Lost ball in GUR marked area

[metbid]

We had a situation in a league match last week.  A player hit his 2nd shot long, into a blue staked GUR area past the green, but could not find his ball in the tall grass (we all looked for it).  He took a stroke for the lost ball, but dropped out of the GUR near the green.  Since he declared the lost ball should he have gone back and re-hit from the original location, or was the drop near the green correct?

[David in FL]

As with any ball lost through-the-green, the penalty is stroke and distance.  He should have played from the spot of his previous stroke.

[Missouri Swede]

45 minutes ago, metbid said:

We had a situation in a league match last week.  A player hit his 2nd shot long, into a blue staked GUR area past the green, but could not find his ball in the tall grass (we all looked for it).  He took a stroke for the lost ball, but dropped out of the GUR near the green.  Since he declared the lost ball should he have gone back and re-hit from the original location, or was the drop near the green correct?

 

26 minutes ago, David in FL said:

As with any ball lost through-the-green, the penalty is stroke and distance.  He should have played from the spot of his previous stroke.

Rule 25-1c(1) says you can take relief for a lost ball if it is known or virtually certain that the ball is in an abnormal ground condition (which includes GUR).  So he didn't even need to take the stroke penalty:

Quote

c. Ball in Abnormal Ground Condition Not Found 

It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward an abnormal ground condition is in such a condition. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the abnormal ground condition. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1. 

If it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in an abnormal ground condition, the player may take relief under this Rule. If he elects to do so, the spot where the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition must be determined and, for the purpose of applying this Rule, the ball is deemed to lie at this spot and the player must proceed as follows: 

(i) Through the Green: If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot through the green, the player may substitute another ball, without penalty, and take relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b(i).

 

[iacas]

@metbid, basically, yeah… You have two situations. One or the other would have applied here.

If you were virtually certain it was lost in the GUR: he should have dropped at the nearest point of relief and played from there without penalty.

If you were not virtually certain: it was lost and he should have taken stroke and distance.

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, Missouri Swede said:

 

Rule 25-1c(1) says you can take relief for a lost ball if it is known or virtually certain that the ball is in an abnormal ground condition (which includes GUR).  So he didn't even need to take the stroke penalty:

 

I knew that!  

[metbid]

Thank you all.  He was the one who determined he should take the penalty for the lost ball, we didn't know in this situation.  But it sounds like he was right, in that he took relief as near as could be determined to where the ball would have entered the GUR. He was the one who was 'virtually' certain where it ended up, as we didn't witness the shot because it went over a rise to a green that was out of sight.

[Martyn W]

This one of those unusual situations where a player may be better off not finding his ball. Since the GUR was beyond/behind the green, had he found his ball, the NPR was probably farther from the hole than the the NPR for an 'un-found' ball.

As the Rule states, in order to determine the NPR in this case, the ball is deemed to be lying at the spot where it crossed the outermost limit of the condition - presumably pretty close to the green.

The Rule is the same for a ball KVC to be lost in an obstruction; remember Tiger's ball lost on the roof of the clubhouse at Firestone in 2006?