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Posted

Top Flite Gamer is not usually available in the UK.

You could try Callaway Chrome Soft or TaylorMade Project(a).

At your (and my level) ball selection depends very much upon "try it and see" experimentation.  Buy a couple of tubes and change for the back nine.  I would recommend experimentation during actual play rather than on the  practice ground. Good Luck.


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Posted
Of course there is, all spin axis is is a combination of the two and is why GC2 HMT lists figures for back spin and side spin and a figure for the combined "spin axis".

You're not understanding.


There's no such thing as "backspin" or "sidespin." There is only one spin. If a launch monitor gives you "sidespin" it's calculating that (it's not a difficult calculation - just a little trigonometry).

Spin is spin. A ball that "spins more" with any particular club will slice and draw more too.

A ball doesn't know or care where we choose to define a coordinate system - it only cares about a relatively flat surface (in the case of irons anyway) impacting it and the resulting single axis about which it spins.

I know what you mean though, but some balls list eliminating side spin on all shots, reduce back spin on long shots but maintaining back spin on wedges and around greens, which I find hard to believe. Surely has to be give and take to a degree?

It's just marketing.

Spin levels can vary non-linearly - a driver's spin rate is primarily governed by the core materials, while a wedge's spin rate(s) are primarily governed by the outer layer or cover material. But again, that's "spin levels" period - if a company says "reduces side spin" then either they're lying or they're also saying "reduces spin" (for whatever type of shot they're talking about).

Spin access is the somewhat middle ground of the ratio between backspin and side-spin, which tilts the axis through a complex calculation (which I don't know), the ball manufactures won't list anything to do with spin axis on their sites as most won't understand it.

Backspin and sidespin are the calculations, really. The ball only spins around one axis. The axis isn't tilted because of the "side spin" - the axis is tilted because that's what the shot produces.

I agree that most won't understand it. Like I said, it's basic trigonometry. ;-)

Here the ball spins ONLY on the black line (the axis is of course perpendicular to this). The "side spin" is the blue line and is thus calculated. If "back spin" numbers are given, it's the calculated red line.

Anyway… long story short, balls can't "reduce side spin" without also reducing "spin" period.

Also… please multiquote, @ChrisWev : . Thank you.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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Posted

Anyway… long story short, balls can't "reduce side spin" without also reducing "spin" period.

Also… please multiquote, @ChrisWev :  ​ . Thank you.

Thanks for the response Erik.

About the physics stuff, I totally get that (I used to be an aircraft avionics engineer, and is fairly similar to rotors in gyroscope theory etc), and know that the ball only rotates/ spins on one axis, unless there are outside influences. It's what they're calling "back spin" isn't exactly termed correctly, but I know what you mean, you know what I meant and most understand what is meant when the term "back spin"  and "side spin" is used. Spin access doesn't get used a lot as I would expect most don't have the mental ability to understand it.

Totally agree that you you can't reduce side-spin without reducing backspin, ie the spin axis is both intertwined.

I can understand how spin properties can change for driver and wedges though, this is basically due to the 3/4 cores and how the ball reacts differently at certain speeds/ compression etc. Hence why low spinning drives (at 150mph ball speed) and good backspin with wedges and on and around the greens (20-90mph bs?) are plotted on all the robot the charts. Sidespin and spin axis shouldn't matter too much with the more lofted clubs due to the D-Plane. Ie I'm not going to be hooking a wedge.

Sorry about the multiquote, I was using my phone and it's not ideal to do that.

Chris 

Ex-field hockey player with a few things on my list to correct/ sort out:
1:  Flipping, 2: Overswing, 3: Stop being Tin Cup

Been playing properly since May 2014, got the bug now, so I'm here forever. Must have watched a billion hours of youtube videos, seems to help!


Posted

Top Flite Gamer is not usually available in the UK.

You could try Callaway Chrome Soft or TaylorMade Project(a).

At your (and my level) ball selection depends very much upon "try it and see" experimentation.  Buy a couple of tubes and change for the back nine.  I would recommend experimentation during actual play rather than on the  practice ground. Good Luck.

Basically I'm going to start with this as my bible:

http://www.golfdigest.com/images/equipment/2014-05/eqsl32-hot-list-ball-spin-rate-chart.jpg

My only worry with the Project a is the extra driver spin (which most don't want), this might be hard to keep in the fairway which makes the bonus of the ball (the high spin) become negligible from the rough, with less spin due to less friction on the clubface from grass/ water etc. Saying that the ball will probably launch higher to counteract that a bit.

