Completely Different Driver/Iron Setups

[Foot Wedge]

So through a combination of tips I'd received, I was able to start hitting the driver straight instead of with a big slice yesterday at the range.  My only concern is that my driver setup is now completely different than my iron setup.  Before, the only difference was that I stood a bit further back with the ball off the inside of my left foot.  The setup that worked is as follows.

Ball off inside of the left foot, not standing up as tall, right shoulder dropped slightly lower, right foot slightly back and out to promote inside-to-out swing path.

It felt unorthodox at first, but I couldn't argue with the results.  My concern is will having a completely different setup be bad for my regular swing?  Do any others have very different driver/iron setups?  I warmed up with a few gap wedge shots that I hit fine.  Halfway through I hit a few 7's and 6's fine, but at the end I was struggling to hit my 8 well.  Could the different driver setup be messing with my swing?  Or could it just have been fatigue?  I haven't hit through a  bucket of balls in a couple months since I've been practicing by playing 9 holes at the cheapo course right by my house as often as I can.

[Liko81]

A different setup for your driver versus other clubs is not uncommon, because the strategy is different. It should not, however, feel so different that it's unnatural; if you're changing your mechanics that much, you'll be more likely to try to make it feel more natural by backing away from one or more changes while doing everything else the same, and that's when the ball starts doing things you don't want.

On every other club, even woods, you usually want impact right at the bottom of your swing if not slightly to the back, primarily to ensure you hit the ball first without topping it when it's sitting on the deck. This will naturally lead you toward a centered or slightly rearward ball position in your stance for almost all clubs, and a similarly centered, "in-to-in" swing at it, so everything at impact lines up pretty close to where it was at address.

Believe it or not, this will produce playable driver shots as well. However, the shot behavior won't be ideal with a modern driver, because the design of the 1-wood has been specialized over the last couple of decades to produce the best possible shot off the tee, with a specific combination of launch angle and backspin for maximum carry and rollout given your average swing speed, and these design features usually work best with a swing that hits upward at the ball, past the bottom of your swing, meaning a forward ball position.

Picture = word*1000:

None of these pictured swing paths are "bad", per se (even the outside-in path), but they will cause flight path or contact problems for you if the ball is positioned somewhere other than at the point on the path where the club is moving parallel to the intended line. If the ball cannot be positioned in the center of the clubhead when it's facing and moving square to the target line (common with the outside-in path; it's square too early and high), that's when you'll have real problems and have to adjust your path to match a more realistic address.

This is just a wild guess, but your normal swing for your irons, if you're hitting them well, is probably somewhere in the realm of the light blue "inside-to-inside" path, and that's a beautiful swing to have for a centered or slightly rearward ball position, because the path, as you can see, is straight or very nearly so at this point in your stance. For a forward ball position, however, the club will be moving inside the intended line at impact, adding sidespin which will cause the ball to fade or slice away from you (not as badly as with an outside-in path, but enough).

The proper swing path for the more forward ball position is the green "inside-to-outside" path. As the image shows, this path will square the clubhead's line of travel to the target line further forward in your stance, as the clubhead curves around into your follow-through. The bottom of your swing will be further back, closer to your back foot, and so you'll be hitting upward into the ball. There's not a lot of room for error here, as there is with a more in-to-in path, but when you strip it just right, you'll get the ideal high-angle, low-spin straight launch that will send the ball downrange the longest distance for the energy you're putting into it.

However, if you get too used to that path with other clubs, you'll start pushing and/or hooking them, because at the center of your stance and/or the bottom of your swing, the club is moving outward. If the clubface is square to the target line, you'll hook the ball. If it's in line with the swing, you'll push. In any case the timing of other events in your swing, like throwing your hands over, will be affected and the ball flight will be just plain inconsistent.

The key is to practice all your swings, from your longest club to your shortest. The next time you hit the range, try hitting five off the tee with your driver, then five with a 7-iron, then maybe 5 with a 3-wood or hybrid and 5 with a full-swing wedge. Keep rotating through these clubs, focusing on making each of them do what you want. The idea is to make each swing with each club feel natural, without letting anything that you have to do differently with one club affect what you're doing with any other.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Liko81

[Foot Wedge]

Wow @Liko81 thanks for all the insight, a lot of it makes sense and I think you may be right about my swing type based on what you've summarized and a video of my swing that a friend took.  Squeezed in a few holes yesterday and my slice was back with a vengeance.  However, I did hit my irons well.  So I think that my iron swing was overcoming what I had worked into my driver swing at the range.  Even birdied a par 3....8 iron from the tee.  So this whole inside-square-inside thing is making a bit more sense than "how on god's green earth am I hitting irons pure and slicing my driver into the next county".

That said, I guess the fix to my driver is specifically having an inside-outside swing for that particular club.  From what you've said moving the ball back in my stance should help, but how would that work with a driver since they're supposed to be hit on the upswing?  I'm thinking a few lessons may be a good investment.

[Liko81]

2 hours ago, caddystacks said:

That said, I guess the fix to my driver is specifically having an inside-outside swing for that particular club.  From what you've said moving the ball back in my stance should help, but how would that work with a driver since they're supposed to be hit on the upswing?  I'm thinking a few lessons may be a good investment.

You can either do one or the other; you can move the ball back in your stance and keep your natural swing, or you can keep the ball on your left instep and keep working on dialing in that inside-out swing. If you do both you'll probably end up with a straight push; you can correct this by closing the clubface a little to produce the fabled "power draw", which if you can control and aim it well is a very pro-looking shot shape, but for now let's focus on a clean, straight drive.

