Will the PGA Tour lose it's power to Asia?

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/84212/will-the-pga-tour-lose-its-power-to-asia/18#post_1194510"]   [QUOTE name="billchao" url="/t/84212/will-the-pga-tour-lose-its-power-to-asia/18#post_1194434"]   [QUOTE name="jcjim" url="/t/84212/will-the-pga-tour-lose-its-power-to-asia/0_30#post_1194428"]   Chinas main force is the fastest growing middle class in the world.. now there's 350 million who knows about 10/20 years from now....If you aren't familiar with the Asian obsession with golf then you might check it out...[/QUOTE] Interesting, I always thought golf was viewed as extravagant in China and those who play it there are either considered very wealthy or corrupt. Golf is not a sport they idolize and aspire to play. It kind of bothers me that you keep mentioning the "Asian" obsession with golf and specifically referencing China. Asia is a very large and diverse continent and China is just one part of it.[/QUOTE] True, but golf is popular in Japan and especially Korea. The middle class in HK is also getting obsessed with golf. It will eventually become popular in China as well, but as you mentioned there is a stigma associated with it. It could change with a single person who makes it seem more like a common person's sport. Prior to Arnold, golf was considered a rich man's sport in the North America as well. Before that, Harry Vardon made it popular for middle classes in the UK.[/QUOTE] Golf is very popular in Japan, but it's my understanding that it's also very expensive and very difficult to get a tee time unless you're a member of a course (and membership is out of reach to all but the very wealthy).  I remember reading an article in which they said that the majority of Japanese golfers mostly go to driving ranges (many of which are double and triple-deck) and rarely get to play an actual round on a course.  Maybe this has changed over time, but if not it could certainly be a limiting factor. According to Wikipedia, India has 196 golf courses in the entire country, about 50% of which are on military bases and only accessible to military and their families.  Of the remaining courses, some of them are Pitch and Putt courses due to the scarcity of available land to build full-sized facilities.  That, combined with the rampant poverty in India, hardly sounds like a hotbed of professional golf.

Yes, in all of Asia it's expensive at the moment. China is not middle class friendly either, but there are public courses now, which did not exist even a few years ago. I think it'll take an Arnold or Harry type to make it popular in China, of course, he or she would have to be Chinese. :-)

[billchao]

True, but golf is popular in Japan and especially Korea. The middle class in HK is also getting obsessed with golf. It will eventually become popular in China as well, but as you mentioned there is a stigma associated with it. It could change with a single person who makes it seem more like a common person's sport. Prior to Arnold, golf was considered a rich man's sport in the North America as well. Before that, Harry Vardon made it popular for middle classes in the UK.

Let's stop pretending that any country other than China has the power to rival the United States and Europe in golf... Japan and South Korea have had PGA Tour players (and LPGA Tour) for years, yet this hasn't created an influx of young talented Asian golfers that can rival Americans and Europeans. This is why I have an issue with @jcjim claiming Asia is obsessed with golf when it's not. Some countries in Asia are, yes, but others aren't. Hell, Y.E. Yang is major winner and comes from a blue collar background - just the type of man who demonstrates that golf is not nust for the wealthy - but nobody in China cares. Can China devote resources to growing the game and produce quality PGA Tour players? In time, absolutely, but first the state has to change its attitude towards golf. Even then, it will take a long time, and the game doesn't stop growing here in the meantime.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

True, but golf is popular in Japan and especially Korea. The middle class in HK is also getting obsessed with golf. It will eventually become popular in China as well, but as you mentioned there is a stigma associated with it. It could change with a single person who makes it seem more like a common person's sport.

Prior to Arnold, golf was considered a rich man's sport in the North America as well. Before that, Harry Vardon made it popular for middle classes in the UK.

Let's stop pretending that any country other than China has the power to rival the United States and Europe in golf... Japan and South Korea have had PGA Tour players (and LPGA Tour) for years, yet this hasn't created an influx of young talented Asian golfers that can rival Americans and Europeans.

This is why I have an issue with @jcjim claiming Asia is obsessed with golf when it's not. Some countries in Asia are, yes, but others aren't. Hell, Y.E. Yang is major winner and comes from a blue collar background - just the type of man who demonstrates that golf is not nust for the wealthy - but nobody in China cares.

Can China devote resources to growing the game and produce quality PGA Tour players? In time, absolutely, but first the state has to change its attitude towards golf. Even then, it will take a long time, and the game doesn't stop growing here in the meantime.

If there were a Chinese Y.E. Yang, golf would certainly pick up popularity in China.

I mostly agree with your assessment of the situation. I've played in China twice in the last year, and there are a lot more middle class players now than the first time I played there 8 years ago. It's picking up, but slowly.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

True, but golf is popular in Japan and especially Korea. The middle class in HK is also getting obsessed with golf. It will eventually become popular in China as well, but as you mentioned there is a stigma associated with it. It could change with a single person who makes it seem more like a common person's sport.

Prior to Arnold, golf was considered a rich man's sport in the North America as well. Before that, Harry Vardon made it popular for middle classes in the UK.

