NL going to add DH?

[newtogolf]

14 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

This is true too.  They have nothing at all to do between the time they set their lineup and usually around the 5th or 6th inning.  Then it's just 90 minutes worth of which lefty should I put against which righty, etc, until the closer is ready.   (Unless you're one of those control enthusiasts like Mike Scioscia who calls all the pitches all game)

As you can see, I'm not strongly attached to either idea anymore, but if I got to make the decision I'd still stick with 9 players on each team all playing offense AND defense.

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I also appreciate that adding a DH to the NL creates jobs, whereas removing the DH from the AL eliminates them - they're being good American politicians if they go this way. 

Roster sizes are the same in both leagues so imo what the DH does is create a single higher salary job for one position (who isn't good enough to play defense in MLB) and leaves less money for the rest of the bench players.  In NL, pinch hitting and running is more integral to the game and valued more.

All that said I won't watch any more or less baseball if the rule is changed.

[Fourputt]

On 1/23/2016 at 0:06 PM, iacas said:

I hope the DH never comes to the NL. I still wish it'd go away in the AL.

 

14 hours ago, InTheRough said:

Agreed.  

I hate the DH with an absolute passion.  It takes all strategy out of the game and just adds another one of these stupid hitters that can't do anything except hit a HR, strikeout, or walk.  Adding a DH also removes the need for depth in a team....having the DH means a manager can stick with their starters all the time instead of needing a couple of solid batters on the bench that can come into the game to pinch hit when the game is on the line.  The DH just cheapens the game.

Agree with both.  A baseball player should be able to play both offense and defense.  Pitchers who don't hit and hitters who don't field just make the game boring.  

I think that there is a misconception that more hitting equals more viewer interest.  I see it as just the opposite.  Far more interest in watching the chess game between managers when they have to start juggling players - making the decision to keep the pitcher in vs. trying to get an RBI pinch hit in a critical situation in the 5th or 6th inning.  The DH eliminates that important piece of strategy necessary for making the game interesting for me.  I will often watch a random NL game, never AL.  I just can't get into it.  

As bad as the Rockies are, I watch because I still enjoy the details of the game.  If they go DH, I'll find something else to do.

[Golfingdad]

3 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

 

Agree with both.  A baseball player should be able to play both offense and defense.  Pitchers who don't hit and hitters who don't field just make the game boring.  

I think that there is a misconception that more hitting equals more viewer interest.  I see it as just the opposite.  Far more interest in watching the chess game between managers when they have to start juggling players - making the decision to keep the pitcher in vs. trying to get an RBI pinch hit in a critical situation in the 5th or 6th inning.  The DH eliminates that important piece of strategy necessary for making the game interesting for me.  I will often watch a random NL game, never AL.  I just can't get into it.  

As bad as the Rockies are, I watch because I still enjoy the details of the game.  If they go DH, I'll find something else to do.

Generally agree except with the caveat that the interest in the chess game goes out the window when the game slows to a crawl in the 7th inning because they're changing pitchers every other batter.

I think I'd lean towards liking whichever rule sped the game up. :)

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

Generally agree except with the caveat that the interest in the chess game goes out the window when the game slows to a crawl in the 7th inning because they're changing pitchers every other batter.

I think I'd lean towards liking whichever rule sped the game up. :)

Yea they need to fix that for a relief pitchers It's getting absurd the amount of times managers will switch up pitchers or hitters. If a guy is batting 0.285 versus righties and only 0.245 versus lefties. You are only gaining a 4% increase. Come on. If he faced 50 pitches he only would get two more hits versus righties. 

 

[Golfingdad]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Roster sizes are the same in both leagues so imo what the DH does is create a single higher salary job for one position (who isn't good enough to play defense in MLB) and leaves less money for the rest of the bench players.  In NL, pinch hitting and running is more integral to the game and valued more.

All that said I won't watch any more or less baseball if the rule is changed.

LOL ... I didn't really think that one through too well, did I?

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

Generally agree except with the caveat that the interest in the chess game goes out the window when the game slows to a crawl in the 7th inning because they're changing pitchers every other batter.

I think I'd lean towards liking whichever rule sped the game up. :)

It's not all about speed.  Baseball will never be a fast game.  Baseball is a game of patience, and to be a fan, you need some of that quality too.  When I watch baseball, I usually have a book or magazine too, and mostly keep up with the game, but get some quality reading in too.

