Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[sirhacksalot]

52 minutes ago, Lihu said:

used to do this, but it makes things even worse and can develop some bad habits.

We're told here repeatedly that the practice range are for fixes and the course is for playing.

It sucks I hate it. No matter how hard I try I just can't help it. It's not just golf anything I'm into, I get obsessed with, when in started painting I did the same thing, watched youtube videos, learned different  techniques, studied everyday.  It's how I'm wired. 

I want to just play golf.  I want to be a stupid monkey.  I want to be happy with a swing and stick with it.  Instead of constant tweaks.

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

xactly, a good golfer is going to play conservatively. As long as possible without ending up in trouble.

This is a topic that gets discussed quite a bit.  I know LSW tells me I am going to score better the closest to the green I am, rough or not.  So its hard to not just grab driver.  Even though on good drives it could mean less than a lob wedge in or even sometimes a pitch on those short par 4's.

Edited March 8, 2017 by sirhacksalot

[Fairway_CY]

Back at it today.  I've been consistently at 90 or better for the last month.  I haven't posted an 18 hole score over 90 since February 4th while posting 9 scores since that date.  

Today was aggravating for me, though.  I struck the ball very well throughout the round but I could NOT get a putt to drop.  I went off the deep end putting with a total of 41 strokes on the greens including 5 three-putts and a four-putt on the 2nd hole.  

44 - 44 = 88

I did manage to squeak out 2 birdies throughout the round, but... it was really annoying being on the greens and being afraid to putt the ball.  

At least I know what I need to get back to work on.

CY

[Fairway_CY]

9 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

This is a topic that gets discussed quite a bit.  I know LSW tells me I am going to score better the closest to the green I am, rough or not.  So its hard to not just grab driver.  Even though on good drives it could mean less than a lob wedge in or even sometimes a pitch on those short par 4's.

I play frequently with a buddy who is struggling with the same type of thing.  He feels that he NEEDS to hit his driver on almost every hole that isn't a par 3.  

I hit my average drive about 230 yards.  If I smash one, it'll go 250-270, but more often than not... I'm at about 230 yards.  On MOST courses I play, that's going to leave me 150 or less into the greens on a majority of the par 4's.  I've come to learn that, while getting the ball as close to the green as possible is valuable to my score... so is staying out of trouble.  

If there is trouble (say a set of fairway bunkers) at the 230 - 250 range and I can hit something short of that and still be left with a shorter club (7 iron or less) into a green, I'll go with the smarter play.  Now... it doesn't always work out because I can still hit a 4 iron off line and end up in the rough or something, but... I'd rather be in the rough than in a fairway bunker.  

My strategy is my strategy.  I have read LSW.  I believe in what it says... but I also believe that there isn't a 'one stop shop' type of book or site that is going to be perfect for EVERYBODY.  Making individual tweaks to things can help greatly, in my opinion.  

Since I've purchased and read LSW and I've begun to practice with a purpose and I've focused my attention on the course to where I'm less likely to get into trouble... my scores have dramatically improved.  It used to be a special round for me when I'd shoot 90 or better.  I'm averaging 89.50 per round so far in 2017 and I am annoyed if I don't get to at least that target score of 90.  

Take what you're gonna take from the book.  Adapt it to your game and implement small things about it at a time.  I still suck at golf, but I suck less than I did before.  That's something to me.

CY

 

[roamin]

56 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

 I know LSW tells me I am going to score better the closest to the green I am, rough or not.

Not really an accurate representation. Depending on the rough, it could absolutely matter. During the winter at my home course where the grass thins out, it's no issue. But come June (edit: anytime after February), after a good week or two of rain, it definitely comes into play.

37 minutes ago, Fairway_CY said:

while getting the ball as close to the green as possible is valuable to my score... so is staying out of trouble.  

+1000 to this. For what it's worth, I think LSW does a great job of making this clear. You have to be able to advance the ball on your next shot.

[sirhacksalot]

4 minutes ago, roamin said:

+1000 to this. For what it's worth, I think LSW does a great job of making this clear. You have to be able to advance the ball on your next shot.

It does and I misunderstand my swing and results more than I misunderstand the book.  Sometimes I hit into hazards because I honestly just didn't think I was reaching them that day and I do.  But mostly I feel like I holes with water/trees left or right, I'm just as likely to go in them with a wood or hybrid.  Less likely  with an iron but that starts taking some ngir's out ot the equation,  or brings ob around the greens into play. 

[roamin]

1 minute ago, sirhacksalot said:

It does and I misunderstand my swing and results more than I misunderstand the book.  Sometimes I hit into hazards because I honestly just didn't think I was reaching them that day and I do.  But mostly I feel like I holes with water/trees left or right, I'm just as likely to go in them with a wood or hybrid.  Less likely  with an iron but that starts taking some ngir's out ot the equation,  or brings ob around the greens into play. 

Hang in there. I'm right there with you. 

