I've had it with guns

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

You do realize that even 10, 100 deaths matter to those who lose their children to guns, right?

It's not a huge problem. It's way behind other things like, as I said, backyard swimming pools.

7 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

You do realize that suicide by guns is typically 100% successful as opposed to other means, right?

Did you skip over the point I made about those who choose to kill themselves with guns as being highly motivated? If a gun is not available they're highly motivated to kill themselves: studies point to the idea that they'd find another way to do it.

7 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

I will ignore your "ridiculous statement" comment.  I or others can say the same thing about your statement.   That kind of comment does not foster good discussion.

Your statement was ridiculous. "I've never needed a gun so nobody else should either." Ridiculous.

[jbishop15]

4 minutes ago, kpaulhus said:

 

If someone intends to commit the extremely selfish act of suicide then they have decided to end their life. Jumping off a bridge or taking pills or slitting your wrists only prolongs what they're intending to do. 

The kid that played o-line next to me in highschool football shot himself in the head at age 17. Nobody knows why. 

Im from Tampa where people constantly jump off the skyway bridge. When they hit the water, if they don't die instantly from impact, they drown since all of their bones are broken and likely can't swim. I think drowning in pain from just slamming into water from 50 stories up, sounds a lot worse than ending it with a gun. 

As someone who has attempted suicide on more than one occasion, I have to push back against this statement. It's not selfish when you think you're the only person holding the rest of people around you from being happy. It's not selfish when you feel like a burden. It's not ever selfish. 

[CoachB25]

chspeed, to be honest, I was too emotional and should apologize some for what I said.  I sat up night after night with my weapons waiting for a guy I never knew who somehow knew everything about me.  Where would I have been had he showed up and I was not armed?  Fortunately, he was way up north and the FBI had enough time to track him down before he did harm to anyone on his hit list. 

Again, I could tell you so many things that have happened to my family that a normal person would never believe.  To say that we now take care of our family and it would behoove people not to mess with us is an understatement. 

[rkim291968]

Just now, iacas said:

It's not a huge problem. It's way behind other things like, as I said, backyard swimming pools.

Did you skip over the point I made about those who choose to kill themselves with guns as being highly motivated? If a gun is not available they're highly motivated to kill themselves: studies point to the idea that they'd find another way to do it.

Your statement was ridiculous. "I've never needed a gun so nobody else should either." Ridiculous.

My point is that it is extremely rare for someone to run into such situation.  You have read too much into my statement or I wasn't explicit enough.

[jbishop15]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

It's not a huge problem. It's way behind other things like, as I said, backyard swimming pools.

Did you skip over the point I made about those who choose to kill themselves with guns as being highly motivated? If a gun is not available they're highly motivated to kill themselves: studies point to the idea that they'd find another way to do it.

Your statement was ridiculous. "I've never needed a gun so nobody else should either." Ridiculous.

This is pretty cold. We could cut that number to a fraction by enacting stricter gun laws. 10,000 lives lost to gun violence is not a small problem. 

[iacas]

Just now, rkim291968 said:

My point is that it is extremely rare for someone to run into such situation. You have read too much into my statement or I wasn't explicit enough.

It's rare, and yet… when you're talking about the lives of your family, I take more comfort in being prepared than in comforting myself by how unlucky I was to be at the wrong end of a "rare" event.

[chspeed]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

It's not a huge problem. It's way behind other things like, as I said, backyard swimming pools.

Car accidents, unintentional accidents, suicide rates, etc. are probably much harder to reduce than these. In your own LSW book, you point out that we should focus on ways to improve that are likely to make the biggest difference.

Edited December 3, 2015 by chspeed

[iacas]

Just now, chspeed said:

Car accidents, unintentional accidents, suicide rates, etc. are probably much harder to reduce than these. In your own LWS book, you point out that we should focus on ways to improve that are likely to make the biggest difference.

Okay. Let's ban backyard swimming pools.

[chspeed]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

It's rare, and yet… when you're talking about the lives of your family, I take more comfort in being prepared than in comforting myself by how unlucky I was to be at the wrong end of a "rare" event.

Where's the coldly rational Iacas? Even if there's a higher statistical chance of a member of your family getting hurt from your own weapon, or from a stranger's weapon that could have been outlawed?

