My Quest to Break 80 in a Year (July 2016) from a 22 Handicap

[RandallT]

Thanks Randall

I've got kinovea which is cracking for splitting it up, drawing lines (swing plane) and doing frame by frame etc. I've rarely used it recently though as I can only film my swing without real balls (limited garden) outside, don't want to risk my neighbours cars/ windows. Most of my work is in the garage and can't film in there or on course (no time to set up). I would have used my iPhone instead of the SLR (120 or 240 FPS) but it narrows the FOV too much to be worth anything.

Really appreciate the effort of breaking it down for all to see though, should hopefully give others an easier insight into how to help/ educate me :)

I would bet $20 that you would expect me to have some kind of software/ anylitical tool to video my swing though?

I figured you might have some analysis tool!

For what it's worth (and I'm absolutely no expert), I see a lot of my own swing in yours. On your backswing, you stand up a bit, which flattens your shoulders.  You need to keep that left shoulder going down under your chin. If you look at your DTL posture, the shoulders should rotate at a perpendicular to your spine angle there. Yours flattens a bit (goes with the standing up a bit). When you set your posture, rotate around that spine angle. It feels more aggressive- like you're really going after the ball. It feels good! Don't back off it by lifting your head and getting flatter (very apparent in DTL vid).

If you do that and keep your right elbow tucked close and just in front of your shirt seam, your club will not go way past parallel. It might feel goofy at first, but practice a 90 degree shoulder turn with your right elbow staying controlled (there are threads here about its proper position). It will ultimately feel more controlled, and less loose.

Then you can worry about your downswing.

Again, I'm NO EXPERT, but I those were things pointed out to me, and I see similarities. I figure a decent backswing cannot hurt. Get that straightened out first- is what I suggest.

[ChrisWev]

I figured you might have some analysis tool!

For what it's worth (and I'm absolutely no expert), I see a lot of my own swing in yours. On your backswing, you stand up a bit, which flattens your shoulders.  You need to keep that left shoulder going down under your chin. If you look at your DTL posture, the shoulders should rotate at a perpendicular to your spine angle there. Yours flattens a bit (goes with the standing up a bit). When you set your posture, rotate around that spine angle. It feels more aggressive- like you're really going after the ball. It feels good! Don't back off it by lifting your head and getting flatter (very apparent in DTL vid).

If you do that and keep your right elbow tucked close and just in front of your shirt seam, your club will not go way past parallel. It might feel goofy at first, but practice a 90 degree shoulder turn with your right elbow staying controlled (there are threads here about its proper position). It will ultimately feel more controlled, and less loose.

Then you can worry about your downswing.

Again, I'm NO EXPERT, but I those were things pointed out to me, and I see similarities. I figure a decent backswing cannot hurt. Get that straightened out first- is what I suggest.

Yeah I feel like I need to stand upright, and sort of arch my back back/ upwards! As if I don't I look very hunchbacked (too many years working on a computer) on the DTL, upright doesn't make me feel all that comfortable in all honesty, but it's how I've heard and seen I "should be"? I'm not sure what you mean by flattening shoulders? Would this be poor rotation? I've played field hockey all my life which is very much a no rotation and big collapse swing, which is hard to get out of. I've quit hitting the ball playing hockey though, at 33 I'm past it now anyway! So now I'm trying not to collapse I'm not getting a full swing/ need to get more rotation to compensate for irrepetable collapse swing? I know it may  not look like it but that collapse is nothing compared to last month. I can feel a change which has greatly helped where I impact on the club face, even though it is still nowhere near looking "textbook".

I experimented with the golf tee/ towel/ headcover under my right armpit on backswing (to keep it locked in) but it just didn't feel great and led to some crazy strikes which I can't risk in the garage/ swing room (had a few shanks zip past my head)!

It's going to take some serious stretching to get my shoulders 90 degrees to my lower body (if it's even possible). Going to be more medicine ball work I think.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWev

I'm not sure what you mean by flattening shoulders?

At the top of your backswing in the DTL view, draw a line from one shoulder to the other. Compare that to other pros.  Your line is very horizontal.  Most pros will be pointing down more steeply. More tilt to their torso.  That's all I meant.

Again, I could be way off.

[ChrisWev]

At the top of your backswing in the DTL view, draw a line from one shoulder to the other. Compare that to other pros.  Your line is very horizontal.  Most pros will be pointing down more steeply. More tilt to their torso.  That's all I meant.

Again, I could be way off.

You beat me too it, I was going too post this!

After that point my shoulders stay the same angle just lift up more as I swing further back. Think that may be due to be being told to "swing around" more and being scared of  a steeper backswing as I used to be very steep on downswing and very out to in (hockey again).

[ChrisWev]

Might have a slight problem going any higher though as my shoulders are unstable due to me used to being working on aircraft with my arms above shoulder height (also playing hockey too) and now having a desk job (muscles contract to hold them forward apparently, I forget what the problem is but it's very common). Anything above 90 degrees to my shoulders makes them sort of pop out as the muscles are tight forwards apparently.

This is very treatable though, but as I'm going through knee MRI's (causes foot pain from a crushed nerve playing hockey) and nerve tests it's not something I can tackle at the same time unfortunately as the NHS physio's aren't great at sorting one thing out. I should have my knee results next week though and once clear of that I can concentrate on my dodgy shoulders and back.

There's no pain in my knee or foot at the minute (and nothing from golf) so don't worry too much about thinking you're going to cause me medical problems, I'm fully aware of what I can/ can't do and what I will try etc.

