don't really seem to understand 5 Simple Keys®. This thread's not really about that, so I'll put everything else in a spoiler tag. I will say that this is true: EVERY good golf lesson (full swing, anyway) anyone ever gets is based on the 5SK. That's part of the beauty of the system: working on the Keys means you're working on things that let you strike the ball more solidly (Keys #1-3) or let you control the flight (#4 and #5), and there's not much else to golf (the full swing, anyway) if you can do those things well.

One last thing before I go into a spoiler tag: the 5SK are supposed to be easy to understand. That does not mean that you can "do" them easily. The golf swing is as complex as ever. The 5SK just simplifies things for the golfer and some instructors.

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You say that Key #1 and Key #2 are pretty simple, but I all but guarantee you're not doing either properly. As I mentioned above, they're simple to understand (intentionally) but they're still as complex as ever to do.

For example, Key #1: Steady Head. Easy to understand, sure. But it involves some fairly intricate motions - stretching the ankle, knee, hip, spine, shoulder, etc. at the proper rates. Bending them at the proper rates on the other side. Doing so in a way that matches your setup, shot pattern, physiology, etc. PGA Tour players work on this Key (they work on all the Keys, so I won't point this out each time, but it's true).

Key #2 is not just getting your weight forward, but doing so properly and with the right sequencing, timing, etc. It's getting your hips forward while paired with rotation properly, getting the arms down in sequence (which bleeds into Key #3), etc.

You said about Key #3 that it's "club dependent" and I would argue that it's not club dependent at all. Inline impact is essential for any club - driver to the wedges. Ball position changes, and it's often more easily achieved if Keys #1 and #2 are solid, but we still work on Key #3. PGA Tour players work on it the other way, often - they work on lining it up sooner. You, as a 17 handicapper, likely flip a fair amount.

You also said about Key #3 that it "will basically be what is natural and what your ball flight is." I would argue that it's not natural at all. If it were natural, more people would do it, and yet very, very few people achieve this with regularity. I've never seen anyone with a handicap in the double digits achieve it, and it's rare to find someone who isn't regularly shooting in the mid 70s doing it.

I don't know what "natural and what your ball flight is" has to do with Key #3. Keys #1-3 deal mostly with solid contact.

About Keys #4 you said that it doesn't make sense to you because you can play a cut. Key #4 is not "swing in to out." It's that too many players swing too much along the wall of the house (very up and down, often left too much) and some players swing too much along the floor of the house. It's also simply about controlling the path into the ball - you can easily have a problem being too far in to out, or too far out to in.  But so long as it is within a reasonable range, it doesn't matter if it's out to in slightly or in to out slightly. Key #4 simply asks that you do the things necessary to keep the path within a reasonable range, and deliver the sweet spot relatively down, out, and forward. You can do that and still hit fades.

Key #5 you said "just comes with time and practice." And… no, no it doesn't. PGA Tour pros, by and large, work on Keys #4 and #5. They work most on Key #5, typically. A clubface returned 1° right of where it needs to be at impact could be the difference between MCing and finishing top 10. It's about education, and how the grip returns the clubface to the ball, and so much more. It requires the most work of all, quite often, and does anything but "come with time and practice." Any time a player fails to hit his start line, it's a failing of Key #5.

So… you say you're not "fond of" the 5SK, but (apologies in advance for being blunt) really, you don't really understand them. Which is fine - as you say, you're not a pro. But you don't have to "buy in" or "join the cult" because, if you get a good lesson from anyone , you've gotten a 5SK lesson. So, you're buying in whether you want to or not… :D

Because the 5SK are the commonalities of the game's best players, if you're improving at one of the Keys you're improving as a golfer. It stands to reason, too… The more you have in common with the game's best, the better the golfer you are! That is the beauty of the 5SK. They focus you on the things that matter, while leaving room for any and all of the "personal quirks" or things unique to any individual's swing.

Now, I'm fully aware that this post will likely not make you a "convert." It may even make you more resolutely not "fond of" the 5SK. It really shouldn't, but as I said, I likely won't make a penny off it. I'm saying this here as much for myself and anyone else who might read it as I am for you.

[mvmac]

I'm going to get Lowest Score Wins after I've red my Pelz books (which have a lot of pages!). My course management is crap but I like to go for my shots, it's what makes me enjoy the game so much.

Awesome, I think you'll really enjoy.

In all honesty I'm not fond of the 5SK (I know loads of you are, which is more than fine). My reasoning's are: the first two are pretty basic (I get they're meant to be simple), 3 is club dependent and will basically be what is natural and what your ball flight is, 4 doesn't make much sense to me (in to out path is going to be a draw, but nothing wrong with out to in if you want to play a cut, providing neither are excessive) providing you know where you hit on the face (impact tape) and know your launch numbers. 5 just comes with time and practice. That's the way I see it anyway, I'm far from a pro mind.

