The handicap system

[paininthenuts]

Probably one of the most controversial subjects in golf. Before I go any further, I think the principle of the handicap system is brilliant, an the idea of an inexperienced high handicapper having the opportunity of beating a top top player is great. 

I have only been playing 7 months, and after the first four months or so was given an official handicap of 28. In all honesty  this was a handicap I couldn't get near at the time, but was the highest available in the UK.  I now play to it all the time, and some days I absolutely smash it. I asked my club pro, who is also the handicap secretary, if she could reduce it, because I win most of the friendly  games, and my golfing companions are getting understandably fed up. She informed me that whilst some clubs will accept  cards from friendly games, she won't. Although I hate the formality of competitions, I have consented to play in them until my handicap is sorted. This is the crazy bit. We have a weekly competition played from the white tees, on a full Stableford basis. I won today's competition easily, putting in a score of 32 points. On gross I beet 2x18 handicappers, and 1x17 handicapper.  Because we have to play off of the white tees my point score has suffered, albeit convincingly higher than the other golfers. Just to get my handicap reduced by one shot I would have to play like an absolute pro. Of course, between us we can reduce my handicap for friendly games, but that makes an absolute mockery of the handicap system. I don't pretend to know the answer, but what we have is obviously wrong. 

[Fourputt]

The US system works a lot differently.  For one thing, we do get to return non competition scores.  In 2 or 3 rounds of returning low scores your index would drop noticeably.  If there was enough disparity, it could drop a full stroke or even two.  Since we use only the best 10 of your  last 20 returned scores, in 10 rounds of lower scores you would have set a completely new index that would stay in that range until your next improvement phase.

As far as casual games, I've always felt that part of the fun was negotiating strokes while waiting to tee off.  Even in a group where everyone has legitimate handicaps, we would still dicker over a stroke or two.  Just part of the game.

[Lihu]

10 minutes ago, paininthenuts said:

Probably one of the most controversial subjects in golf. Before I go any further, I think the principle of the handicap system is brilliant, an the idea of an inexperienced high handicapper having the opportunity of beating a top top player is great. 

I have only been playing 7 months, and after the first four months or so was given an official handicap of 28. In all honesty  this was a handicap I couldn't get near at the time, but was the highest available in the UK.  I now play to it all the time, and some days I absolutely smash it. I asked my club pro, who is also the handicap secretary, if she could reduce it, because I win most of the friendly  games, and my golfing companions are getting understandably fed up. She informed me that whilst some clubs will accept  cards from friendly games, she won't. Although I hate the formality of competitions, I have consented to play in them until my handicap is sorted. This is the crazy bit. We have a weekly competition played from the white tees, on a full Stableford basis. I won today's competition easily, putting in a score of 32 points. On gross I beet 2x18 handicappers, and 1x17 handicapper.  Because we have to play off of the white tees my point score has suffered, albeit convincingly higher than the other golfers. Just to get my handicap reduced by one shot I would have to play like an absolute pro. Of course, between us we can reduce my handicap for friendly games, but that makes an absolute mockery of the handicap system. I don't pretend to know the answer, but what we have is obviously wrong. 

Just play the tournaments, and enjoy the benefits of being able to beat the 18 and 17 handicappers

I am preparing to do some tournaments, and post only tournament rounds in the future.

One reason why SCGA (or any other sanctioned tournament association) is a good idea is that you learn to play exactly by the rules. I'm sure I break many rules at present, and that makes what I do not really golf. I've been told that many if not all of the SCGA events have officials at every single hole. They insure that you make proper drops and all the other stuff needed to play proper golf. Without playing strictly by the rules you can't really have a proper handicap.

[DaveP043]

16 minutes ago, paininthenuts said:

Just to get my handicap reduced by one shot I would have to play like an absolute pro.

This isn't the way I read the CONGU rules.  At your handicap level, for each stroke that your Nett Differential (Score less CSS) is better than your handicap, your Exact Handicap is reduced by 0.4 strokes.   See Page 44 of the online manual for more details.

 

11 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I am preparing to do some tournaments, and post only tournament rounds in the future.

In the US, you need to post ALL of your eligible scores.  Tournament scores must be posted as Tournament Scores, and there's a separate calculation involved in evaluating tournament scoring as compared with the overall bulk of your scores.

