Passive torso with a driver

[ryunin]

I disagree that the swing is the same. The goals are different, after all, and there are subtle changes.

I am afriad this is a semantic problem rahter than a golf problem. What does "same" mean and what does "different" mean? Basically, I think it is the same swing, but there are important differences, as far as I was instructed. With the driver, you hit the ball going up, with irons, going down. Also I don't know if the driver magnifies our swing problems with irons. When I warm up with irons, I can shoot straight consistently, but with a driver I slice two balls, then pull five balls, one straight and over and over again, the swing has no solid basis yet, obviously, and the balls are going everywhere, whereas with my irons I need to warm up, relax and feel confident and it works. For example with irons when I push a bit, I just need to move my arms closer to my body or rather keep my arms closer to the body - problem solved, always, this doesn't work with a driver at all. I really don't think, even as a 36capper, that moving your arms closer or farher from your core could solve pushing with a driver, plus I hardly ever push with a driver, I either slice, not so often or pull, very often. So in my limited experience I have very different issues with my driver as compared to the irons. My teacher also taught me and tried to solve very different things when we worked with irons and a driver. We focused on very different things, really, as if these two were two different disciplines.

Just a little note which is a bit irrelevant, but just want to tell you that for some reason I feel relaxed and cool with my 5 wood. I've only had it for three weeks or so and my first session at the driving range , I thought it would be very frustrating, but I had a blast. With that club for some reason I really feel natural, relaxed and confident, much more than with both irons and driver, and I can shoot a series of straight shots when I get into it. Compared to the wood, I still feel awkward with the driver even after a year of practicing.

[iacas]

I am afriad this is a semantic problem rahter than a golf problem. What does "same" mean and what does "different" mean?

I don't think it's just semantics. Things in the swing themselves are different. I was compiling a list earlier, but for example, here's one thing: with irons, PGA Tour players are almost all 85-95% force/pressure under their front foot at impact. With the driver, they're often well shy of that number. So that's a mechanical thing that makes the swing itself different and which goes beyond semantics.

Anyway, please don't let my quick aside derail the thread.

[Mr. Desmond]

I disagree that the swing is the same. The goals are different, after all, and there are subtle changes.

You are the expert.

Debated about using "similar", but thought for the purpose of a 36 capper, it was easier.

I need to stay out of swing threads....

[ryunin]

I don't think it's just semantics. Things in the swing themselves are different. I was compiling a list earlier, but for example, here's one thing: with irons, PGA Tour players are almost all 85-95% force/pressure under their front foot at impact. With the driver, they're often well shy of that number. So that's a mechanical thing that makes the swing itself different and which goes beyond semantics.

Anyway, please don't let my quick aside derail the thread.

iacas, you have helped a lot by mentioning the weight distribution with the driver compared to irons. As I have started to make sure I move the hips forward with the driver, I thought I had to transfer the weight to the front leg before the impact - which I didn't do until now and yesterday at the range I thought without that early weight transfer I cannot move the hips forward - I thought that early weight transfer helped me to move the hips forward, but now I see I can wait with that weight transfer a bit and still move the hips forward - one of the things my teacher stressed when teaching driver was - stay behind the ball, shoot from behind, which I was trying to do but recently forgot that moving the hips is necessary too...

as I already mentioned before, the teacher didn't consider my hips something to worry about which is a bit puzzling as he was pretty quiet / I mean he could have mentioned the hips, too, while I was banging one ball after another, he just told me two things, stay behind the ball and roll over the arms to prevent slice /oooooops I really don't want to start a flamewar about the rolling arms, and I actually believe that my arms will do something naturally when the other things work / just the weight transfer and staying behind the ball while rotating the hips I want to deal with now

[Mr. Desmond]

iacas, you have helped a lot by mentioning the weight distribution with the driver compared to irons. As I have started to make sure I move the hips forward with the driver, I thought I had to transfer the weight to the front leg before the impact - which I didn't do until now and yesterday at the range I thought without that early weight transfer I cannot move the hips forward - I thought that early weight transfer helped me to move the hips forward, but now I see I can wait with that weight transfer a bit and still move the hips forward - one of the things my teacher stressed when teaching driver was - stay behind the ball, shoot from behind, which I was trying to do but recently forgot that moving the hips is necessary too...

as I already mentioned before, the teacher didn't consider my hips something to worry about which is a bit puzzling as he was pretty quiet / I mean he could have mentioned the hips, too, while I was banging one ball after another, he just told me two things, stay behind the ball and roll over the arms to prevent slice /oooooops I really don't want to start a flamewar about the rolling arms, and I actually believe that my arms will do something naturally when the other things work / just the weight transfer and staying behind the ball while rotating the hips I want to deal with now

I don't think it's just semantics. Things in the swing themselves are different. I was compiling a list earlier, but for example, here's one thing: with irons, PGA Tour players are almost all 85-95% force/pressure under their front foot at impact. With the driver, they're often well shy of that number. So that's a mechanical thing that makes the swing itself different and which goes beyond semantics.

