Orlando Gay Night Club Shooting

[xcott]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

We're in more in danger of police and security guards than criminals? That's a new one. . .your areguments are getting stranger and stranger.

Ironic since a trained armed security guard is the perpetrator of this crime we're discussing. 

[Lihu]

Just now, xcott said:

Ironic since a trained armed security guard is the perpetrator of this crime we're discussing. 

Yes, I agree that this guard and probably others have perpetrated different gun related crimes.

Again, it's not the fact that they have the guns, it's the training combined with mental illness that makes them lethal.

[jgreen85]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

Well, you hypothesized making guns completely illegal but criminals would likely still have them.

How would making them illegal work anyway? They would have to be banned worldwide. What's the punishment for owning one? Death? Because adding a year or two to an robbery sentence isn't going to be very persuasive.

Criminals who could afford them would potentially still have them. They wouldn't be flashing these things around b/c the moment someone sees it that person is placed under arrest. Simple possession gets you locked up. The world I propose suggests guns are such a valuable/rare commodity that its only used by someone who can afford to lose something so valuable. Your common street criminal does not fit that profile.

Off topic, but if we legalize drugs in addition to banning guns, the # of guns in circulation would drop significantly more. Reason being the profit motive for having a gun without the drug trade could never justify the price.

[xcott]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Again, it's not the fact that they have the guns, it's the training combined with mental illness that makes them lethal.

A highly trained mentally ill person with a nerf ball isn't quite as dangerous. So the gun is kind of an important part.

[newtogolf]

4 minutes ago, jgreen85 said:

Criminals who could afford them would potentially still have them. They wouldn't be flashing these things around b/c the moment someone sees it that person is placed under arrest. Simple possession gets you locked up. The world I propose suggests guns are such a valuable/rare commodity that its only used by someone who can afford to lose something so valuable. Your common street criminal does not fit that profile.

Off topic, but if we legalize drugs in addition to banning guns, the # of guns in circulation would drop significantly more. Reason being the profit motive for having a gun without the drug trade could never justify the price.

Never going to happen, there are too many guns in the country.  Short of door to door search and seizure, which would likely result in a revolution, you're not going to get rid of guns in this country.  

How about automatic death penalty for anyone committing a crime with a gun?  

[Lihu]

Just now, jgreen85 said:

Criminals who could afford them would potentially still have them. They wouldn't be flashing these things around b/c the moment someone sees it that person is placed under arrest. Simple possession gets you locked up. The world I propose suggests guns are such a valuable/rare commodity that its only used by someone who can afford to lose something so valuable. Your common street criminal does not fit that profile.

Off topic, but if we legalize drugs in addition to banning guns, the # of guns in circulation would drop significantly more. Reason being the profit motive for having a gun without the drug trade could never justify the price.

Unfortunately, it's not possible to bring us back into the 15th century again.

Guns and ammo can be produced cheaply with relatively low tech tools.

They have even produced a 3D printed gun. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mhl45ediih/the-liberator/

4 minutes ago, xcott said:

A highly trained mentally ill person with a nerf ball isn't quite as dangerous. So the gun is kind of an important part.

He'd find a way to procure an effective weapon, somehow. If there is knowledge and the will, there will likely be a solution.

[xcott]

Too many cars can go over 55, speed limits should be eliminated. 

The fact that it's difficult should not mean that it shouldn't be attempted. 

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Never going to happen, there are too many guns in the country.  Short of door to door search and seizure, which would likely result in a revolution, you're not going to get rid of guns in this country.  

True.

 

Quote

How about automatic death penalty for anyone committing a crime with a gun?  

That's harsh! What if you're J-walking or something like that and just happened to have a gun in your possession?

 

4 minutes ago, xcott said:

Too many cars can go over 55, speed limits should be eliminated. 

The fact that it's difficult should not mean that it shouldn't be attempted. 

Top speed limits are 70 in CA, 75 in AZ and 80 in NV,UT

[jgreen85]

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Never going to happen, there are too many guns in the country.  Short of door to door search and seizure, which would likely result in a revolution, you're not going to get rid of guns in this country.  

How about automatic death penalty for anyone committing a crime with a gun?  

There doesn't have to be a revolution. Just saying, there doesn't have to be. People can just say "yea, I'm comfortable with this change in the reading of the Constitution."

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Unfortunately, it's not possible to bring us back into the 15th century again.

Guns and ammo can be produced cheaply with relatively low tech tools.

They have even produced a 3D printed gun. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mhl45ediih/the-liberator/

He'd find a way to procure an effective weapon, somehow. If there is knowledge and the will, there will likely be a solution.

Yep, 50 dead and 50 wounded w/ the "liberator." come on, let's be serious. 

Best part about that awesome video I linked: gun guy saying "woopedie doo" - at least he was honest. Just be honest, these mass shootings and all of the other gun deaths are outweighed by the benefits society receives from lihu's ability to own a gun. 

[Lihu]

 

 

6 minutes ago, jgreen85 said:

Yep, 50 dead and 50 wounded w/ the "liberator." come on, let's be serious. 

Best part about that awesome video I linked: gun guy saying "woopedie doo" - at least he was honest. Just be honest, these mass shootings and all of the other gun deaths are outweighed by the benefits society receives from lihu's ability to own a gun. 