[iTzJordyyyy]

Your not clearing you hips in the swing. You hips and core initiate the down swing once the club is loaded at the top. Your swinging with your arm and shoulder power therefore producing no torque through the ball, you've done well to get down to a 22. Put a slo mo video up and you'll see your hips are square on impact. Think about throwing a ball. Cock the hand hips twist and move forward, arm follows

[ChrisWev]

I've never really thought about that TBH and it's not something I hear mentioned a lot. Do you mean start the swing with the torso, like Rory whipping his hips and body around like a spring uncoiling?

Lihu mentioned flicking/ flipping which I know is bad and I never realised I did that so I will look into that first as that's certainly killing my LA, unless you mean the same thing?

I like the youtube guys M&M; Golf and Crossfield so will give the below a whirl. Not sure whether I should totally sort this collapse out first.

[Lihu]

Your not clearing you hips in the swing. You hips and core initiate the down swing once the club is loaded at the top. Your swinging with your arm and shoulder power therefore producing no torque through the ball, you've done well to get down to a 22. Put a slo mo video up and you'll see your hips are square on impact. Think about throwing a ball. Cock the hand hips twist and move forward, arm follows

Good call. The frame by frame from RandallT really shows what's going on. One thing I wanted to note is that it's still possible to initiate the swing with core muscles then not clear your hips, which is why he still gets some power for the distance/spin numbers he quoted in other posts.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTzJordyyyy

Your not clearing you hips in the swing. You hips and core initiate the down swing once the club is loaded at the top. Your swinging with your arm and shoulder power therefore producing no torque through the ball, you've done well to get down to a 22. Put a slo mo video up and you'll see your hips are square on impact. Think about throwing a ball. Cock the hand hips twist and move forward, arm follows

Good call. The frame by frame from RandallT really shows what's going on. One thing I wanted to note is that it's still possible to initiate the swing with core muscles then not clear your hips, which is why he still gets some power for the distance/spin numbers he quoted in other posts.

I'll chime in again, just as someone at a somewhat similar level as Chris (struggling with the same last second "stand" at the top of the backswing):

If I get to the position that I see Robert Rock in (the one I compared with Chris in my post above), it is much easier somehow to then initiate the downswing with the hips/core and start to clear them.

I have lots of slow motion mirror work left and range work to do, but I am beginning to move from what Chris is doing to what Robert is doing (let's hope anyway), so I feel both sensations right now.  iTzJordyyy is right, and the sensation you start to feel is that you are more or less doing the weight transfer for throwing a ball.

Anyway, take that for what it's worth, just one struggling golfer's "feel" who hasn't proven yet whether or not it works in the real world, but is hopeful it will pay dividends.

[iTzJordyyyy]

The swing should feel natural. Look at dynamic lessons as apposed to static points in your swings. The swing should feel natural. If you think to much about it, you'll stuggle more. The best place to learn your swing is on the course. Everyone can hit them on the range. Book a tea time on your own. Hit 2 or 3 down and play them.

[Lihu]

The swing should feel natural. Look at dynamic lessons as apposed to static points in your swings. The swing should feel natural. If you think to much about it, you'll stuggle more. The best place to learn your swing is on the course. Everyone can hit them on the range. Book a tea time on your own. Hit 2 or 3 down and play them.

This also very true.

[marklemcd]

Based on the video, you need to work on key 1, a lot.

[shooter]

Paralysis by analysis could be the op's hurdle going forward. Hit it. Find it. Hit it again. Repeat in as few attempts as possible. Sounds easier than all data on this thread. You know why shaq sucked at free throws. Cause he thought about them.

[iTzJordyyyy]

Paralysis by analysis could be the op's hurdle going forward. Hit it. Find it. Hit it again. Repeat in as few attempts as possible. Sounds easier than all data on this thread. You know why shaq sucked at free throws. Cause he thought about them.

BOOM!!

[ChrisWev]

On from the earlier posts regarding the high launch I've been practicing a bit with trying to stop flipping. My follow through feels totally different now, and hands feel higher, it feels good actually.

That was the only thing I was thinking about when swinging so other bits are probably all over the place, but I'm not bothered about that until I ingrain this in.

Before and after:

I'm not too sure really what you guys mean about clearing the hips, but I'll read up on that as something to tackle in the coming weeks.

[Lihu]

On from the earlier posts regarding the high launch I've been practicing a bit with trying to stop flipping. My follow through feels totally different now, and hands feel higher, it feels good actually. That was the only thing I was thinking about when swinging so other bits are probably all over the place, but I'm not bothered about that until I ingrain this in. Before and after: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/131337/] [/URL] I'm not too sure really what you guys mean about clearing the hips, but I'll read up on that as something to tackle in the coming weeks.

Clearing the hips is just getting the hips turned first. Looks like you are working to fix the flip, nice work. It takes time to ingrain any changes.

[iTzJordyyyy]

It takes a while. All power is produced by your you core and hips. It's something called torque. Your arms are a mere extension of the core. It all then leads to load and lag on a golf club. Read into ball flight theory. Go see a PGA Pro before you get into bad habits. Utilising your hips is hard and can be done wrong and will mess your swing and game up more. It takes time and you'll get worse before you get better.

[RandallT]

Here's some more material here on TST:

Here's a good instructional video on inline impact (called "flat wrist" at the time):

Here's a good thread:

Here's another: