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Posted
I'm interested to learn how frequently the scratch golfers here practice, play, and play competitively. If you are (or have previously been) a scratch player I would really appreciate some quick replies to these questions: 1) How often do you practice at the range, and how much time do you spend on short game vs. full swing? 2) How many holes do you play each week, on average? 3) How often do you play competitively? 4) What are your playing habits in the offseason? (Do you hit balls often at an indoor range or on a stimulator, for example) Thanks in advance for any info you can pass along!

Posted

I'm sorry to say there is no "routine" to find your way to scratch. I've seen some guys with really strong fundamentals but rarely get out anymore because of work, kids, etc but they still kill it whenever they do get out. Then you have your scratch players that are constantly working to maintain their games and play like crap after any sort of layoff. Get the 5 keys integrated into your swing and you won't need to work like a dog to break 80.  http://thesandtrap.com/t/55426/introducing-five-simple-keys I've been doing a lot of work the past couple seasons undoing all the bad habits I got from practicing the wrong things and going by feel.

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Posted

1) How often do you practice at the range, and how much time do you spend on short game vs. full swing?

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Mike McLoughlin

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Posted


Hogan said,..."Everyday you don't practice adds a day to achieving your golf goals". I agree. Ya don't have to hit 500 balls a day, but one should always put the hands around a club every day, and hit a few balls when you can. 20-30 full swings gets a nice rhythm going and  keeps that feel intact.

Tough to do  in northern climates, so you may have to be resourceful. imo


Posted
Thanks for the replies guys. Guess my original post wasn't clear, but I'm not looking for an answer to "How do I become a scratch golfer?" There's no question that there are many ways to skin that cat (and many opinions about how best to go about it). I'm simply curious to hear how the guys here who are (or have been) scratch have developed their games based on frequency and style of practice/play/competition, both during peak season and offseason if they live in a cold climate. Thanks again to anyone who's willing to provide those specific details here!

Posted

here is what it is for me.  (0.4 index now, but have been plus in the past)

Driver/3wood: 15%

all other long-game (focus on hitting the 9 ball flights): 20%

wedge distance control: 25%

chipping/bunkers: 25%

putting (almost all lag putting): 10%

special shots:  (recovery shots, uneven lies) 5%

This is how I spend my time in season.   I generally play 18 holes on one weekend day and 9 holes after work during the week.  Will also spend a 1-1.5 hour practice season.  might also play 9 with my daughter one day as well.   during these I will always be working on somethign.  (e.g. hit every shot left to right,  take ultra conservative line)

Not saying it is the right thing, but its right for me.  Putting is by far my strength and driving is my biggest weakness.   For me the biggest gap is see in others is 1) not spending enough time on wedge distance control (this is where you score) and 2) not practicing lag putting.   I dont think i have practiced a 7 foot putt in years and I average 1 3 putt every 50 holes.

Living in the north, I do a bit more long game in the offseason, but dont practice that much.   I honestly belief spending more time in the gym and focus on flexibility will do better than bashing balls.

hope this helps.


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Posted
here is what it is for me.  (0.4 index now, but have been plus in the past)

Driver/3wood: 15%

all other long-game (focus on hitting the 9 ball flights): 20%

wedge distance control: 25%

chipping/bunkers: 25%

putting (almost all lag putting): 10%

special shots:  (recovery shots, uneven lies) 5%

This is how I spend my time in season.   I generally play 18 holes on one weekend day and 9 holes after work during the week.  Will also spend a 1-1.5 hour practice season.  might also play 9 with my daughter one day as well.   during these I will always be working on somethign.  (e.g. hit every shot left to right,  take ultra conservative line)

Not saying it is the right thing, but its right for me.  Putting is by far my strength and driving is my biggest weakness.   For me the biggest gap is see in others is 1) not spending enough time on wedge distance control (this is where you score) and 2) not practicing lag putting.   I dont think i have practiced a 7 foot putt in years and I average 1 3 putt every 50 holes.

Living in the north, I do a bit more long game in the offseason, but dont practice that much.   I honestly belief spending more time in the gym and focus on flexibility will do better than bashing balls.

You'd be surprised (bold). Those distance wedges aren't terribly important in the end. Even the average PGA Tour player hits his shots from 75-100 yards (from the fairway) to over 17': http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.075.html .

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Posted

thanks for sharing the links.  really appreciated.

also, I definte distance wedge a bit different than you.   I consider it everything from 25-120 yards. i probably spend more time 30-60 yards than 70-120, but your point in still very well taken.

for me, where this has helped me is around par 5 scoring and on short par 4s..   my home course has a couple of risk reward par 5s where layup is the smart play.   focusing on this has helped me move from 20% birdie rate to a bit over 50%.

that said, i appreciate your research and will likely dial the longer wedges back a bit.


Posted

Thanks for the replies guys. Guess my original post wasn't clear, but I'm not looking for an answer to "How do I become a scratch golfer?" There's no question that there are many ways to skin that cat (and many opinions about how best to go about it).

I'm simply curious to hear how the guys here who are (or have been) scratch have developed their games based on frequency and style of practice/play/competition, both during peak season and offseason if they live in a cold climate. Thanks again to anyone who's willing to provide those specific details here!


Reality, most scratch golfers have God given natural athletic abilities.

Eye/Hand co-ordination, balance, natural swing basics, flexibility, and athletic back-rounds.

Many start at a young age and build through playing, instruction, practice.

Not saying, improvements can not be made by dedication to playing, instruction and practice, as one gets older.

Many of those I know, do practice often, play frequently and take lessons when needed.

Not many play through cold climate.

Hope this answers your questions, Club Rat

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
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    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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