Let's stop pretending that any country other than China has the power to rival the United States and Europe in golf... Japan and South Korea have had PGA Tour players (and LPGA Tour) for years, yet this hasn't created an influx of young talented Asian golfers that can rival Americans and Europeans.

This is why I have an issue with @jcjim claiming Asia is obsessed with golf when it's not. Some countries in Asia are, yes, but others aren't. Hell, Y.E. Yang is major winner and comes from a blue collar background - just the type of man who demonstrates that golf is not nust for the wealthy - but nobody in China cares.

Can China devote resources to growing the game and produce quality PGA Tour players? In time, absolutely, but first the state has to change its attitude towards golf. Even then, it will take a long time, and the game doesn't stop growing here in the meantime.

Agreed, again.   Even in Korea, men's tour is not popular at all.  KLPGA has many more events, and bigger purse than KPGA.  Practically no one cares who wins a KPGA tournament.   Golf is still played by upper middle/rich class and/or business people who use golf to socialize and do business.    The only Asian country with potential to move the needle is China b/c of its population and growing middle/upper class.   But I don't see any sign of China and the rest of Asia wrestling control of PGA from the US.   If this was written about LPGA, discussion would have been more interesting, the voting result may be different.

[billchao]

If there were a Chinese Y.E. Yang, golf would certainly pick up popularity in China.

I mostly agree with your assessment of the situation. I've played in China twice in the last year, and there are a lot more middle class players now than the first time I played there 8 years ago. It's picking up, but slowly.

Still, China's best athletes are state sponsored, and the state is definitively against golf. Like I said, until that changes there will be no chance of golf in China catching the U.S. or Europe. You're going to get the odd prodigy that makes the PGA Tour here and there, but nothing in the numbers it will take the Asian Tour to overtake the PGA Tour.

[WUTiger]

The idea of the PGA Tour losing out to Asia doesn't take into account what's been going on since 1996, when an agreement set the stage for international-scope golf competitions at the professional level.

Quote:

At the 1996 Presidents Cup, golf's five world governing bodies--the European Tour, Japan Golf Tour Organization, PGA TOUR, PGA Tour of Australasia and Sunshine Tour--reached agreement on several key elements of professional golf designed to create new international events, beginning in 1999.

http://www.worldgolfchampionships.com/internationalfederation.html

The four resulting World Championship tournaments are: HBSC Champions, Caddilac Championship, Dell Match Play and the Bridgestone Invitational.

Two years ago, Matt Kuchar suggested that it was time for a global golf tour of some sort.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303653004579213973586529150

So, It appears the regional tours (such as PGA Tour) will continue, with some global tour events also. The PGA may consider changing its rules if better players float between the PGA and some sort of world tour events.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

If there were a Chinese Y.E. Yang, golf would certainly pick up popularity in China.

I mostly agree with your assessment of the situation. I've played in China twice in the last year, and there are a lot more middle class players now than the first time I played there 8 years ago. It's picking up, but slowly.

Still, China's best athletes are state sponsored, and the state is definitively against golf. Like I said, until that changes there will be no chance of golf in China catching the U.S. or Europe. You're going to get the odd prodigy that makes the PGA Tour here and there, but nothing in the numbers it will take the Asian Tour to overtake the PGA Tour.

And China's best athletes are not going to play golf.  They will be playing table tennis, soccer, and other sports.  Golf will be limited to kids from privilege families who can't or don't want to handle academic life.  The only thing that may change it would be golf's position in Olympics.   If China sees golf as strategic Olympic sports, who knows.  They may invest in it.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="billchao" url="/t/84212/will-the-pga-tour-lose-its-power-to-asia/36#post_1195095"]   [QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/84212/will-the-pga-tour-lose-its-power-to-asia/30_30#post_1194723"]   If there were a Chinese Y.E. Yang, golf would certainly pick up popularity in China. I mostly agree with your assessment of the situation. I've played in China twice in the last year, and there are a lot more middle class players now than the first time I played there 8 years ago. It's picking up, but slowly. [/QUOTE] Still, China's best athletes are state sponsored, and the state is definitively against golf. Like I said, until that changes there will be no chance of golf in China catching the U.S. or Europe. You're going to get the odd prodigy that makes the PGA Tour here and there, but nothing in the numbers it will take the Asian Tour to overtake the PGA Tour. [/QUOTE] And China's best athletes are not going to play golf.  They will be playing table tennis, soccer, and other sports.  Golf will be limited to kids from privilege families who can't or don't want to handle academic life.  The only thing that may change it would be golf's position in Olympics.   If China sees golf as strategic Olympic sports, who knows.  They may invest in it.

To be fair, none of best athletes of any country are going to be playing golf. . .until they retire or something.

[VOX]

I thought maybe there was an "L" missing from "PGA."

Plenty players of asian descent on the PGA tour as well but many are American born: Tiger, Kevin Na, Ricky Fowler. A number are from overseas: Jason Day, Vjay, KJ, Yang, Danny Lee.