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

In the US, you need to post ALL of your eligible scores.  Tournament scores must be posted as Tournament Scores, and there's a separate calculation involved in evaluating tournament scoring as compared with the overall bulk of your scores.

I wasn't too clear, but the plan is to only play tournaments, and have a practice round or two in between. The rest would be range time. We have tournaments once a week.

[DaveP043]

Gotcha, and you're either playing your practice rounds on your own, or playing two balls or something that's not within the rules.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Gotcha, and you're either playing your practice rounds on your own, or playing two balls or something that's not within the rules.

or something.

I get to play goofy golf on those rounds too!

 

[DaveP043]

Just be a little careful.  If you're intentionally doing stuff, like playing two balls or quitting after playing 6 holes, specifically to avoid having to post scores, your local Handicap Committee could, and perhaps should, have a problem with that.

[Lihu]

56 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Just be a little careful.  If you're intentionally doing stuff, like playing two balls or quitting after playing 6 holes, specifically to avoid having to post scores, your local Handicap Committee could, and perhaps should, have a problem with that.

Yeah, that's actually one reason I want to score only tournament rounds for a while. This way I'll learn and retain the rules much faster.

Also, as far as ai understand practice rounds need to be declared befor teeing off.

It seems like more rounds will be counted in CONGU type systems in the near future?

[DeadMan]

 @Lihu - I'd be careful with playing a lot of rounds that you don't post, even if they are technically practice rounds. If people see you playing a bunch without posting, they'll (rightfully, in my opinion) give you side eye for doing it. And if you're improving fast enough that you win a bunch of tournaments, that will only increase the amount of side eye. I know that my club's handicap chair warned us about doing too many practice rounds right when I joined the club.

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, DeadMan said:

 @Lihu - I'd be careful with playing a lot of rounds that you don't post, even if they are technically practice rounds. If people see you playing a bunch without posting, they'll (rightfully, in my opinion) give you side eye for doing it. And if you're improving fast enough that you win a bunch of tournaments, that will only increase the amount of side eye. I know that my club's handicap chair warned us about doing too many practice rounds right when I joined the club.

Thanks for the warning.

I'm getting connected to more members of my club and am going to play more rounds with them so they can verify my playing level and proper flight. I just met one and he's a great playing partner. In general they know I suck, except when I make birdie attempts a couple times a round. Then they see me double the next hole or more.

[Fourputt]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

Thanks for the warning.

I'm getting connected to more members of my club and am going to play more rounds with them so they can verify my playing level and proper flight. I just met one and he's a great playing partner. In general they know I suck, except when I make birdie attempts a couple times a round. Then they see me double the next hole or more.

9.3 isn't sucking, that's pretty competitive in most golfing circles.  

[DrvFrShow]

10 hours ago, DeadMan said:

 @Lihu - I'd be careful with playing a lot of rounds that you don't post, even if they are technically practice rounds. If people see you playing a bunch without posting, they'll (rightfully, in my opinion) give you side eye for doing it. And if you're improving fast enough that you win a bunch of tournaments, that will only increase the amount of side eye. I know that my club's handicap chair warned us about doing too many practice rounds right when I joined the club.

Solo rounds can't be posted this season. Play as many of these as you want. It's against the rules to post them. Only rounds played with other people count. 

I didn't renew my GHIN this season so it's all practice. Next season if I renew, I'll start with my 20.4 regardless of what I'm playing at. Not that I'm playing in tournaments anyway. They cost more to play in than the pay out when you factor in hotel and stuff like that unless you want to fight 3 hrs traffic before your round just getting to the course.

[Pete]

16 hours ago, paininthenuts said:

Probably one of the most controversial subjects in golf. Before I go any further, I think the principle of the handicap system is brilliant, an the idea of an inexperienced high handicapper having the opportunity of beating a top top player is great. 