In a nutshell the Keys are just the commonalities of the game's best players. From your explanation I don't think you really understand them. I'd encourage you to read @iacas 's post with an open mind, it's a good one. The Keys are meant to be basic or simple to understand but actually achieving them can take a lot of work. You'd also be surprised by how many people don't know you should keep your head steady or have your weight forward at impact.

[ChrisWev]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

Not to detract from the thread but please don't take my comment as any kind of criticism or lack of understanding (I've read a lot of the 5SK thread, but have not "implemented" it as such, so certainly not criticising something I've not done, it just seems a sort of rigid structure. I agree I may not fully understand it, how could I). The 5SK idea does seem pretty simple to understand, but if each one has another 5 points to it then it becomes less simple? It cant be both ways. I'll leave it at that anyway as I don't want to veer off on a tangent .

For me personally I react much better to numbers being put in front of me and making an effort to change them (through various sources/ ideas) rather than being told do this and do that etc. I sometimes react ok to trying to "feel" like I'm doing something, but not all the time. That's why any lesson I ever have in the future will be using a launch monitor, which all of the guys I wach are very keen on.

End of the day it's "horses for courses", everyone learns in different ways. I've had to instruct various things over the years and what seems to me to being key to being a decent instructor is being able to adapt to who is being taught and getting the most out of them.

[mvmac]

it just seems a sort of rigid structure.

It's actually a system that allows for a lot of flexibility. You can have a Leadbetter, Plane Truth, MORAD background and be a 5SK instructor. As @iacas said, any good lesson is basically a 5SK lesson because it focuses on the things that matter.

There is also flexibility within each key. You seem to think 5SK is a method or a "way to swing" when it's far from it.

The 5SK idea does seem pretty simple to understand, but if each one has another 5 points to it then it becomes less simple?

A lot of that is up to the instructor to know/understand. The Keys are also not swing thoughts so there will be more detail for the student on HOW to achieve the Key.

5SK is about prioritizing the right piece. While it's good to know the 5 commonalties of all great players, golfers will only be working on one Key at a time.

For me personally I react much better to numbers being put in front of me and making an effort to change them (through various sources/ ideas) rather than being told do this and do that etc. I sometimes react ok to trying to "feel" like I'm doing something, but not all the time. That's why any lesson I ever have in the future will be using a launch monitor, which all of the guys I wach are very keen on.

Plenty of 5SK guys use FlightScope/Trackman.

[ChrisWev]

Fair enough Mike, I might look into a little bit more later down the line.

[iacas]

Plenty of 5SK guys use FlightScope/Trackman.

Yeah, seriously… Dave and I are FlightScope Ambassadors, after all, and teach and use D-Plane and so on all the time. We've been the educational presenters on this topic at our local and nearby PGA sections, etc.

That's why any lesson I ever have in the future will be using a launch monitor, which all of the guys I wach are very keen on.

To add to what @mvmac said, a launch monitor is probably overkill for you. You need to learn to hit the ball solidly first. You don't need a launch monitor to tell you that you hit the ball fat or thin. I've never met and likely never will meet a 17 who hits the ball as solidly as they should.

[ChrisWev]

To add to what @mvmac said, a launch monitor is probably overkill for you. You need to learn to hit the ball solidly first. You don't need a launch monitor to tell you that you hit the ball fat or thin. I've never met and likely never will meet a 17 who hits the ball as solidly as they should.

You may be right but to be honest I would disagree (as would my pro and the people I play with), for the reasons below, sorry if this gets long but I like to provide an explination to my reasoning:

Don't read too much into my HCP on here, it's come down about 5 strokes in the last 2 month and the Congu HCP system is slow to react to fast improvement. My handicap is including never practising putting and bunker shots as I'm not prioritising these at the minute. I never warm up either and don't take mulligans etc. As far as looking at my iron play goes, I've only played with one other person in the 12+ region who hit their irons as cleanly as I do, but my swing tempo varies quite a bit. Pretty much everyone I play with (who I don't know) says "no way are you a 17/18, you would be lucky to be playing off 15", then the see how bad I am at putting and in bunkers (which are nearly always wet, which I've never practised). Over here it's like everyone gets mad when their handicap gets cut, to me that's a big positive.

My putts average is 2 per hole for the last 5 rounds, which doesn't sound like the end of the world but considering I chip very well for my leve, this is very bad. I can chip one to 3ft and putt that, but anything from 6ft is 80% a 2 putt,  and anything more than 20ft is 50% a 3 putt. This probably costs me 4 shots a round on it's own. A few lessons on putting and some time on the practice green could get me to mediocre putting within a week but I find it boring as hell, so not interested in that yet.

