Massive Push Slices/Pull Hooks - Mainly Driver

[DownAndOut]

On 10/13/2016 at 6:36 PM, Fhmlp said:

Hi all,

I have been playing golf since I was around 12 and have struggled in the past few years especially in getting the ball off the tee with the most destructive tee shots in golf

I suffer from massive block slices with the driver which can result in the ball starting at least 100 yards right of target and ending up about 150 yards right (serious) or the opposite, the ball starts slightly left, travels around 150 yards and viciously hooks into trouble (shot shown in the video - apologies for slow mo). To add to the issue I can sometimes just block the driver with no slice and with my irons simply pull them.

My swing has always been in to out and when I was younger I used to have a nice controlled draw however since I have gained distance it is simply uncontrollable hence my handicap of 11. When i attempt to initiate the downswing by bringing the club more out to in the ball most of the time either goes straight left or left and hooks. Even when I attempt to slow the swing down I simply don't get through the ball and block slices as usual.

I believe part of the issue is down to not being able to control the clubface however I feel it stems from my angle of attack and not being confident in the swing so I either leave the clubface open or shut it at impact

Any advice is greatly appreciated as I'm lucky if I hit the same fairway once a round nevermind a dozen..... (luckily I play at a massively open course). 

 

Hi Fhmlp

If you are a handicap of 11 and still experiencing 100-150 yd wide slices, your mid-short game must be phenomenal. Have you posted the video anywhere? I'm not really a fan of tips which may only be 'band aids' but we might be able to see what looks wrong . Only a good golfer can tell you what you should be doing but a seasoned PGA instructor can tell you 'how' to fix it.

[Fhmlp]

9 hours ago, DownAndOut said:

Hi Fhmlp

If you are a handicap of 11 and still experiencing 100-150 yd wide slices, your mid-short game must be phenomenal. Have you posted the video anywhere? I'm not really a fan of tips which may only be 'band aids' but we might be able to see what looks wrong . Only a good golfer can tell you what you should be doing but a seasoned PGA instructor can tell you 'how' to fix it.

Here is a link to a video where I hit a sharp snap hook on the range, the ball after was the usual block with an iron, and yes my short game I consider to be that of a low single figure golfer I just can't seem to get the ball off the tee, as evidenced the past 2 rounds of golf I have hit 2 fairways in total... As shown on the video I can clearly see numerous faults with my swing such as head ducking on the downswing, feet off the ground, path to in to out and clubface closed but are these all interconnected or just different errors all amounting to these wildly eratic shots? Any help is much appreciated it's just gotten to the point where I want to seriously sort it out properly.

As mentioned in an earlier post my grip I consider to be perfectly normal, can see at least 2 knuckles with the left hand and the right hand is firmly over the grip not under as is the case for many who tend to suffer from blocks and hooks.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Fhmlp

[natureboy]

40 minutes ago, Fhmlp said:

Here is a link to a video where I hit a sharp snap hook on the range, the ball after was the usual block with an iron, and yes my short game I consider to be that of a low single figure golfer I just can't seem to get the ball off the tee, as evidenced the past 2 rounds of golf I have hit 2 fairways in total... As shown on the video I can clearly see numerous faults with my swing such as head ducking on the downswing, feet off the ground, path to in to out and clubface closed but are these all interconnected or just different errors all amounting to these wildly eratic shots? Any help is much appreciated it's just gotten to the point where I want to seriously sort it out properly.

As mentioned in an earlier post my grip I consider to be perfectly normal, can see at least 2 knuckles with the left hand and the right hand is firmly over the grip not under as is the case for many who tend to suffer from blocks and hooks.

You seem to have a bit of a Bubba / Lexi Thompson jump through impact. I expect while it likely helps with power, it also affects your clubhead closure timing - making consistent impact more difficult.

The thread says massive push slices, but above you say you usually block with the irons. Is the push slice typically only with driver?

[DownAndOut]

You have a very flexible body but I think you are really compressing that spine through impact (wow!!). Your posture may need tweaking . Classically, a line from the middle of your shoulder joints should pass through the front of your knees and through the instep of your feet. You should be able to wiggle your toes up and down without feeling too much weight on your heels (the arches should feel like suction cups). You have that excessive S shaped spine look where your behind is poking out while there is a curve of your spine from the sacrum (it needs to be straighter) . Check out the thread below as a starter.

I also suspect that you are shifting too much pressure loading over your left hip just before your downswing progresses. This will lock your lead hip from rotating and you will have no choice but to activate your glutes to keep your pelvis rotating- this means your legs will extend and you will start getting early extension where your hips will move towards the ball . I can see that your glutes have been activated very early because there is so much vertical pressure through your feet that you are jumping in the air. 

I am not qualified to tell you how to fix these issues as they could be effects of something else . A good teacher should be able to spot the root cause (ie. cure the disease , not some of the symptoms)

 

 

[Fhmlp]

17 hours ago, natureboy said:

You seem to have a bit of a Bubba / Lexi Thompson jump through impact. I expect while it likely helps with power, it also affects your clubhead closure timing - making consistent impact more difficult.