I have only been playing 7 months, and after the first four months or so was given an official handicap of 28. In all honesty  this was a handicap I couldn't get near at the time, but was the highest available in the UK.  I now play to it all the time, and some days I absolutely smash it. I asked my club pro, who is also the handicap secretary, if she could reduce it, because I win most of the friendly  games, and my golfing companions are getting understandably fed up. She informed me that whilst some clubs will accept  cards from friendly games, she won't. Although I hate the formality of competitions, I have consented to play in them until my handicap is sorted. This is the crazy bit. We have a weekly competition played from the white tees, on a full Stableford basis. I won today's competition easily, putting in a score of 32 points. On gross I beet 2x18 handicappers, and 1x17 handicapper.  Because we have to play off of the white tees my point score has suffered, albeit convincingly higher than the other golfers. Just to get my handicap reduced by one shot I would have to play like an absolute pro. Of course, between us we can reduce my handicap for friendly games, but that makes an absolute mockery of the handicap system. I don't pretend to know the answer, but what we have is obviously wrong. 

Firstly, I commend you for wanting to play off of a lower handicap when you are winning competitions with your current hcp. As you probably know, in the UK it is more common to hear people celebrate that their handicap has increased, giving them more chance of winning, which really winds me up.

If 32 points is winning a club competition, unfortunately it looks like your home course has a SSS that is too low. I used to be a member of a club like that and scoring over 30 points often got you into the top 10, but also got you +0.1 added to your handicap. All else being equal, this should not be the case.

The best thing you can do is submit supplementary rounds to your handicap secretary. You can play up to 10 supplementary rounds per year. Arrange some rounds with other members and declare the round as supplementary (in the pro shop probably) before you play. The card counts for handicap purposes (SSS is used instead of a calculated CSS). This is not something your club can choose to do or not, anyone can do it at any affiliated club.

The latest rules on when and how you can submit them are here: http://www.englandgolf.org/library-media%5Cdocuments%5CChanges%20To%20CONGU%202014(2).pdf

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

Solo rounds can't be posted this season. Play as many of these as you want. It's against the rules to post them. Only rounds played with other people count. 

I didn't renew my GHIN this season so it's all practice. Next season if I renew, I'll start with my 20.4 regardless of what I'm playing at. Not that I'm playing in tournaments anyway. They cost more to play in than the pay out when you factor in hotel and stuff like that unless you want to fight 3 hrs traffic before your round just getting to the course.

From what I gather, it doesn't matter if you hook up with complete strangers and still be able to post?

We have no issues with "finding" partners, in fact, you have no choice. It would have to be raining pretty hard, high winds or something to play a solo round.

[Lihu]

7 hours ago, Fourputt said:

9.3 isn't sucking, that's pretty competitive in most golfing circles.  

Thanks, but it's drifting towards 10 or 11, as expected. That HC is based upon one outstanding round I had on the short course, and I've been playing pretty badly lately. My driving is crappy with my current driver so I'm looking to get properly fit next month. 

The short course is easier for me now because I tee off with my 3W most of the time. I think I tag my driver some of the time by mistake, but I use 3W on the 6000 yard course. Probably should fix that some time in GG.

[paininthenuts]

19 hours ago, Fourputt said:

The US system works a lot differently.  For one thing, we do get to return non competition scores.  In 2 or 3 rounds of returning low scores your index would drop noticeably.  If there was enough disparity, it could drop a full stroke or even two.  Since we use only the best 10 of your  last 20 returned scores, in 10 rounds of lower scores you would have set a completely new index that would stay in that range until your next improvement phase.

As far as casual games, I've always felt that part of the fun was negotiating strokes while waiting to tee off.  Even in a group where everyone has legitimate handicaps, we would still dicker over a stroke or two.  Just part of the game.

I have to disagree with your last paragraph. If we have to play around with our handicaps then surely the official handicap system must be wrong. 

I know little about the handicap system, so I have to listen to my pro/handicap secretary. We play a competition every Thursday, and I have been told that after three weeks my handicap will be reviewed. I was told that I would have to hit an average of 38 Stableford points a game to drop .4 of a point on my handicap. With all due respect how many people ever average 38 points over 3 games ? 

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, paininthenuts said:

I have to disagree with your last paragraph. If we have to play around with our handicaps then surely the official handicap system must be wrong. 

I know little about the handicap system, so I have to listen to my pro/handicap secretary. We play a competition every Thursday, and I have been told that after three weeks my handicap will be reviewed. I was told that I would have to hit an average of 38 Stableford points a game to drop .4 of a point on my handicap. With all due respect how many people ever average 38 points over 3 games ? 

People who actually play 8 strokes better than their handicaps?