Golfing under the influence, should this be moderated?

[jkelley9]

Here's how I break my answer down:

Three groups of folks:

1. pros, 2. any amateur tournament players, 3. play for fun / club folks

Pros - obviously not. They're operating at a high level so obviously performance enhancers and stuff is a no go. And since we already get the "it's not a real sport" thing, any player that drinks a beer before the round (for example) would not be a good message for anybody

The other two groups? I could care less. Nor should anybody else. They either got it, or they don't. They're better than you, or their not. They can either keep up their game that way... or they cant. It's either anecdotal, or it's not. Golf is NOT a sport where any performance enhancers would really show a measurable, repeatable offset to their handicap, in my opinion. If anything it would make them WORSE.

[phillyk]

I think anyone can keep a handicap so long as they understand that if they decide to play in an event that uses such an index, that they must be honest with themselves as they play.  Drunk, high, or not, if you want to keep an index to see how you are faring versus your buddies, feel free to do so.  But this is also why the USGA has the peer reviewed system in place now, so that you can't just post your really bad rounds.  It allows the chairs to take a more active role in regulating the honesty of their players.

Off topic part: I just want to point out the black and white of the "mental" issue.  My former coworker was trying out for a golf team.  Day 1, shot even par.  Day 2, morning before try-outs, finds out that he had a very close friend die, requests that he try out another day.  Coach denies the request, and he shoots an 86 and doesn't make the team.  A week later, he comes out with his buddies and posts the course record.  Mental game won't improve your game, but I think it MAY allow you to play closer to your current potential.  And the opposite is true, imagine playing golf when a family member died. I don't think anyone could focus well enough to make it through a round of golf and you'll most likely shoot a lot higher score than normal.  Are we going to ignore that your mentally hurt and just say well your golf swing just sucks?  No.  Once again I'm not advocating that having a strong mental game will help lower your handicap.  But, dramatic events or nerves that cause mental depression can really effect your physical ability to perform well.  I'd agree with Lihu above that your overall average will be about the same, though.

[Valleygolfer]

31 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 

Was your assertion was that if you have a better mental game then you will play better?

So, drunk or not, as long as you can make the same swing then you will play roughly the same on average. So, golf, drink, post and enjoy!

 

No and yes, better than average, not amazing or professional. A good mental state lessens mistakes. A poor mental state generally results in less than average results.

Alcohol is only known for impairment however it is a depressant and could decrease tension just enough with one drink.

[Valleygolfer]

6 minutes ago, jkelley9 said:

 Golf is NOT a sport where any performance enhancers would really show a measurable, repeatable offset to their handicap, in my opinion. If anything it would make them WORSE.

This being said, why ban any other substances in the PGA? Apparently it is against the rules to use something that supposedly helps keep you younger or playing longer at a high level. Doping drugs would not make you a better player...

[Psyber]

2 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

No and yes, better than average, not amazing or professional. A good mental state lessens mistakes. A poor mental state generally results in less than average results.

Alcohol is only known for impairment however it is a depressant and could decrease tension just enough with one drink.

I know I play much better with a beer or two because I am prone to getting a bit of anxiety playing around strangers. When I play with my uncle I don't drink anything and my nerves feel no different than when I am sitting on my couch. Definitely helps tension.

[pumaAttack]

On 3/20/2016 at 10:40 AM, iacas said:

If we ranked "the mental game" as an SV skill, it would probably be an SV①. It doesn't account for many strokes saved, AND, everyone is different - some people are better golfers when pissed, some go to shit. Some days you're better ticked, others not so much. Or distracted. Or whatever. There's not a high correlation.

And of course Bob Rotella pushes the importance of the mental game. He makes his living from it. At the end of the day, as I've said a few times, I don't care if Rory is kinda drunk, high, fighting with his girlfriend AND parents, and has a heckler in the audience - he's gonna shoot a much lower score than you even if Dr. Bob is your caddie and you have worked with him exclusively for a year prior.

That's all. It's not hugely important. Probably isn't even moderately important. It's likely of lesser importance. It slightly increases the chances of hitting a better shot.

Yeah, that's not really true. People believe they're important, so they exist.

We break that out as "GamePlanning." It's simply a decision, it's not "the mental game" in our opinion.

He referenced the thread because it over-states how much weight a number of people falsely attribute to the mental game.

 

Where did you get your psychiatrist degree?  

You always seem to under value the "mental" game and hell even discredit it, but I don't know your background in this matter.  Saying "take confidence in this..." does not equal a mental game.

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

Where did you get your psychiatrist degree?  

You always seem to under value the "mental" game and hell even discredit it, but I don't know your background in this matter.  Saying "take confidence in this..." does not equal a mental game.

I don't know what he knows about psychiatry, but he know a lot about golf.

Unless you can successfully correlate mental game to golf in a quantitative manner, it will be difficult to make any statements regarding mental game.

[pumaAttack]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I don't know what he knows about psychiatry, but he know a lot about golf.