If you keep working on the new swing path, your "swing thought" should be "out" more than "up". Hitting up on the ball will be a natural consequence of teeing the ball forward, so you don't have to worry too much about that. What you do have to watch out for is "wrapping" your follow-through by thinking you have to "pull up" on the ball at impact. That will bring your swing path to the inside sooner and introduce inconsistencies. If you focus instead on extending the swing outward from yourself and keeping a high follow-through, you'll straighten the path a little more at the crucial time so it will be more forgiving of being slightly ahead or behind the ideal impact point, and you'll get the high-angle, low-spin launch the modern driver is designed to hit.

If you move everything back a little closer to center, consider getting re-fit for your driver. You may want a bit more loft, and/or a shaft with a lower kick point, to bring the launch angle up with your more centered swing. It may not seem manly to have a driver with a "12*HL" loft marking in your bag, but Golf.com estimates that 75% or more of golfers are using too much club, so they're launching too low, and that's costing them carry distance and thus total distance (they get more rollout, but rollout doesn't help you carry that water hazard 180 yards out, and the ball travels much more efficiently through air than rolling through the grass). If the centered swing is working for you, make your equipment match your play style.

And yes, definitely get a lesson or three. I took a wild guess at the problem, which seems to be a lucky guess given your response, but a pro giving you a face-to-face lesson will be able to examine your swing in person and tell you how to correct anything you're doing wrong with the new path, with much less guesswork.

[Foot Wedge]

30 minutes ago, Liko81 said:

It may not seem manly to have a driver with a "12*HL" loft marking in your bag

I have no problem with this.  My friend has his driver dialed in at 12* and absolutely crushes it.  Not to mention that I prioritize what works over what's "manly".  My SUV has only 4 cylinders, I shoot a 9mm pistol, I wear an apron when I cook, and I choke down on my 43" fairway wood.  All of these things work, which is what I need out of my driver.

If I have some time between now and when I take my first lesson I'll experiment with the ball placement.  If that doesn't help I'll definitely focus on the swing type during the lessons.  Depending on what results I see, I may change drivers.  I use one that I picked up in college because it was on sale, then found out I needed a stiff shaft and threw on whatever was on sale. So no part of that driver was "fit" for me.  This is certainly a user issue, not equipment, but those adjustable drivers would give me a lot of options for fine tuning, especially for loft.  Thanks for all your input!

[Liko81]

1 hour ago, caddystacks said:

Depending on what results I see, I may change drivers.  I use one that I picked up in college because it was on sale, then found out I needed a stiff shaft and threw on whatever was on sale. So no part of that driver was "fit" for me.  This is certainly a user issue, not equipment, but those adjustable drivers would give me a lot of options for fine tuning, especially for loft.

Definitely get fitted; if you need a stiff shaft, you probably have a high swing speed (>100mph), but the natural "off-the-rack" complement to a stiff flex is a lower loft to transfer more of your swing's energy outward instead of upward, which is the wrong move for you if you're already launching low with a more centered swing.

Be careful with adjustable drivers. They're very adaptable and flexible by design, which could make that driver the last one you'll ever need as your swing adapts over time. However, the ability to "cheat", by simply adjusting the club at the range before tee-off for whatever you're doing wrong that day, is very seductive, and it encourages a more and more incorrect swing (as the club will behave badly with a correct swing when adjusted for an incorrect one). Adjustables are like eyeglasses; a lot of people need them to correct a minor problem, but too much correction causes you to end up needing even more as time passes. You have to be disciplined enough to either (a) not adjust on a day-to-day basis, (b) always return the club to a predefined "neutral" after the round and use those settings on the range, and/or (c) keep a fitted, non-adjustable driver handy for the range to keep you honest as you practice.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Liko81

[Foot Wedge]

I agree, I don't intend to use a driver to fix an issue, rather just optimize something that is working for me such as adding a degree of loft.  I'll be taking the lessons, but all the background info will be helpful to keep in mind.  I appreciate it!

[skeedawg]

I went through this drill with my driver setup recently as well. The change was very similar...ball way forward (for me right at end of my left foot), weight more back (45%left, 55%right), right shoulder back a bit...this has resulted in straight, draw for me the more I've practiced it. Also, I used some impact tape to help me get this more customized for myself. Moving the ball so far forward also meant I had to tee it up a bit higher than normal, so the impact tape helped me get that dialed in as well. 

[Foot Wedge]

I stumbled upon a drill to swing inside to outside with 2 water bottles.  Basically one placed where you'd be coming from the outside before impact, and another placed where you'd go inside after contact.  To not hit either you'd have to swing in to out.  After getting past the jitters of smacking the inside water bottle, I started swinging between the bottles and could feel my swing being a bit flatter and arms going more out on the follow through than wrapping around.  I didn't hit any balls since I was out on the deck and don't like gratuitously paying for damages to people's houses, so I couldn't get any feedback, but is anyone familiar with this or a similar drill?

Edited September 9, 2016 by caddystacks

[zero]

It took me 3 years to reconcile different setups for driver and irons. Year 1 - slice slice slice. Year 2 - remove driver from bag. This year - no problems. That's because all 3 years I worked hard on various aspects of my swing, researched and tried many drivers and bought one right for me. Finally all 14 clubs in the bag are working. I now have a Callaway X2 Hot adjusted for draw.