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Okay. Let's ban backyard swimming pools.

Consider it done. I live in NYC ;)

[iacas]

Just now, chspeed said:

Where's the coldly rational Iacas? Even if there's a higher statistical chance of a member of your family getting hurt from your own weapon, or from a stranger's weapon that could have been outlawed?

I am coldly rational on this. There's roughly a 0% chance of anyone in my family being "hurt from my own weapon" and a still very small but large enough chance of someone else intending to do my family harm.

My family is educated, and my guns are not easily accessible by them.

[kpaulhus]

1 minute ago, chspeed said:

Where's the coldly rational Iacas? Even if there's a higher statistical chance of a member of your family getting hurt from your own weapon, or from a stranger's weapon that could have been outlawed?

Consider it done. I live in NYC ;)

Members of the family are educated about guns like responsible gun owners are supposed to do. My wife knows how to handle it. 

[iacas]

Plus, I have a .22 slab-sided Ruger that's just plain fun to shoot at targets.

[rkim291968]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

It's rare, and yet… when you're talking about the lives of your family, I take more comfort in being prepared than in comforting myself by how unlucky I was to be at the wrong end of a "rare" event.

It's all comes down to percentages.   I had a guy come to my house with a knife.  His intention was to threaten me, not necessarily kill me.   If I had a gun and with my temper at the time, I would have shot him.  Instead, I disarmed him (right across his chin, held him down until he realized his mistake).   If he or I had a gun, one of us would have been dead.   Growing up in tough part of LA, I had a few fights with gang members and/or juvees.  Again, I was lucky that no one had a gun in our fights.  Otherwise, someone would have been shot dead.  Ask Zimmermen if he really could have kill the black kid if he didn't have a gun. 

[kpaulhus]

16 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

As someone who has attempted suicide on more than one occasion, I have to push back against this statement. It's not selfish when you think you're the only person holding the rest of people around you from being happy. It's not selfish when you feel like a burden. It's not ever selfish. 

I'm sorry, Hunter. God forbid it ever gets that bad you can always call me. You're not a burden. 

[jbishop15]

1 minute ago, kpaulhus said:

I'm sorry, Hunter. God forbid it ever gets that bad you can always call me. You're not a burden. 

No worries, man. I know you're a good dude. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

It's all comes down to percentages. I had a guy come to my house with a knife. His intention was to threaten me, not necessarily kill me. If I had a gun and with my temper at the time, I would have shot him.

And in virtually every state you'd have been justified in using deadly force.

Also, you have no way of truly knowing what his "intention" was, or if they'd have remained the same if any number of things happened.

2 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

If he or I had a gun, one of us would have been dead.

Your experience is yours and yours alone. It does not mean that just because don't think you've ever needed a gun for self protection, nobody does.

[esayers]

i own guns , and am for gun ownership. the idea that more laws will stop violence is just wrong . for the people who truly believe this please look at Chicago USA. as they have some of the stricter laws related to gun ownership. yet shootings are rampant there at this time . also when you compare gun deaths in the USA please be aware that statistic includes suicides as well  as people who protected themselves or there families and were justified in doing so. 

[JonMA1]

24 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

As for needing gun to protect their family members, I lived for 53 years now and never encountered an occasion that I would have to use a gun to protect loved ones.   However, I ran into many instances where I would have used a gun needlessly if I had one nearby.  

I'm about the same age as you @rkim291968 and have had instances where I opened up the gun safe due to a legitimate threat at my home. Fortunately, it didn't escalate.

FYI, it takes the police 20 minutes to get to my home. Sorry, but that just won't do.

Taking someone else's life is not something I'd ever want to live with, whether it was legally justified or not. Yes, there are some over-zealous vigilantes who live for the chance to be the hero. But most gun owners I know are not this way. A confrontation where a gun is pulled is an absolute last resort that most folks hope will never happen.

I understand the sentiments of those who want to see gun violence end. I don't mind some restriction. But there are evil people in this country and until those who want to outlaw firearms can guarantee the safety of my family from them, I'd prefer an option where I at least have some control.

And for the record, every firearm I own was purchased for hunting or target shooting (bolt action or single-shot), and I don't own a handgun. I just don't want that right taken away just because some folks think it will make a difference.