I've had it with guns

[CoachB25]

rkim, and in a similar situation, I got stuck.  Thought the kid was cool, at least with me, and out of nowhere I was bleeding all over the place.  Had I had a gun he would have been dead and he would have deserved to be dead.  Instead, I grabbed a coke bottle and beat him.  I've never seen him since.  His intend was to stab and rob me.  I have the right to defend myself and the police agreed with that.  rkim, what would you do to protect your family?  You think you're a bad enough dude to take care of business?  I'm a bad dude and I don't mind saying so and yet, I've found out just how much it matters being a bad dude when the other guy has a weapon.  I've often said that the one thing I know about my wife more than anything else is that she knows that she is safe with me around. 

[rkim291968]

Well, for the heck of it, I am gonna tie this to my golf game.

If I am struggling with 3w, it's better that I take it out of my bag.  If I have it in my bag, I will end up using it which will hurt my game.   To me, having a gun in my possession is like keeping 3w in my bag.  If it is there, I will end up using it.

[Phil McGleno]

1 minute ago, rkim291968 said:

Well, for the heck of it, I am gonna tie this to my golf game.

If I am struggling with 3w, it's better that I take it out of my bag.  If I have it in my bag, I will end up using it which will hurt my game.   To me, having a gun in my possession is like keeping 3w in my bag.  If it is there, I will end up using it.

Why not just have the self-control to not hit the 3wood?

I have guns in my home.-About 15. I think 11 of them are property of my wife.

[CoachB25]

2 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm about the same age as you @rkim291968 and have had instances where I opened up the gun safe due to a legitimate threat at my home. Fortunately, it didn't escalate.

FYI, it takes the police 20 minutes to get to my home. Sorry, but that just won't do.

Taking someone else's life is not something I'd ever want to live with, whether it was legally justified or not. Yes, there are some over-zealous vigilantes who live for the chance to be the hero. But most gun owners I know are not this way. A confrontation where a gun is pulled is an absolute last resort that most folks hope will never happen.

I understand the sentiments of those who want to see gun violence end. I don't mind some restriction. But there are evil people in this country and until those who want to outlaw firearms can guarantee the safety of my family from them, I'd prefer an option where I at least have some control.

And for the record, every firearm I own was purchased for hunting or target shooting (bolt action or single-shot), and I don't own a handgun. I just don't want that right taken away just because some folks think it will make a difference.

I enjoyed reading your thoughts here!  I hope to never again fire my weapons in anger but have done so in anger.  It is important to note that a vast majority of firearms owners will never fire their weapons in anger. 

[rkim291968]

Just now, Phil McGleno said:

Why not just have the self-control to not hit the 3wood?

My point is that some people don't have that self control.  I for one don't trust myself with a gun.   If you have the self control, that's good.  More power to you.

[kpaulhus]

3 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

My point is that some people don't have that self control.  I for one don't trust myself with a gun.   If you have the self control, that's good.  More power to you.

Which is why I am fine with making it harder to get a gun. Make a process that will weed out those with no self control or doubt with trusting themself. 

 

 

[rkim291968]

1 minute ago, kpaulhus said:

Which is why I am fine with making it harder to get a gun. Make a process that will weed out those with no self control or doubt with trusting themself. 

 

 

Absolutely agree.

[CR McDivot]

2 hours ago, chspeed said:

I'll start this with a statement that I am by no means a liberal or democrat. I consider myself moderate, and independent on both social and fiscal issues. I realize the world is a complicated place, and that there are no easy answers to most questions that stump our society...

You've had it with guns...

No problem, don't have any. Declare your opposition by posting a sign on your house, yourself, and your loved ones "Gun free zone!".

NOTE: Most mass shootings occur in places well known as a "Gun Free Zone".

If you are extremely lucky, one of us who take our responsibility to protect the innocent seriously will be near enough to drop the inevitable bad guy who seizes the opportunity you have so graciously given him, before he inflicts too much mayhem.

But probably not!

Not that we don't care, but the odds that a real man will be near, are unfortunately not good.

Yep, it's your job!

Edited December 3, 2015 by CR McDivot

[jbishop15]

5 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

You've had it with guns...

No problem, don't have any. Declare your opposition by posting a sign on your house, yourself, and your loved ones "Gun free zone!".

NOTE: Most mass shootings occur in places well known as a "Gun Free Zone".

If you are extremely lucky, one of us who take our responsibility to protect the innocent seriously will be near enough to drop the inevitable bad guy who seizes the opportunity you have so graciously given him, before he inflicts too much mayhem.

But probably not!

Not that we don't care, but the odds that a real man will be near, are unfortunately not good.

Yep, it's your job!

NOTE: Mass shootings do not occur in the UK where gun ownership is massively restricted. 

NOTE: Mass shootings do not occur in Australia where gun ownership is massively restricted. 

[CR McDivot]

Just now, jbishop15 said:

NOTE: Mass shootings do not occur in the UK where gun ownership is massively restricted. 

NOTE: Mass shootings do not occur in Australia where gun ownership is massively restricted. 

Try Australian or British confiscation tactics here and you will get the response given at Lexington and Concord!

MOLON LABE!

[Rainmaker]

Well . .I'm not political and don't know much about gun control laws or even gun crime in the US outside of what I see on the news but, since this IS the internet, I feel obligated to give you my opinion.  

I personally don't like guns and don't own one.  I do live in TX, though, so I know that every single other person has one . .even babies.  I honestly don't feel that a rush to stringent gun control is the answer.  Maybe if we could go back in time and un-invent the gun, then we could end gun violence.  