This is all totally give and take and the way I see it, unless you pay the price it's going to be:

Hard ball: Low spin, good driver distance, less hook/slice, approach shots are hard to factor due to the fact the ball is going to be bouncing towards the hole (ie not much control over length)

Med Ball: Med spin, average distance with driver, bit more wayward with the drives, less roll on greens

Soft Ball: Harder to control with driver but if you hit the fairway, the shot to green should stick (if you hit that too).

I'm going to try:

Project (a)

NXT tour

Z-Star or Z-star XV

Chris 

Ex-field hockey player with a few things on my list to correct/ sort out:
1:  Flipping, 2: Overswing, 3: Stop being Tin Cup

Been playing properly since May 2014, got the bug now, so I'm here forever. Must have watched a billion hours of youtube videos, seems to help!


Posted

Basically I'm going to start with this as my bible:

http://www.golfdigest.com/images/equipment/2014-05/eqsl32-hot-list-ball-spin-rate-chart.jpg

My only worry with the Project a is the extra driver spin (which most don't want), this might be hard to keep in the fairway which makes the bonus of the ball (the high spin) become negligible from the rough, with less spin due to less friction on the clubface from grass/ water etc. Saying that the ball will probably launch higher to counteract that a bit.

This is all totally give and take and the way I see it, unless you pay the price it's going to be:

Hard ball: Low spin, good driver distance, less hook/slice, approach shots are hard to factor due to the fact the ball is going to be bouncing towards the hole (ie not much control over length)

Med Ball: Med spin, average distance with driver, bit more wayward with the drives, less roll on greens

Soft Ball: Harder to control with driver but if you hit the fairway, the shot to green should stick (if you hit that too).

I'm going to try:

Project (a)

NXT tour

Z-Star or Z-star XV


You are overthinking this... don't.

Project(a) is a fine ball, and if your greens are hard, you will not get the short game spin of a premium ball. If you can find a Rocketballz Urethane for less, it's the same ball, with a little "improvement" since it is the next iteration.

NXT Tour ... an overpriced Titleist ball with less spin for the short game.

Srixon ... haven't used them in a while but find one with a urethane cover.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

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Posted

You are overthinking this... don't.

Project(a) is a fine ball, and if your greens are hard, you will not get the short game spin of a premium ball. If you can find a Rocketballz Urethane for less, it's the same ball, with a little "improvement" since it is the next iteration.

NXT Tour ... an overpriced Titleist ball with less spin for the short game.

Srixon ... haven't used them in a while but find one with a urethane cover.

QFT

Just about anything with a urethane cover will give you the short game and iron game performance you need. NXT and NXT Tour are the biggest waste of money in the golf ball market, you're essentially paying a premium ball price for an unremarkable mid grade ball that happens to say Titleist.

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Posted

Here's the 2015 version of that driver vs half-wedge spin graph.

From looking at the graph the E5 sure seems like a good value ball that will give the extra short game spin that you want.

http://www.golfdigest.com/images/equipment/2014-05/eqsl32-hot-list-ball-spin-rate-chart.jpg


Posted

Not a lot of love for the Titleist, which is surprising considering it's a four piece ball. I't's not going to be cheap to make.

I'm going to try the Bridgestone E5 out too, something deterred me form this but can't remember what it was. It might have been the swing speed it's recommended for. I know it's a two-piece ball but if it's "almost" as good as the others it's certainly worth a shot, at about 40% cheaper price.

The E5 could be the stepping stone whilst I'm still improving quickly and still prone to loosing a few.

Bizzarely when playing on my own I lose a lot more balls from basically not watching where they go until the ball stops moving, or losing them in the sun, rather than smashing them OOB or in the water.

Chris 

Ex-field hockey player with a few things on my list to correct/ sort out:
1:  Flipping, 2: Overswing, 3: Stop being Tin Cup

Been playing properly since May 2014, got the bug now, so I'm here forever. Must have watched a billion hours of youtube videos, seems to help!


Posted

Would suggest the chrome soft, Snell balls, Taylormade project a, titleist velocity balls are actually decent

Also I have never seen anyone talk about them but I found some Taylormade aerobuner golf balls that are like 26 bucks a dozen, 3 piece and I have only ever seen them at target but I played a sleeve of them this week and they felt really nice.

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Posted

Not a lot of love for the Titleist, which is surprising considering it's a four piece ball. I't's not going to be cheap to make.

I'm going to try the Bridgestone E5 out too, something deterred me form this but can't remember what it was. It might have been the swing speed it's recommended for. I know it's a two-piece ball but if it's "almost" as good as the others it's certainly worth a shot, at about 40% cheaper price.

