Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[billchao]

Actually, my slice is usually about 5-10 yards.

I'm not picking on you in particular, Lihu, but a lot of people in this thread seem to think they hit a 5 yard fade/draw, whatever. A 5-10 yard fade/draw is a pretty good shot. I consider a 5 yard draw to be pretty much straight. On a typical green, if you aimed at the center, the 10 yard "miss" would still be on the green. If we were all hitting 5 yard fades, none of us would be in this thread. Now, if you aimed at the center of the green and pulled it left, then it sliced off the right side, well you didn't hit a 10 yard fade ;-) [quote name="No Mulligans" url="/t/70872/bogey-golfer-only-thread-handicap-index-from-16-22-what-are-you-going-through-working-on-sob-stories/1020#post_1068555"]My miss, which is way too often, is a slice with my driver.  Regardless, I set up with a closed stance and aim just right of the middle.  I'm not going to line up to play my miss.  The heck with my score. [/quote]That setup can cause you to instinctively pull the ball and make it easier to slice because your path is left.

[natureboy]

Does anyone know what the average penalty strokes are by average handicap / score per the chart below?

AVERAGE SCORE
71	75	79	81	85	89	91	95	99

[teamroper60]

I'm not picking on you in particular, Lihu, but a lot of people in this thread seem to think they hit a 5 yard fade/draw, whatever. A 5-10 yard fade/draw is a pretty good shot. I consider a 5 yard draw to be pretty much straight.

On a typical green, if you aimed at the center, the 10 yard "miss" would still be on the green. If we were all hitting 5 yard fades, none of us would be in this thread.

Now, if you aimed at the center of the green and pulled it left, then it sliced off the right side, well you didn't hit a 10 yard fade

That setup can cause you to instinctively pull the ball and make it easier to slice because your path is left.

While I agree with your premise, I disagree with the highlighted part as a general statement.   I have spent most of this year trying to get a reliable shot off the tee.   I have finally achieved that and yes, it really is about 5-10 yards most of the time.   Is it that way on every single shot?  No, but then again, even the pros don't hit the shot they intended all the time.   According to my statistics, I am hitting north of 60% of my fairways and now my miss is a straight shot to the left (or that draw I was trying to hit most of the year) rather than the two-way misss that had me spraying it all over the course earlier in the year.  Stubborn as I am, I neglected the rest of my game while trying to get a reliable driver shot and now my irons, which used to be my strong suit are sucking about half the time, meaning I hit a great tee shot, only to hit my second shot fat, or push/pull it, etc....    So while I understand what you meant over most of your post (and agree with the majority of it as well), I think it is too generic to presume everyone sucks at all facets of the game and consequently, it isn't necessarily accurate.

On a separate but related note, I have finally come to the realization that if I would set my stubborness aside, quit trying to force things on the course and just play golf, I might actually be able to move out of this thread.

[Lihu]

I'm not picking on you in particular, Lihu, but a lot of people in this thread seem to think they hit a 5 yard fade/draw, whatever. A 5-10 yard fade/draw is a pretty good shot. I consider a 5 yard draw to be pretty much straight. On a typical green, if you aimed at the center, the 10 yard "miss" would still be on the green. If we were all hitting 5 yard fades, none of us would be in this thread. Now, if you aimed at the center of the green and pulled it left, then it sliced off the right side, well you didn't hit a 10 yard fade ;-) That setup can cause you to instinctively pull the ball and make it easier to slice because your path is left.

My slice is usually 5-10 yards. It's 20 plus yards of push slice that can get really bad. Btw, how wide are your fairways?

[rkim291968]

This may be a case of semantics here.   Some people call anything that moves left to right a slice and anything moving right to left a hook.

Not really.  I think only ill informed golfers may assume the bold above.  Student of golf should know that there are two types of balls moving left to right.  One is a slice, and the other is a push.   Most of my balls going left to right is a push with a slice mixed time and again.  I graduated from hitting slice early on but can't seem to shake off the pushes.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billchao

I'm not picking on you in particular, Lihu, but a lot of people in this thread seem to think they hit a 5 yard fade/draw, whatever. A 5-10 yard fade/draw is a pretty good shot. I consider a 5 yard draw to be pretty much straight.

On a typical green, if you aimed at the center, the 10 yard "miss" would still be on the green. If we were all hitting 5 yard fades, none of us would be in this thread.

Now, if you aimed at the center of the green and pulled it left, then it sliced off the right side, well you didn't hit a 10 yard fade

That setup can cause you to instinctively pull the ball and make it easier to slice because your path is left.

While I agree with your premise, I disagree with the highlighted part as a general statement.   I have spent most of this year trying to get a reliable shot off the tee.   I have finally achieved that and yes, it really is about 5-10 yards most of the time.   Is it that way on every single shot?  No, but then again, even the pros don't hit the shot they intended all the time.   According to my statistics, I am hitting north of 60% of my fairways and now my miss is a straight shot to the left (or that draw I was trying to hit most of the year) rather than the two-way misss that had me spraying it all over the course earlier in the year.  Stubborn as I am, I neglected the rest of my game while trying to get a reliable driver shot and now my irons, which used to be my strong suit are sucking about half the time, meaning I hit a great tee shot, only to hit my second shot fat, or push/pull it, etc....    So while I understand what you meant over most of your post (and agree with the majority of it as well), I think it is too generic to presume everyone sucks at all facets of the game and consequently, it isn't necessarily accurate.