I would be in favor of certain laws becoming more strict in terms of accountability.  For example, if you fail to store your gun properly and it is used in a crime or involved in an accident . .there should be some more accountability for people who want to own firearms.  

 

  

[JonMA1]

26 minutes ago, CoachB25 said:

It is important to note that a vast majority of firearms owners will never fire their weapons in anger. 

I agree. Just as an example, I live in a rural area where almost everyone has a firearm in their home. I've been in arguments or disagreements with my neighbors over the years. Guess what... nobody pulled a gun.

It's very tragic when someone is killed just because a gun was nearby. But as others have noted, there are a lot of tragedies that occur in our lives. I don't know what the answer is, but I just don't believe outlawing guns is going to make this a better world.

2 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I would be in favor of certain laws becoming more strict in terms of accountability.  For example, if you fail to store your gun properly and it is used in a crime or involved in an accident . .there should be some more accountability for people who want to own firearms.  

I'm ok with this.

[jbishop15]

2 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

Try Australian or British confiscation tactics here and you will get the response given at Lexington and Concord!

MOLON LABE!

Australia didn't confiscate; they used a massive government buyback program. The UK did make their citizens turn in their weapons, however. 

Are you going to address the fact that in countries with little gun ownership that there are no mass shootings? 

 

[saevel25]

8 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

NOTE: Mass shootings do not occur in the UK where gun ownership is massively restricted. 

NOTE: Mass shootings do not occur in Australia where gun ownership is massively restricted. 

Then you have Norway, Finland, and Switzerland who had more mass shootings per 100,000 people than the Unites states. All of which have much more restrictive gun laws, and far less gun ownership. 

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/06/348197-obama-said-mass-shootings-dont-happen-in-advanced-countries-like-in-us-one-chart-proves-him-wrong/

and 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

not to say that the USA wouldn't benefit from stricter gun laws, but the argument that more gun laws equal less mass shootings is false. Our country is basically 48 countries in one country (continental). Looking at rates is the best way to compare.

 

 

[CR McDivot]

12 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I agree. Just as an example, I live in a rural area where almost everyone has a firearm in their home. I've been in arguments or disagreements with my neighbors over the years. Guess what... nobody pulled a gun.

It's very tragic when someone is killed just because a gun was nearby. But as others have noted, there are a lot of tragedies that occur in our lives. I don't know what the answer is, but I just don't believe outlawing guns is going to make this a better world.

I'm ok with this.

 

10 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

Australia didn't confiscate; they used a massive government buyback program. The UK did make their citizens turn in their weapons, however. 

Are you going to address the fact that in countries with little gun ownership that there are no mass shootings? 

 

Paris.

Chechnya.

Mexico.

Indonesia.

Any number of South American and African countries.

16 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

...I would be in favor of certain laws becoming more strict in terms of accountability.  For example, if you fail to store your gun properly and it is used in a crime or involved in an accident . .there should be some more accountability for people who want to own firearms.

 

Those laws are already on the books.

As for the "Buy Back", what happened when the citizen refused to sell?

Yep, if found - confiscation and criminal charges.

Edited December 3, 2015 by CR McDivot

[jbishop15]

2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Then you have Norway, Finland, and Switzerland who had more mass shootings per 100,000 people than the Unites states. All of which have much more restrictive gun laws, and far less gun ownership. 

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/06/348197-obama-said-mass-shootings-dont-happen-in-advanced-countries-like-in-us-one-chart-proves-him-wrong/

and 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

not to say that the USA wouldn't benefit from stricter gun laws, but the argument that more gun laws equal less mass shootings is false. Our country is basically 48 countries in one country (continental). Looking at rates is the best way to compare.

 

 

Independent Journal Review is a heavily-conservative slanted website. I trust their numbers about as much as I would trust MSNBC. 

And as for the second link: When dealing with numbers of deaths, the US isn't at the top. But when it comes to frequency of shootings, which is mostly what we're (or at least I) talking about, the US is at the top. An interesting article.

5 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

 

Paris.

Chechnya.

Mexico.

Indonesia.

Any number of South American and African countries.

Paris is the victim of international terrorism, which is not the same kind of violence that we're talking about. And regardless: they still have many, many fewer than the US. 

I'm not going to go down the list and go through every country's gun laws, because that would take all night. But I can safely tell you that there is a big difference when discussing third, second, and first world gun ownership, and the type of governments in place in those places. 

But here's just a few:

You can apply for a gun at 12 in Kenya. 

In Mexico, it is a constitutional right to own a firearm, though it is true that their laws are more strict than ours. 

You can own a gun in Indonesia, you just have to have permit for it.

[CR McDivot]

Free men have arms; slaves do not.

William Blackstone

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

-- James Madison, The Federalist Papers

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

"One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

-- Constitutional scholar and Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, 1840

Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest.

-- From the Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775.

"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives [only] moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks."

-- Thomas Jefferson, writing to his teenaged nephew.

We might forgive Jefferson here, he probably knew nothing of golf!

Edited December 3, 2015 by CR McDivot

[jbishop15]

6 minutes ago, CR McDivot said:

Free men have arms; slaves do not.

William Blackstone

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

-- James Madison, The Federalist Papers

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

"One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

-- Constitutional scholar and Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, 1840

Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest.

-- From the Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775.

"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives [only] moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks."

-- Thomas Jefferson, writing to his teenaged nephew.

We might forgive Jefferson here, he probably knew nothing of golf!

So, your argument is quotes from the 18th and 19th centuries?