Anyway, please don't let my quick aside derail the thread.

You still make a weight shift before impact with the driver. My understanding as to Erik's statement is that it is NOT 95% at impact but "well shy of that number."

I do not think well shy means less than 50% to the front foot, but more likely 75% or so. That's a guess. Erik is the expert.

If I hang back with driver in terms of weight transfer of less than 75% (that's a guess), I am bound to get an awful low pull/hook.

[ryunin]

You still make a weight shift before impact with the driver. My understanding as to Erik's statement is that it is NOT 95% at impact but "well shy of that number."

I do not think well shy means less than 50% to the front foot, but more likely 75% or so. That's a guess. Erik is the expert.

If I hang back with driver in terms of weight transfer of less than 75% (that's a guess), I am bound to get an awful low pull/hook.

Thanks for this clarification.

[iacas]

Thanks for this clarification.

65-80% is common with the driver. Still forward, yes. Just not as much.

[nevets88]

My laymen's driver differences list: Much more SAT. More "separation" bet L and R of body. Can get away w/EE and sway more. Ball more forward so face more closed @ impact compared to irons. On DS head goes backwards more. For me, if I put an iron swing on a driver, more likely to hit a max height 10 foot shot. They are the same but not the same - iron v 1W swing. It's the same DNA, but w/slight variations.

[ryunin]

I am going to the practice range today, cant wait to see what happens if I truly add the hip rotation to the swing with the driver. Í  except a lot of slices but the swing should be more free and more speed should be possible without being forceful.

But I won't worry about slicing or pulling for now, if you agree, first I want to give the swing the damn hip rotation and freedom that it has lacked until today.

[Mr. Desmond]

My laymen's driver differences list:

Much more SAT.

More "separation" bet L and R of body.

Can get away w/EE and sway more.

Ball more forward so face more closed @ impact compared to irons.

On DS head goes backwards more.

For me, if I put an iron swing on a driver, more likely to hit a max height 10 foot shot.

They are the same but not the same - iron v 1W swing. It's the same DNA, but w/slight variations.

Yes, the address setup is very different for driver. Lead hip is "bumped" more forward at address, feet are farther apart.

You are hitting up on the ball in a position off the lead toe.

You don't have to transfer your weight as much forward as irons (Thx, Erik).

But is that not more the nature of the driver address and foot position, and the fact one wants to hit up on the ball with the tee, or the swing?

If I knew what the heck SAT (a test to enter college?)) and EE (early extension) is, maybe you've solved my driver issues ...

[ryunin]

I went to the driving range yestreday to experiment with my hips and driver and after several balls I realized something was wrong and went to this teacher who seems to be there all the time and has a lot of clients and what he told me is for a new thread, as he opened a completely new topic for discussion.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

My laymen's driver differences list:

Much more SAT.

More "separation" bet L and R of body.

Can get away w/EE and sway more.

Ball more forward so face more closed @ impact compared to irons.

On DS head goes backwards more.

For me, if I put an iron swing on a driver, more likely to hit a max height 10 foot shot.

They are the same but not the same - iron v 1W swing. It's the same DNA, but w/slight variations.

Yes, the address setup is very different for driver. Lead hip is "bumped" more forward at address, feet are farther apart.

You are hitting up on the ball in a position off the lead toe.

You don't have to transfer your weight as much forward as irons (Thx, Erik).

But is that not more the nature of the driver address and foot position, and the fact one wants to hit up on the ball with the tee, or the swing?

If I knew what the heck SAT (a test to enter college?)) and EE (early extension) is, maybe you've solved my driver issues ...

SAT is secondary axis tilt. Roughly, it's the upper body lean away from target from a face on view.

Unfortunately, imho, you can "know" everything about the swing, but if you lack athleticism/coordination/instinct, doesn't help one lick.

[Mr. Desmond]

SAT is secondary axis tilt. Roughly, it's the upper body lean away from target from a face on view.

Unfortunately, imho, you can "know" everything about the swing, but if you lack athleticism/coordination/instinct, doesn't help one lick.

Thx!

I've heard that term around here .... yes, that athletic thing gets in the way. It just means I need to stretch, lift weights, do balancing and jumping acts in my living room, and do all of my thinking before I address the ball.