On a separate but related note, I have finally come to the realization that if I would set my stubborness aside, quit trying to force things on the course and just play golf, I might actually be able to move out of this thread.

I am with billChao on this.   If I can hit fade or push that goes consistently 5 yards to side with any club, I will be playing single digit golf (probably even a lower end of single digit).    I have 61% fairway hit rate and average miss on those "hits" are about 15 yards from the dead center.

[No Mulligans]

That setup can cause you to instinctively pull the ball and make it easier to slice because your path is left.

By closed stance I've got my back foot about 1/2" to 1" back relative to a target line from the front of my front foot.  Not nearly as closed as recommended from Hogan's Five Fundamentals.  It encourages an inside out swing path relative to the target.

At the practice range and on the course, I hit it straighter more often with that stance.

[Lihu]

I am with billChao on this.   If I can hit fade or push that goes consistently 5 yards to side with any club, I will be playing single digit golf (probably even a lower end of single digit).    I have 61% fairway hit rate and average miss on those "hits" are about 15 yards from the dead center.

Maybe you would, but I'm not. Although we should qualify the slice with 5-10 yards. It still takes an accurate approach shot then a decent short game. The other factor is distance, we didn't really factor that.

[billchao]

So while I understand what you meant over most of your post (and agree with the majority of it as well), I think it is too generic to presume everyone sucks at all facets of the game and consequently, it isn't necessarily accurate.

I didn't presume that at all, but it was a very generic statement, so by definition isn't necessarily accurate

My slice is usually 5-10 yards. It's 20 plus yards of push slice that can get really bad.

Btw, how wide are your fairways?

#DeadCenter

What's pretty standard by me is 25-40 yards. I checked a few of the courses I usually play on Google Earth.

By closed stance I've got my back foot about 1/2" to 1" back relative to a target line from the front of my front foot.  Not nearly as closed as recommended from Hogan's Five Fundamentals.  It encourages an inside out swing path relative to the target.

At the practice range and on the course, I hit it straighter more often with that stance.

Cool. Can't really say much more without having looked at your swing. It just seemed from your initial post that you were set up fairly closed and pulling them into the fairway, but I may have misunderstood  you.

Maybe you would, but I'm not. Although we should qualify the slice with 5-10 yards. It still takes an accurate approach shot then a decent short game.

The other factor is distance, we didn't really factor that.

A 5-10 yard fade/draw is an accurate shot. Greens are typically 20-30 yards wide, so if you aim for the center of the green, the ball would still be on the green.

[Lihu]

I didn't presume that at all, but it was a very generic statement, so by definition isn't necessarily accurate :-) #DeadCenter ;-) What's pretty standard by me is 25-40 yards. I checked a few of the courses I usually play on Google Earth. Cool. Can't really say much more without having looked at your swing. It just seemed from your initial post that you were set up fairly closed and pulling them into the fairway, but I may have misunderstood  you. A 5-10 yard fade/draw is an accurate shot. Greens are typically 20-30 yards wide, so if you aim for the center of the green, the ball would still be on the green.

Wow, 40 yards is really wide! That's why I usually hit fairways, but it's a pronounced fade. I even saw it on the simulator when I was getting a fitting, but was told it was 'okay'. The steel shafted driver goes straighter and sometimes draws.

[billchao]

Wow, 40 yards is really wide!

It's not 40 yards all the way, just some spots on some fairways. That's pretty much the widest it ever gets. Same applies on the narrow end.

The rough around here isn't too penal, so I don't make a big deal out of fairway width. Mostly just tree line to tree line, plus a 5 yard buffer zone. Gives me a lot of room to work with and I still hit it into the woods.

The steel shafted driver goes straighter and sometimes draws.

Is that like a weighting thing? Maybe your graphite shaft is too light?

[Lihu]

It's not 40 yards all the way, just some spots on some fairways. That's pretty much the widest it ever gets. Same applies on the narrow end. The rough around here isn't too penal, so I don't make a big deal out of fairway width. Mostly just tree line to tree line, plus a 5 yard buffer zone. Gives me a lot of room to work with and I still hit it into the woods. Is that like a weighting thing? Maybe your graphite shaft is too light?

Iit's probably just a swing issue, because before my injury I hit it pretty well. My hand is healing so I'm starting just starting to get more "aggressive" with my swing again, and I might try the Cobra driver again. Will have to try to keep the hands light and not too tight this time. If your landing zone is 40 yards, that's huge. We have bunkers at 220-250 yards lined up lengthwise along the fairway if they're that wide. Or OB/water hugging one side and a bunker on the other side. You would need to carry 260 to guarantee that you're safe.

[No Mulligans]

One can be a high handicapper and hit it pretty straight most of the time - when they connect.  There is still hitting it fat, thin, topping it, taking a couple of shots out of the rough, taking a couple of shots out of bunkers, three putting, only hitting a driver 200 yards etc.  Plenty of opportunities to add strokes out there.