The thread says massive push slices, but above you say you usually block with the irons. Is the push slice typically only with driver?

With a driver I suffer from the following 3 bad shots and the % likelihood:

1) Push slice - 50% (minimum 100 yards right)

2) Block - 30% (roughly 40 yards right)

3) Snap Hook - 20% (whenever it hits trouble) 

Coincidentally with irons I can quite easily achieve all 3 above along with a straight pull which I never do with a driver. Sadly I have all 4 horrible shots in the locker some of which are completely uncorrelated with each other leading me to believe there's something fundamentally wrong with the setup/clubface at impact.

In answer to the question I can push slice irons aswell however it definitely isn't as common as it is with a driver..

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, Fhmlp said:

With a driver I suffer from the following 3 bad shots and the % likelihood:

1) Push slice - 50% (minimum 100 yards right)

2) Block - 30% (roughly 40 yards right)

3) Snap Hook - 20% (whenever it hits trouble) 

Coincidentally with irons I can quite easily achieve all 3 above along with a straight pull which I never do with a driver. Sadly I have all 4 horrible shots in the locker some of which are completely uncorrelated with each other leading me to believe there's something fundamentally wrong with the setup/clubface at impact.

In answer to the question I can push slice irons aswell however it definitely isn't as common as it is with a driver..

Do you mean that's the 100% of your outcomes or 100% of your bad shots? I'd show them as a % of all your shots. So the bias is toward leaving the face open and you are about 50/50 on in-to-out vs. out-to-in path. And when you have an out-to-in path with driver you usually leave the face open.

Are you trying to hit up on the driver? Do you use a different ball position with the driver?

Edited October 18, 2016 by natureboy

[Fhmlp]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

Do you mean that's the 100% of your outcomes or 100% of your bad shots? I'd show them as a % of all your shots. So the bias is toward leaving the face open and you are about 50/50 on in-to-out vs. out-to-in path. And when you have an out-to-in path with driver you usually leave the face open.

Are you trying to hit up on the driver? Do you use a different ball position with the driver?

That's 100% of my bad shots, as I mentioned before I have hit 2 fairways in total the past few rounds, my great drive is a slight draw.... For definite the bias is towards leaving the face open but I always thought a block/snap hook is caused by an in-out swing path and either hanging back or flipping the hands over. The block slice I assume is the same but I also leave the clubface open as I drop the club so far inside on the downswing? 

 

I'm unsure whether I'm trying to hit up I don't do it intentionally anyway.... My ball position is usually just inside my left foot.

[Kalnoky]

the first person to invent a driver you can hit far and straight with an outside/in armsy type of swing is going to make one million-billion dollars.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Kalnoky

[natureboy]

2 hours ago, Fhmlp said:

That's 100% of my bad shots, as I mentioned before I have hit 2 fairways in total the past few rounds, my great drive is a slight draw.... For definite the bias is towards leaving the face open but I always thought a block/snap hook is caused by an in-out swing path and either hanging back or flipping the hands over. The block slice I assume is the same but I also leave the clubface open as I drop the club so far inside on the downswing? 

I'm unsure whether I'm trying to hit up I don't do it intentionally anyway.... My ball position is usually just inside my left foot.

The block slice can be from hanging back / backing up too. The arc doesn't move forward so you end up wiping out-to-in across the ball (especially if you're shallow through the strike). Need to experiment or take videos to determine the guilty faults.

I'd suspect you've got hanging back & over the top (OTT) tendencies. A snap hook is basically a pull hook (starts left & goes further left. That's often associated with OTT. The hooks are probably an overcorrection to your regular tendency maybe getting to your lead side and coming over the top (to steep), but from the inside.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/butch-harmon-stop-snap-hooks

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/golf-fix-eliminate-snap-hook/

Edited October 19, 2016 by natureboy

[carpediem4300]

being a cured push slicer for me it all came down to connection and maintaining the triangle, as soon as my left arm broke down on the backswing it was game over, by the time my chest had returned to address position on the downswing and past my hands were still close to my rear hip, and my club further back still,......result is a serious in to out path and with an open face.

 

My fix was to feel the triangle being maintained all the way through the backswing and downswing (feels weird as hell, i didnt feel like i was breaking my wrists, doing a full turn or anything, but alas, feel is not reel, i do get a full turn, and my wrists to break,....i had to spend alot of time learning this slowly to engrain the feel, this stopped the block slices instantly, it also means i dont have to do any hand/wrist manipulation on the downswing, if i return my hands to address position at the same time as my chest squares the club has lagged naturaly and release naturally

 

the issue which i have since had and i am starting to overcome is when you maintain this connection well the block is fixed but if you spin out with your hips you suddenly come OTT and and either pull slice or pull hook it

 

with this, remember to slide the hips forward as you rotate them, the post by Iacas i just posted on describes this brilliantly