The 7th hole at a course I play has water on the right and possible lost balls to the left of a ~30 yard fairway/light rough area that goes from about 190 out to 230, slightly uphill. A good drive will end up in the fairway anywhere from 210-250 w/ roll, depending on the wind that day. Problem is, anything less than "a really good shot" and I lose a stroke and possibly distance. So after LSW and a bad string of 3 straight rounds in the water (), I decided I was hitting a 3-iron off the tee from now on. After pulling it out of the bag the next round and listening to my buddies give me crap about it, I tee'd the ball up and hit a nasty, low slice that went out about 130 yards, turned right, and ended up in a large patch of tall grass and bushes (and snakes, I'm sure) that I'd never really noticed before.

Of course, this "proved" (in my buddies' eyes) that my strategy was flawed. Two of them lost balls as well, but they hit driver so it was "more okay" in their minds. Here's the thing, my shot was an outlier. Worst shot I've hit with my 3-iron in 20 rounds. The next round I hit 3-iron/5-iron, then pitched on from about 10 yards (pin-high) and made par.

I've found you have adjust to the course and what works for you, but the principle remains the same. The par 5, 9th hole has a 20 yard long fairway bunker on the left that may stop a longer hitter from cutting the corner, but the rough in front of it is light (for now) and my best drives only make it 5 yards into the bunker. The lip is low and it's hard Florida clay with a light layer of fine sand. I find it quite easy to hit long irons out of it, so I aim just to the right of it and swing away. I either hit a straight shot or fade that ends up in the fairway, or a slight draw that puts me just in front of, or into the bunker. I have 9/10 chance being able to at least hit a 3 or 4-iron on my next shot. All trouble is not equal. 

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, sirhacksalot said:

It sucks I hate it. No matter how hard I try I just can't help it. It's not just golf anything I'm into, I get obsessed with, when in started painting I did the same thing, watched youtube videos, learned different  techniques, studied everyday.  It's how I'm wired. 

I want to just play golf.  I want to be a stupid monkey.  I want to be happy with a swing and stick with it.  Instead of constant tweaks.

Yeah, same here.

To be totally truthful, I think I'm finally at a point where I could be one.

 

Quote

This is a topic that gets discussed quite a bit.  I know LSW tells me I am going to score better the closest to the green I am, rough or not.  So its hard to not just grab driver.  Even though on good drives it could mean less than a lob wedge in or even sometimes a pitch on those short par 4's.

It all depends upon your shot zone for the driver. If it doesn't give you trouble then that's the right club, but if the zone covers a bunch of trees left or right take it out.

[808hacker]

Golf is stupid. One day I am hitting the greens so easily. 184 yards out, I put it 5 feet to miss! But I was hitting so many greens and scoring very decently.

I go out the next day and I can't even hit a single green. Well, one did hit the green but after hitting a tree and stopping for a tap in birdie. Crazy.

I didn't hit any greens and was constantly trying to make a decent score and ended up with 87. It felt like 100. I didn't do anything different - just was playing a lot worse.

I haven't played since then. Trying to pretend that the bad day was a fluke!

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, 808hacker said:

I go out the next day and I can't even hit a single green. Well, one did hit the green but after hitting a tree and stopping for a tap in birdie. Crazy.

I didn't hit any greens and was constantly trying to make a decent score and ended up with 87. It felt like 100. I didn't do anything different - just was playing a lot worse.

Could be just the conditions? Sometimes the greens just don't hold very well?

[Fairway_CY]

1 hour ago, 808hacker said:

Golf is stupid. One day I am hitting the greens so easily. 184 yards out, I put it 5 feet to miss! But I was hitting so many greens and scoring very decently.

I go out the next day and I can't even hit a single green. Well, one did hit the green but after hitting a tree and stopping for a tap in birdie. Crazy.

I didn't hit any greens and was constantly trying to make a decent score and ended up with 87. It felt like 100. I didn't do anything different - just was playing a lot worse.

I haven't played since then. Trying to pretend that the bad day was a fluke!

I've been there.  The worst for me is when they happen in back-to-back rounds just a day apart.  

I know that, because I don't have the time to put the necessary practice into my game, I'm going to struggle with being consistent.  Unfortunately, there are times I'll go a week or so without even getting to touch a club.  That makes things difficult... especially if I have a round like I had yesterday where I'm hitting the ball really well and leaving myself in pretty decent positions.  If I don't touch a club after a round like that for a week... all the feelings I had from that previous round are gone and I can't seem to get it back.  

It's frustrating.  I just know that when I DO finally have the time to practice as needed and I get some lessons, I'll need to make sure that I'm dedicated to it.  I have weeks where I can get out 4-5 times to hit balls and/or play... but then I have weeks where I can't even think about golf because of other factors.  

Hang in there man.  Struggling to an 87 is not all that bad in my eyes!

CY

[iacas]

On 3/8/2017 at 6:33 PM, Fairway_CY said:

If there is trouble (say a set of fairway bunkers) at the 230 - 250 range and I can hit something short of that and still be left with a shorter club (7 iron or less) into a green, I'll go with the smarter play.  Now... it doesn't always work out because I can still hit a 4 iron off line and end up in the rough or something, but... I'd rather be in the rough than in a fairway bunker.  

My strategy is my strategy.  I have read LSW.  I believe in what it says... but I also believe that there isn't a 'one stop shop' type of book or site that is going to be perfect for EVERYBODY.  Making individual tweaks to things can help greatly, in my opinion.  

