Hybrid Iron dilemma

[RussUK]

Can you guys help me with the following?

I have decided to enjoy golf more by hitting clubs I am confident with (i.e. hybrids) and starting my irons with the one I am confident with (7 iron). 

So as the 6 is my nemesis club I have decided to custom build a replacement hybrid iron through Nordica Golf as an experiment as I can get one made for between £33 and £42 depending on which one I go for. 

But here’s the dilemma. My current irons are Di9 that have a 6 iron loft of 28.5 degrees. The 7 iron is 32 and my 5 hybrid is 24 (ish). The 2 options im looking at are:

Powerplay select 5000 (actually down as a 5 iron replacement) at 27 degrees

And the Powerplay system Q 6 iron replacement (with adjustable weights) at 29 degrees

In your humble and often expert opinions what would be the better loft?. I am told different things, a hybrid is higher launching so a lower loft would be needed then someone else says a hybrid will go further so i higher loft .

I do find my hybris sooooo easy to hit and my 22 degree will go out to 200 yds. 

Any advice would be appreciated as always

[SavvySwede]

4 minutes ago, RussUK said:

Can you guys help me with the following?

 

I have decided to enjoy golf more by hitting clubs I am confident with (i.e. hybrids) and starting my irons with the one I am confident with (7 iron). 

So as the 6 is my nemesis club I have decided to custom build a replacement hybrid iron through Nordica Golf as an experiment as I can get one made for between £33 and £42 depending on which one I go for. 

But here’s the dilemma. My current irons are Di9 that have a 6 iron loft of 28.5 degrees. The 7 iron is 32 and my 5 hybrid is 24 (ish). The 2 options im looking at are:

 

Powerplay select 5000 (actually down as a 5 iron replacement) at 27 degrees

 

And the Powerplay system Q 6 iron replacement (with adjustable weights) at 29 degrees

 

In your humble and often expert opinions what would be the better loft?. I am told different things, a hybrid is higher launching so a lower loft would be needed then someone else says a hybrid will go further so i higher loft .

 

I do find my hybris sooooo easy to hit and my 22 degree will go out to 200 yds. 

Any advice would be appreciated as always

 

1. I'd go with the 29* built to a longer length than the 6 iron.
2. Figure out how far I hit it.
3. If it doesn't fit the gap I'd keep cutting off 1/4" sections from the butt of the club until it produced the proper distance.

Just remember to put the grips on with compressed air so you don't have to waste a bunch of them finding the proper length.

[RussUK]

24 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

1. I'd go with the 29* built to a longer length than the 6 iron.
2. Figure out how far I hit it.
3. If it doesn't fit the gap I'd keep cutting off 1/4" sections from the butt of the club until it produced the proper distance.

Just remember to put the grips on with compressed air so you don't have to waste a bunch of them finding the proper length.

Thanks, in the Select 5000 range the 6 iron is 30 degree, would you say 6 degree is too big a gap between the 5 and the 6?

[pganapathy]

Very simple.  Check what distance your 5 hybrid is hitting.  Check what distance your 7 iron is hitting.  Take the distance between those two and get the hybrid that hits it to that distance.  Loft is immaterial provided you can consistently hit that yardage with the club   

[RussUK]

1 minute ago, pganapathy said:

Very simple.  Check what distance your 5 hybrid is hitting.  Check what distance your 7 iron is hitting.  Take the distance between those two and get the hybrid that hits it to that distance.  Loft is immaterial provided you can consistently hit that yardage with the club   

The problem with that is very few (if any) demo clubs in the lofts i am looking at building are available near me so while its very sound advice if buying "off the shelf" as im having it built by Nordica Golf online makes it a non option im afraid,

One option would be take the 27 degree and grip down if needed (not ideal) or go with the 30 degree (1.5 degree more than the Di9 6 iron) if i decided the Q system is a bit too pricey

[SavvySwede]

53 minutes ago, RussUK said:

Thanks, in the Select 5000 range the 6 iron is 30 degree, would you say 6 degree is too big a gap between the 5 and the 6?

The loft number shouldn't really matter if you can get it to fit the gap between your 7i and 5h. You could get the 27* to fit the gap as well. I just went with the 29 because I thought the adjustable weights might be a nice option.

[pganapathy]

@RussUK, if you have no idea how you are hitting them and also whether the clubs fit you, how do you buy.  I would say at least hit the clubs before you buy them.  If not, ensure you have a buyer if the clubs turn out to not suit your game

[RussUK]

12 hours ago, pganapathy said:

@RussUK, if you have no idea how you are hitting them and also whether the clubs fit you, how do you buy.  I would say at least hit the clubs before you buy them.  If not, ensure you have a buyer if the clubs turn out to not suit your game

Good news is ive just checked and you get a 30 day trial period.....happy days!