I very rarely hit my irons fat or thin, It just looks like I hit the ball low, but this is probably due to me messing with my path and closing the clubface taking loft off (I wouldn't know this without the launch monitor data) . A lot of my irons hit the front of the green and just run all the way through it, the ball I've been using hasn't helped either, but this is getting changed.

As far as my handicap went I would probably rate myself in this region:

Driver - 15

3 wood off the deck - 12

3 Hybrid - 23 - I don't like this club, feels to whippy

Irons - 10

Chipping and pitching inside 30 yards - 9

Pitching - 30-80 yards - 15

Putting - 36

Bunkers - 22 if dry (36 if wet, literally never practiced this ever)

I do plan on getting my putting sorted (probably over winter), but I wan't to get my distance and consitant loft with my irons sorted first.

I'm going to get LSW when I'm interested in playing more comps and this will be crucial for that, as I know my course management is terrible. At the minute I play like tin cup and pretty much go for every shot as I like to try new things and keep it interesting. If I implement the above a can see myself breaking 80 early next summer, I had 5 pars in a row in my last round so it's definitely in there.

I would be happy to recieve any comments on the above, whether you think this is the right way to go or not? I just do what I think is best for me and to keep me interested but always appreciate outside opinion. But I'm quite stubborn, as you can probably tell

[mvmac]

I would be happy to recieve any comments on the above, whether you think this is the right way to go or not? I just do what I think is best for me and to keep me interested but always appreciate outside opinion. But I'm quite stubborn, as you can probably tell

The point of what @iacas was saying is that if you're a 17 your ballstriking needs work. More than likely you'll be focusing on Keys 1 or 2 to improve your impact dynamics and hit it better off the tee and hit more greens. Also, not hitting it fat or thin doesn't mean you're hitting it solid.

To clarify, when I say you'll be working on Keys 1 or 2 I don't mean those will be your swing thoughts. You'll be working on pieces that will improve your pivot or your ability to get more weight forward (and move low point forward) on the downswing.

[ChrisWev]

This is probably for it's own thread (think I'll repost it if I can):

Actually I've just noticed something on Game Golf with regards to ball striking, a lot of my irons seem to be bunching together over the last 5 rounds, should I read much into this?

These are totals and I tend to grip down on some to get yardages which might account for some variations, my course is flat so none of these are really hitting downhill/ uphill.

Left is last 5 rounds, right is all rounds

My 5i is very poor, I think I might have been hitting it out of the heel (I don't use my 4i).

Some gapping I carried out on 4 July:

My ball speed doesn't seem to increase much between my 7i-5i and the loft doesn't change much either, any idea why this would be?

As a whole I would say these are all under reading by about 5%, compared to my last set of numbers on GC2 HMT and what I see on the course (think it might be to do with the mat I hit off but some are saying it's software issue with the latest Skytrak release). Club speed is "estimated" on SkyTrak, but it's well under as it basically works this out on more than a max smash factor from the ball speed (which I doubt I get). My 7i club speed is ususally 89-93 mph on GC2 HMT.

Gapping averages are based on taking about 15 shots, taking the top 2-5 out (depending on how many shots are hit) and the ones that are left below the select 5.

An interesting thing on there is the spin numbers for the Bridgestone E7, they never seem to change , not sure if this is me or the ball but the numbers are the same on GC2 HMT.

Good news is my last two rounds were +8 off 10 holes (had 5 pars in a row, before getting cocky) without warming up, and a +8 off 9 holes (which would adjust to +7 off 9 holes as far as Congu handicap goes). I should have been 1 under par off 4 holes here. 3 putted the first from 15 feet (didn't have a clue about the speed of the greens, very slow!) and missed a 4 foot birdie putt on 4 :( Both of these rounds would have been me playing to roughly +14 level.

[iacas]

Left is last 5 rounds, right is all rounds

Please don't attach images (as attachments) - please just embed them. If you attach images people have to download them to see them. PITA.

Your sample size is too small to really say what's going on. You probably don't hit your 7I 170 and you have only three 5I to base the yardages on.

My ball speed doesn't seem to increase much between my 7i-5i and the loft doesn't change much either, any idea why this would be?

You don't have command of Keys #1-3. You flip at the ball. 20°+ is too high a launch angle for all of those clubs, but particularly the 5I. PGA Tour players launch their 9I lower than you launched some of your 5I.

You don't have a "Member Swing" thread, so beyond making some guesses, that's all anyone can do - guess.

I know this is your thread, but it feels very off topic. We could rename the thread for you if you'd prefer, because this doesn't have much to do with "Top 100 Most Popular Golf Instructors."

[ChrisWev]

Thanks Erik, I've put this into another thread, so you can delete the irrelevant posts if you like as it's gone by the wayside ;-)