The E5 could be the stepping stone whilst I'm still improving quickly and still prone to loosing a few.

Bizzarely when playing on my own I lose a lot more balls from basically not watching where they go until the ball stops moving, or losing them in the sun, rather than smashing them OOB or in the water.

I played the e5 when it first arrived on the scene. It did spin around the greens, but it was a hard feeling, high launcher that lost too much yardage.

I dropped it.

BUT I understand they have improved it over the last 10 years - probably 3-4X, and I played it again about 2 years ago. It was still hard feeling and distance challenged. Then, earlier this year some guys were raving about the newest version ... it was long and ..

So I have no idea ... I am leery. But it's worth a sleeve to try.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

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Posted

I would go for whatever is cheapest only b/c you are going to end up losing these balls over time anyway.  As long as you use a good pair of clubs you should be fine ;)


Posted
Would suggest the chrome soft, Snell balls, Taylormade project a, titleist velocity balls are actually decent

Also I have never seen anyone talk about them but I found some Taylormade aerobuner golf balls that are like 26 bucks a dozen, 3 piece and I have only ever seen them at target but I played a sleeve of them this week and they felt really nice.

I don't really want to use Callaway as they change balls more than I've had hot dinners, which means I would probably have to pay full price for them and would be hard to stick to the same ball. Snell are unavailable in the UK. I'll be trying Project A, Velocities might be more of a distance ball.

I played the e5 when it first arrived on the scene. It did spin around the greens, but it was a hard feeling, high launcher that lost too much yardage.

I dropped it.

BUT I understand they have improved it over the last 10 years - probably 3-4X, and I played it again about 2 years ago. It was still hard feeling and distance challenged. Then, earlier this year some guys were raving about the newest version ... it was long and ..

So I have no idea ... I am leery. But it's worth a sleeve to try.

I don't mid a higher launch as my ball flight is pretty low I think, so I'll be giving these a shot.

I would go for whatever is cheapest only b/c you are going to end up losing these balls over time anyway.  As long as you use a good pair of clubs you should be fine ;)

Under that theory we should all play with pebbles or range balls? I'd go as far as to say that the club is the thing that will have the least effect on the players game as far as the difference between manufacturers goes. From all the reviews there is never more than a couple of yards difference with clubs, and that's normally down to stronger lofts and varying shafts.

Chris 

Ex-field hockey player with a few things on my list to correct/ sort out:
1:  Flipping, 2: Overswing, 3: Stop being Tin Cup

Been playing properly since May 2014, got the bug now, so I'm here forever. Must have watched a billion hours of youtube videos, seems to help!


Posted
I played the Volvik S3 today. It is long and straight with a lot of greenside spin.

Driver.......Ping K15 9.5* stiff 3 wood.....Ping K15 16* stiff 5 wood.....Ping K15 19* stiff 4 Hybrid...Cleveland Gliderail 23* stiff 5 - PW......Pinhawk SL GW...........Tommy Armour 52* SW...........Tommy Armour 56* LW...........Tommy Armour 60* FW...........Diamond Tour 68* Putter.......Golfsmith Dyna Mite Ball..........Volvik Vista iV Green Bag..........Bennington Quiet Organizer Shoes.... ..Crocs


Posted

I played the Volvik S3 today. It is long and straight with a lot of greenside spin.

They look good on all the charts but they're pricey new, and not common in the UK so I doubt I could get them cheap or a "lakeball" variant.

Chris 

Ex-field hockey player with a few things on my list to correct/ sort out:
1:  Flipping, 2: Overswing, 3: Stop being Tin Cup

Been playing properly since May 2014, got the bug now, so I'm here forever. Must have watched a billion hours of youtube videos, seems to help!


Posted
I've looked for Volvik used balls and all they list are the Crystals, which are hard rocks. I really like the Nike RZN too. They are also pricey. I rarely lose balls, so price doesn't matter. I lost a ball yesterday for the first time in months. A shank no less. I also like the Maxfli U6. Lots of spin. It's been a few months since I played them, but I think they are plenty long as well.

Driver.......Ping K15 9.5* stiff 3 wood.....Ping K15 16* stiff 5 wood.....Ping K15 19* stiff 4 Hybrid...Cleveland Gliderail 23* stiff 5 - PW......Pinhawk SL GW...........Tommy Armour 52* SW...........Tommy Armour 56* LW...........Tommy Armour 60* FW...........Diamond Tour 68* Putter.......Golfsmith Dyna Mite Ball..........Volvik Vista iV Green Bag..........Bennington Quiet Organizer Shoes.... ..Crocs


Note: This thread is 3827 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. 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Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. 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    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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