I'm not sure you really understood the GamePlanning/Decision Mapping in LSW if you think that always getting the ball close to the hole is the strategy we espouse.

Fairway bunkers would be a very dark shade of grey. Thick rough could be as well.

[JetFan1983]

On 3/8/2017 at 0:17 PM, sirhacksalot said:

Can anyone point to a thread that talks about shooting low (for us) on the front but then typical or worse on the back?  I have had a handful of rounds where I will break or tie my best on the front nine shooting only 3 or 4 over, then on the back i will have 10 more strokes easily.  Ive had 38-52 39-48 etc. Honestly if i kept handicap by nine holes it would be scary.

That's actually typical of a bogey golfer. If you think of your swing like a slot machine, you have a certain probability of results whenever you pull the handle. So your back nine high scores tend to simply be just a regression towards the mean. A lot of people chalk it up to a bad mental game, but I don't necessarily agree, even though that's always a possibility. It's far more likely your overall motion doesn't consistently produce enough good shots. I sound like Captain Obvious right now, but sometimes the obvious is worth mentioning.

 

[Fairway_CY]

20 hours ago, iacas said:

I'm not sure you really understood the GamePlanning/Decision Mapping in LSW if you think that always getting the ball close to the hole is the strategy we espouse.

Fairway bunkers would be a very dark shade of grey. Thick rough could be as well.

I went back and read my post and I can't find where I said or implied that.

Now I'm confused.  If my post was interpreted that way, it's not what I meant to convey.  

CY

[iacas]

I took what I quoted as saying that we suggest hitting into an area with fairway bunkers because it gets you closer to the hole.

That's all. If you didn't, okay. I can see how you didn't that way, too.

[808hacker]

Quote

 It's far more likely your overall motion doesn't consistently produce enough good shots.

YES! That's probably it for me. I realized last night at the range that so much of my bad shots are affected by my right arm motion. Everything else being taken into consideration - for me, it's so important. Tempo, alignment etc... all important but that right arm motion for me - squares the club face.

Yesterday was terrible - bad tempo and while every drive seems to be decent to pretty good - my irons are off. Still not hitting the greens reliably. For the final two holes, I hit a punch shot to the green on a par 5 and made birdie, then on the next par 3, I did what I call - swing in a circle thought and hit the green and made par which was good. But then I went to the range later and worked on accuracy and I found that when I made those bad shots, my right arm was "probably" the cause. Will have to see.

What's happening is my overall full swing motion is really terrible for squaring the club face. Punch shots - at least I understand how to square that face, but overall swing - not so good to be more consistent.

[808hacker]

I just saw the thread on being able to leave the flagstick in. For me, that is a godsend. I KNOW I putt much better with the stick in! Lag putts as well - something about having more to see - rather than a small hole. Love it as a bogey golfer. Probably not so good for keeping the game the same.

[Spooky]

 I'm a 43 yo guy currently playing to a 20 HI. I've been in the game since the early 90's and have recently (within the last 2 years) ditched my old swing and have been actively rebuilding things from the ground up, WITHOUT the help of a golf instructor. I happened upon a book called "The Laws of the golf Swing" by Mike Adams, TJ Tomassi and Jim Suttie. It came out in 99' and I wish I'd discovered it then. The premise of the book is that there are a million ways to swing a club, but the most important thing is matching your body type (build, flexibility, strength, etc.) to your swing, to maximize your potential and find your own "natural" or "perfect" swing. This book has been my Bible for the past couple seasons (which are unfortunately very short here in upstate NY). I've seen some amazing gains and transformations as I customize my swing to match my natural tendencies. Much of it is trial and error, but the book points you in the direction of what is right for YOU and eliminates alot of pitfalls. I also highly recommend Jim Suttie's follow-up book, titled "Your Perfect Swing". It's the perfect addendum to the Laws and contains quite a few nuggets of its own.

[Fairway_CY]

Due to the weather and some things going on around the house, I took an unplanned week off since my last round.  I then got out to play on Friday and Saturday.  

Friday

Things started out pretty well.  I struggled with my driver as I kept hooking tee shots, but they weren't so bad that they were unplayable.  Other than a quad on the 3rd hole, I played pretty well and managed a 44.  I was in pretty good position on the back when I reached the 15th and I was only +2 for that side.  Then the wheels came off.  I finished triple - double - double - double due to a combination of poor ball striking and poor putting.

My 44 - 47 = 91 wasn't anything to write home about, but I wasn't all that upset about it.  

Saturday

I played in the next tournament of the Charlotte area Golfweek Amateur Tour.  I was +1 through my first 10 holes as I managed to make 3 birdies fairly early in my round.  Although I struggled a bit down the stretch, I held on.  

My 40 - 44 = 84 was enough to win C Flight by 3 strokes.  I now sit & wait to see if I'm getting bumped up to B Flight or not.  If not, I almost certainly will following my next round as I'm right on the handicap threshold.  

All in all, it was a pretty good weekend for golf.  Now I put the clubs away until next Sunday when I'm on vacation in Florida.  

CY