 

 

[jgreen85]

5 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 

did you skip the last 10/15 seconds? no gun consists of entirely 3d printed parts. Did you hear that part? The majority of that is not 3d printed. I wonder the cost/space required to set up an operation to put these together? And again, once said operation is discovered, it's shut down. People thrown in jail. I never said guns would be unavailable, I said EXPENSIVE. 

I can see joe schmoe putting together the liberator. It's going to take a fairly large operation to put together this 600 round monster.

Edited June 16, 2016 by jgreen85
additional detail

[xcott]

People can make bombs at home, it's still illegal. They didn't legalize bomb making just because it could be done at home. Whether or not it can be done at home isn't the litmus test for a law.  I can easily stab someone in my home while they are asleep, that doesn't mean it should be legal. 

 

Why should we make murdering people in their sleep in your home illegal, it's so easy how can we stop it!?!?

[Lihu]

22 minutes ago, jgreen85 said:

did you skip the last 10/15 seconds? no gun consists of entirely 3d printed parts. Did you hear that part? The majority of that is not 3d printed. I wonder the cost/space required to set up an operation to put these together? And again, once said operation is discovered, it's shut down. People thrown in jail. I never said guns would be unavailable, I said EXPENSIVE. 

Not that much.

Yeah, a 3D printed steel barrel is not going to happen any time soon and definitely not printed from ABS

You need to make one out of SS stock or similar, or just buy one for $100 or a really good one for $300. You'd need the upper and block. The AR15 trigger group can be purchased pretty cheaply. Here's how to make it almost fully auto [Mod jamo edit: link removed]

So, the AR15 is the "lego" of rifles. Lots of kits you can spend anywhere from $300 to $2900 for a decent rifle. The $300 will probably not be that decent a rifle, but would likely be fine for under 100 yards with maybe 2-3 MOA.

I could put up enough links to build a complete AR15 from scratch, but that's a lot of work. Plus, this is not a gun forum.

[jgreen85]

14 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Not that much.

Yeah, a 3D printed steel barrel is not going to be printed from ABS

You need to make one out of SS stock or similar, or just buy one for $100 or a really good one for $300. You'd need the upper and block. The AR15 trigger group can be purchased pretty cheaply. Here's how to make it almost fully auto [Mod jamo edit: link removed]

So, the AR15 is the "lego" of rifles. Lots of kits you can spend anywhere from $300 to $2900 for a decent rifle.

I could put up enough links to build a complete AR15 from scratch, but that's a lot of work. Plus, this is not a gun forum.

none of these kits would be legal, so they're irrelevant. A metal 3D printer according to wikipedia is $500k to $1million. Pretty sure that's a product that could easily be tracked/traced and ensured that it goes to responsible people. Saying you can build one part out of plastic. Downloading gun designs would raise the ire of the FBI as well, just like searching for bomb making instructions. I think your research is simply furthering my argument. $300 to $2900 for this when it's 100% legal. Illegal items cost more! A lot more!

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, jgreen85 said:

none of these kits would be legal, so they're irrelevant. A metal 3D printer according to wikipedia is $500k to $1million. Pretty sure that's a product that could easily be tracked/traced and ensured that it goes to responsible people. Saying you can build one part out of plastic. Downloading gun designs would raise the ire of the FBI as well, just like searching for bomb making instructions. I think your research is simply furthering my argument. $300 to $2900 for this when it's 100% legal. Illegal items cost more! A lot more!

It wouldn't work anyway. That technology is very coarse. Maybe in another 5 years?

Better to turn one on the biggest Grizzly lathe and get/make some tools from raw stock from Mcmaster or the like. It will likely shoot like an AK-47 or worse. But from close range you might be able to make one for under $10,000 which includes about $9500 in tools and equipment. The raw materials to make the gun are really cheap. Possibly less than $100 in small quantities.

Maybe less: http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-X-36-Combination-Gunsmithing-Lathe-Mill/G0791?utm_campaign=zPage

What I am saying is that you can practically build one from scratch if it is illegal and no one will know. You don't need to purchase the Grizzly Gun Smith lathe, it can be another one with similar features. The rest of the parts can be milled on Grizzly End Mills. Build your own setup tools.

Harbor Freight might have some cheaper tools that could possibly also work fine.

If you do heat treatment, you can also make a kiln. . .here's a shorter one, but you can get it custom made longer. . . http://www.paragonweb.com/Double_Barrel.cfm

Or just use SS and work really slowly.

[jamo]

Any further links to websites explaining how to build a fully automatic weapon (including "almost fully auto") will be removed. 

I'm honestly flabbergasted that even needs to be said.

This is a golf forum. The subject of this thread didn't even involve a fully automatic weapon.

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, jamo said:

Any further links to websites explaining how to build a fully automatic weapon (including "almost fully auto") will be removed. 

I'm honestly flabbergasted that even needs to be said.

This is a golf forum. The subject of this thread didn't even involve a fully automatic weapon.

Sorry, the engineer in me couldn't help it.

[Gunther]

54 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

How about automatic death penalty for anyone committing a crime with a gun?  

One of the better ideas I've seen here.