14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Yea they need to fix that for a relief pitchers It's getting absurd the amount of times managers will switch up pitchers or hitters. If a guy is batting 0.285 versus righties and only 0.245 versus lefties. You are only gaining a 4% increase. Come on. If he faced 50 pitches he only would get two more hits versus righties. 

 

But those 2 hits could be the difference between winning 2 games and losing 2 games.  That's what I find interesting about baseball.  I'm not a stat freak like many diehard fans, but statistics drive many of the managerial decisions in the game.  The best managers are those who can blend the stats with their gut feeling in making such a move.  Go with the guy who's hot right now and to hell with the stats.

[Golfingdad]

5 hours ago, Fourputt said:

It's not all about speed.  Baseball will never be a fast game.  Baseball is a game of patience, and to be a fan, you need some of that quality too.

I agree, however, it's slowed down quite a bit in the last few decades with the evolution of the myriad of different relief specialists.  I don't want to eliminate pitching changes or strategy but I think that there is a middle ground where they can meet.  As an example, why does the pitcher need 8, hell ANY, warm up throws when he comes to the mound after having spent the last 3,6,12 minutes getting warm in the bullpen? The whole pitching change process can be streamlined without taking away from the game and saving us all some precious minutes.

On the other hand, maybe it would be interesting if there were rules added to eliminate or alter pitching changes in some way.  Just off the top of my head (without thinking it through) ... what if they limited coaches to 2 or 3 mid-inning pitching changes per game?  Would that take away from managerial strategy, or would that ADD to it?  On top of that, either give them 3 warm up pitches or a 30-45 second time limit or something, and that's gotta save some time.

I'm not opposed to anything.  I'd just prefer if 9 inning games could usually take less than 3 hours.

[InTheRough]

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

I agree, however, it's slowed down quite a bit in the last few decades with the evolution of the myriad of different relief specialists.  I don't want to eliminate pitching changes or strategy but I think that there is a middle ground where they can meet.  As an example, why does the pitcher need 8, hell ANY, warm up throws when he comes to the mound after having spent the last 3,6,12 minutes getting warm in the bullpen? The whole pitching change process can be streamlined without taking away from the game and saving us all some precious minutes.

On the other hand, maybe it would be interesting if there were rules added to eliminate or alter pitching changes in some way.  Just off the top of my head (without thinking it through) ... what if they limited coaches to 2 or 3 mid-inning pitching changes per game?  Would that take away from managerial strategy, or would that ADD to it?  On top of that, either give them 3 warm up pitches or a 30-45 second time limit or something, and that's gotta save some time.

I'm not opposed to anything.  I'd just prefer if 9 inning games could usually take less than 3 hours.

Adding a DH wouldn't really change all that much in regard to pitching changes at the end of a game. AL managers still switch pitchers based off of who is hitting to get the Righty-Righty or Lefty-Lefty match-up.  Pitcher/hitter match-ups don't really change if there is a DH or not.

You're probably right that relievers don't need 8 pitches--when I pitched I only ever used 6--but they absolutely need some warm up pitches.  Mound size, height, slope...etc. is supposed to be the same for every mound but it rarely is(I was a pitcher in college and have thrown off quite a lot of mounds--obviously never an MLB stadium but I have pitched in some minor league/independent league stadiums).  Every mound is a little different shape and every pitcher digs their own holes on the mound throughout the game so you need a couple of pitches to acclimate yourself to it.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, InTheRough said:

Adding a DH wouldn't really change all that much in regard to pitching changes at the end of a game. AL managers still switch pitchers based off of who is hitting to get the Righty-Righty or Lefty-Lefty match-up.  Pitcher/hitter match-ups don't really change if there is a DH or not.

You're probably right that relievers don't need 8 pitches--when I pitched I only ever used 6--but they absolutely need some warm up pitches.  Mound size, height, slope...etc. is supposed to be the same for every mound but it rarely is(I was a pitcher in college and have thrown off quite a lot of mounds--obviously never an MLB stadium but I have pitched in some minor league/independent league stadiums).  Every mound is a little different shape and every pitcher digs their own holes on the mound throughout the game so you need a couple of pitches to acclimate yourself to it.

Yeah you're right ... My pitching change rant was OT. :P

I agree with your last sentence tho ... "A couple of pitches" is what they need :)

[natureboy]

11 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Generally agree except with the caveat that the interest in the chess game goes out the window when the game slows to a crawl in the 7th inning because they're changing pitchers every other batter.

I think I'd lean towards liking whichever rule sped the game up. :)

With the extra hitter likely fatiguing pitchers a bit quicker in the AL that league isn't lacking in multiple relief switching.