14 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

The loft number shouldn't really matter if you can get it to fit the gap between your 7i and 5h. You could get the 27* to fit the gap as well. I just went with the 29 because I thought the adjustable weights might be a nice option.

I think all us blokes are the same, if its shiny and you can tinker with it then thats the one to go for 

Leaning towards the 27 as the style suits my eye more, its a little "cleaner". I must me old fashioned, but like you say adjustability is a nice option........damn i hate choices lol 

 

[Mike Boatright]

Iv'e been through this dilemma and trust me no hybrid will replace your 6 iron it will need to be 36 degrees and at loft it kinda becomes bad for ground impact. There is one option however and that's the ping g 30/ 30 deg hybrid in a blue shaft. It's about as close as your going to get to a 6 iron replacement. Iv'e bought power play they are terrible basically a mini driver no grooves no spin the shots won't hold the green but it will fly! The ping is a great club find it used because they are costly.

[pganapathy]

@Mike Boatright, for me the key is not the loft of the club, but the distance you hit it.  Depending on your set configuration a club stamped 6 can have upto maybe 10* of variation in loft.  Jacking up lofts is the favourite way of manufacturers to say their clubs have gotten longer.  All they are really doing is making their old 5 iron their new 6 iron.  Eventually if we compare it with the iron sets made in the 80's we are probably looking at 2 to 3 clubs worth of difference in loft.

The PING are always good clubs but buying second hand ensure you hit it first and then only buy because if you buy it and then start playing around to get it to your specs, you might as well get a new one done correctly

[Mike Boatright]

1 minute ago, pganapathy said:

@Mike Boatright, for me the key is not the loft of the club, but the distance you hit it.  Depending on your set configuration a club stamped 6 can have upto maybe 10* of variation in loft.  Jacking up lofts is the favourite way of manufacturers to say their clubs have gotten longer.  All they are really doing is making their old 5 iron their new 6 iron.  Eventually if we compare it with the iron sets made in the 80's we are probably looking at 2 to 3 clubs worth of difference in loft.

The PING are always good clubs but buying second hand ensure you hit it first and then only buy because if you buy it and then start playing around to get it to your specs, you might as well get a new one done correctly

Not really dude it's pretty easy get a reg flex 30 deg hybrid ping g 30 it goes about 6 iron distance and very high if you swing to hard, If you want get a s flex or a r flex and check the lie angle if it's to upright as they often are get it trimmed 0.25 inches and slap a new grip on same goes for the s flex if you want something more on the x flex range. More than likely it's good to go off the rack.

[pganapathy]

@Mike Boatright, more than anything else that depends on your 6 iron.  I look at a set my father bought in 1986, a set I bought in 2000 and a modern set purchased in 2015 and there is definitely a difference in the loft of a 6 iron.  I can hit the modern 6 iron a lot longer, mainly because the loft is jacked up.  Yes, shafts and modern face materials and technology help but when I see a 5* difference in loft, it is not rocket science to figure out why I hit the modern 6 iron longer than the 1986 6-iron

[Mike Boatright]

1 minute ago, pganapathy said:

@Mike Boatright, more than anything else that depends on your 6 iron.  I look at a set my father bought in 1986, a set I bought in 2000 and a modern set purchased in 2015 and there is definitely a difference in the loft of a 6 iron.  I can hit the modern 6 iron a lot longer, mainly because the loft is jacked up.  Yes, shafts and modern face materials and technology help but when I see a 5* difference in loft, it is not rocket science to figure out why I hit the modern 6 iron longer than the 1986 6-iron

Oh well yeah that's a different topic it also depends on the shaft a 5 iron in 1986 had say 34 degrees of loft higher cg but a 37.5 inch steel shaft. A modern blade may have a 37 or 38 inch shaft but 28-30 deg of loft with a but lower cg in some models. The game improvement clubs your talking about have 38.25 inch graphite shafts designed to launch high with heads designed to shoot high and low loft say 25 degrees to lower the spin stamped 6. It's all feel but essentially all clubs can go about the same yardage but with varying spin and in a 6 iron you need spin to hold the green.

[boogielicious]

28 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

@Mike Boatright, for me the key is not the loft of the club, but the distance you hit it.  Depending on your set configuration a club stamped 6 can have upto maybe 10* of variation in loft.  Jacking up lofts is the favourite way of manufacturers to say their clubs have gotten longer.  All they are really doing is making their old 5 iron their new 6 iron.  Eventually if we compare it with the iron sets made in the 80's we are probably looking at 2 to 3 clubs worth of difference in loft.