Unless you can successfully relate golf and mental game in a quantitative manner, it will be difficult to make any statements regarding mental game.

 

So if I only go to a psychiatrist I can get a better golf game?

Just because he knows a lot about the golf swing, that doesn't make him an expert at the mental game.  Or the human psyche.  His discredit of the mental game is without merit unless he does in fact have a degree in some sort of mental health practice.  

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by pumaAttack

[Valleygolfer]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I don't know what he knows about psychiatry, but he know a lot about golf.

Unless you can successfully correlate mental game to golf in a quantitative manner, it will be difficult to make any statements regarding mental game.

Why don't you prove that golf; sports; etc do not have any mental properties involved?

Edited March 21, 2016 by Valleygolfer

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, pumaAttack said:

So if I go to a psychiatrist I can get a better golf game?

Just because he knows a lot about the golf swing, that doesn't make him an expert at the mental game.  Or the human psyche.  His discredit of the mental game is without merit unless he does in fact have a degree in some sort of mental health practice.  

Not sure what you are stating?

All I was indicating was that there is no quantitative argument for mental game, but plenty of hard evidence for better swing=>better game.

[pumaAttack]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Not sure what you are stating?

All I was indicating was that there is no quantitative argument for mental game, but plenty of hard evidence for better swing=>better game.

I am saying that the mental game does play a huge role and just because he knows the golf swing really well, that does not qualify him to discredit the mental game or undervalue its importance to CERTAIN golfers.  

Nobody has the same psyche so his universal approach to the mental game falls short.

Hell, just look at the final rounds in majors and how many TALENTED golfers fall apart.  The mental game makes a huge difference.

Edited March 21, 2016 by pumaAttack

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

I am saying that the mental game does play a huge role and just because he knows the golf swing really well, that does not qualify him to discredit the mental game or undervalue its importance to CERTAIN golfers.  

Nobody has the same psyche so his universal approach to the mental game falls short.

If you were the most confident man in the world, but could not swing a club very well, you would not play well, at all.

If we took a pessimistic 10 handicap, and played him against the super confident beginner, who would you think will win?

If mental game played such a huge role, it might be a close match. I know it won't, though.

[Valleygolfer]

http://www.golfwrx.com/365622/rory-mcilroy-blames-mental-mistakes-attitude-for-high-scores/

Rory apparently just needs to work on his swing......freaking amateur...thinking his brain is getting in the way...

Probably needs a few beers to set him straight...

Edited March 21, 2016 by Valleygolfer

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

http://www.golfwrx.com/365622/rory-mcilroy-blames-mental-mistakes-attitude-for-high-scores/

Rory apparently just needs to work on his swing......freaking amateur...thinking his brain is getting in the way...

Probably needs a few beers to set him straight...

Right, it doesn't play no role, just not a big one.

[pumaAttack]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

If you were the most confident man in the world, but could not swing a club very well, you would not play well, at all.

If we took a pessimistic 10 handicap, and played him against the super confident beginner, who would you think will win?

 

You are taking a black and white approach.  It's not 1 extreme versus the other.

Try a 10 handicap with anxiety, doubts and lack of focus vs. a 10 handicap with a clear focus. Now which one do you take?  Which one will perform better under a stressful shot?

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

 

You are taking a black and white approach.  It's not 1 extreme versus the other.

Try a 10 handicap with anxiety, doubts and lack of focus vs. a 10 handicap with a clear focus. Now which one do you take?  Which one will perform better under a stressful shot?

Okay, there is a small advantage to the confident player.

No one is saying it plays no role, just a lot smaller one than you seem to be giving it credit.

Actually, if the less confident one has better swing fundamentals he might still have the edge to the confident one. If the confident one depends upon everything coming together perfectly to shoot his handicap, while the less confident one strikes the ball well, but has a crappy short game he might still play just as well.

[pumaAttack]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

Okay, there is a small advantage to the confident player.

No one is saying it plays no role, just a lot smaller one than you seem to be giving it credit.

You are only equating confidence to the mental game.  There is SO MUCH MORE at play.  

The mental game doesn't begin and end at confidence.  It's the ability focus, to not be distracted, to move on from bad shots, to trust your abilities, to have confidence in your shot selection, to remain calm, etc. etc. etc.

 

[newtogolf]

If I had to pick a great golf swing or great mental game I'd take the swing every time.  That said, I think some are under valuing the mental aspect of sports, especially golf.  

The yips is mental, guys like Daly self destructing is mental, Keegan Bradley's cha cha routine is mental and so are the other guys who get stuck standing over the ball.  Kevin Chappell stated this week the change he's made to his mental approach has been key to his improvements.

I know from my own personal experiences that just standing up at the tee box with strangers watching will impact my performance.  

Maybe you reach a certain point in golf where you've conquered most of the mental demons and it's just about refining the swing but I still believe that for a majority of us, mental state has a significant impact on performance.