The PING are always good clubs but buying second hand ensure you hit it first and then only buy because if you buy it and then start playing around to get it to your specs, you might as well get a new one done correctly

You seem to have a misconception about loft and cub design. Loft frankly is not very important.  It is misconception that companies lower the club loft to get more distance through lower launch and more roll out. If a head has a lower center of gravity and launches higher, companies lower the head loft to get the same optimum launch angle. More distance comes from faster ball speeds, which will give more carry.

The reason a 2016 6 iron goes farther is because they have been able to use high tech tools to optimize ball speed and launch conditions with head and shaft design. 

[pganapathy]

@Mike Boatright, which is why I say the easier answer is to see what distance your 5 hits and your 7 hits and then find a hybrid that hits it to the distance in between.  Simple enough

@boogielicious, if loft is not that critical, then why is it sets with the Single Length concept, where the only variation is loft have differences in yardage between the clubs.  Obviously loft matters.  Admittedly, modern clubs are are better suited (especially with fitting) to a golfer's swing with the variety of shafts and club head designs, but take two identical shaft setups and take a modern club head and one say 30 years old, with a say 5* difference in loft and the old head will definitely be shorter, even if you account for the yardage difference thanks to better technology.  It has to be, otherwise do we really need sets with a say 4 to 5* difference in loft between each club.

[RussUK]

Been emailing NoridicaGolf with my requirements and they have recomended the Acer XDS react in 29 degrees as this is the closed to my current 6 iron (28.5) but thanks to higher MOI should go a touch further but are easier to "get up in the air". Now the XDS react hybrids are actually avaulable from 1 iron all the way to SW should you so wish. They do look a lot better that the powerplays (which reminded me of an old RAM FX utility i have), plus ive heard much better things about Acer components than powerplay (Their XF irons got the golf digest value award and are very callaway-ish).

Never had a club custom built before so feel like a kid in a sweet shop!

[boogielicious]

37 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

@Mike Boatright, which is why I say the easier answer is to see what distance your 5 hits and your 7 hits and then find a hybrid that hits it to the distance in between.  Simple enough

@boogielicious, if loft is not that critical, then why is it sets with the Single Length concept, where the only variation is loft have differences in yardage between the clubs.  Obviously loft matters.  Admittedly, modern clubs are are better suited (especially with fitting) to a golfer's swing with the variety of shafts and club head designs, but take two identical shaft setups and take a modern club head and one say 30 years old, with a say 5* difference in loft and the old head will definitely be shorter, even if you account for the yardage difference thanks to better technology.  It has to be, otherwise do we really need sets with a say 4 to 5* difference in loft between each club.

Loft only matters with relation to launch angle. The launch angle and spin are the important factors not the measured loft. You are getting hung up on an old way to look at club design. 30 years ago, most heads were blades. They had a high center of gravity and launched low. So the lofts were developed to optimize distance gaps with the launch conditions. They probably used an average swing speed as well, say driver a 100 mph, even higher for Pros.

With the advent of cavity backs and newer high COR GI head designs, the center of gravity was lowered. COR also increased. So if the head was set at the same measured loft, the ball would launch too high with too much spin. Add to that GI and SGI irons are geared toward slower swing speeds. So to optimize distance, the lofts are adjusted to get the optimum launch angle for a particular head.

For single length irons, the head speed would be somewhat more constant throughout the set (not including head weight differences). So the same GI heads would have to have different loft gaps in the set to optimize launch conditions and distance gaps.

For standard iron lengths, the same applies but the head speed would vary more with longer irons being faster. The lofts are adjusted accordingly.

This is projectile physics but you have to add spin into the equations. If you put identical 6 and 5 iron blade heads on the same length shaft, the 5 would launch lower and roll out more maybe getting more distance on firm fairways. Increase the 5 iron shaft length and the faster swing speed would increase ball speed and max height of the shot. You get more carry.

Now take the same 6 iron blade head and a new high COR GI head with identical loft on the same length shaft. The GI head would launch the ball much higher and possibly shorter. To get more carry, they lower the loft to optimize launch and carry distance. The term "optimize" is important. They test and model the head to get the most carry out of it. This is key. It is computer modeling that determines the optimum launch angle and therefore the head loft.

This is not just a marketing ploy to fool people into thinking roll out on low shots equals distance. It is carry distance. Customers would learn soon enough when they try to carry 160 yard shots over water onto a green. Lower launch would equal "splash". They would hate the clubs and not buy the brand again. That would be bad business.

[Tee2Trees]

I humbly suggest buying the Adams A3OS 6 hybrid-iron, at 28 degrees and 38" length.  they made a ton of these as demo clubs so you can still find them new on the 'bay for $15-$20.