Hitting a driver at a 210 par three and missing straight by a few percent can put one in a greenside bunker on in the rough just off a narrow fairway.  I'd still consider that pretty straight.

[Lihu]

One can be a high handicapper and hit it pretty straight most of the time - when they connect.  There is still hitting it fat, thin, topping it, taking a couple of shots out of the rough, taking a couple of shots out of bunkers, three putting, only hitting a driver 200 yards etc.  Plenty of opportunities to add strokes out there.

Hitting a driver at a 210 par three and missing straight by a few percent can put one in a greenside bunker on in the rough just off a narrow fairway.  I'd still consider that pretty straight.

Quite true, it really doesn't take much to add strokes. They add up pretty quickly.

To be a low single digit, you pretty much need a bulletproof 230-250 yard carry, and the ability to hit within +/-10 yards from inside 150 yards. Then you can start talking about the short game. Another skill is to be able to hit some iron 200 yards so you can make up for the bad stuff that happens to an off center drive, you kind of need to give yourself a chance for an up and down from less than 40 or 50 yards. Or if you get into a fairway bunker you can make the green from where you extract yourself in 1 stroke.

Basically, you need a chance at a par no matter what you did on your tee shot.

I'm probably going to take off a month from my daily playing to get my swing back while recovering from my injury. I still feel bad that I bought the pass then injured myself a week into it, but I did learn to play from a new perspective.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billchao

It's not 40 yards all the way, just some spots on some fairways. That's pretty much the widest it ever gets. Same applies on the narrow end.

The rough around here isn't too penal, so I don't make a big deal out of fairway width. Mostly just tree line to tree line, plus a 5 yard buffer zone. Gives me a lot of room to work with and I still hit it into the woods.

Is that like a weighting thing? Maybe your graphite shaft is too light?

Iit's probably just a swing issue, because before my injury I hit it pretty well.

My hand is healing so I'm starting just starting to get more "aggressive" with my swing again, and I might try the Cobra driver again. Will have to try to keep the hands light and not too tight this time.

If your landing zone is 40 yards, that's huge. We have bunkers at 220-250 yards lined up lengthwise along the fairway if they're that wide. Or OB/water hugging one side and a bunker on the other side. You would need to carry 260 to guarantee that you're safe.

FYI, average recommended fairway width for PGA tour event is 25 - 30 yards.    I don't know what course you play but most public course fairway width will have wider berth than 25 - 30 yards on average.   That means, if you are a PGA tour player with 5 yard dispersion on your tee shot, you will be hitting 100% of fairways.

[Lihu]

FYI, average recommended fairway width for PGA tour event is 25 - 30 yards.    I don't know what course you play but most public course fairway width will have wider berth than 25 - 30 yards on average.   That means, if you are a PGA tour player with 5 yard dispersion on your tee shot, you will be hitting 100% of fairways.

I should probably measure the fairways, but one of the tracks I play daily is a "tournament" course. Being a public course, maybe they can't afford to mow all the way to the trees.

There are lots of bunkers in strategic locations. The course does not have many natural obstacles, but I've been playing those "harder" courses. Recently, I found no real difference in difficulty once I stopped topping tee shots a year ago.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

FYI, average recommended fairway width for PGA tour event is 25 - 30 yards.    I don't know what course you play but most public course fairway width will have wider berth than 25 - 30 yards on average.   That means, if you are a PGA tour player with 5 yard dispersion on your tee shot, you will be hitting 100% of fairways.

I should probably measure the fairways, but one of the tracks I play daily is a "tournament" course. Being a public course, maybe they can't afford to mow all the way to the trees.

When you measure it, be sure to use right equipment .

Tragic but funny story ....

Twice already my range finder was accidentally set to meters instead of yards.   So, for several months in both instances, on every shot that I used the range finder, I was about 10 - 15 yards shorter.   Of course, I blamed my slump, aging, muscle loss, and all kind of other things.   Thanks to my wife who checked the range finder, now I find my good shots are going the right distance.   I think this + removing 3/4 irons in my bag are the reasons why my HI went from 22 to 19 in the last 45 days.

[Lihu]

When you measure it, be sure to use right equipment .

Tragic but funny story ....

Twice already my range finder was accidentally set to meters instead of yards.   So, for several months in both instances, on every shot that I used the range finder, I was about 10 - 15 yards shorter.   Of course, I blamed my slump, aging, muscle loss, and all kind of other things.   Thanks to my wife who checked the range finder, now I find my good shots are going the right distance.   I think this + removing 3/4 irons in my bag are the reasons why my HI went from 22 to 19 in the last 45 days.

Look them up if you are interested:

My daily track:

https://www.americangolf.com/public-courses/los-angeles/brookside-golf-club

I usually guesstimate them, but the shorter track is notorious for being really narrow. Many people find the 6000 yard track harder than the 7104 yard track, because it is so narrow and has those elevated island greens.

My weekly tracks:

http://parks.lacounty.gov/wps/portal/dpr/ThingsToDo/Golf/Altadena_Golf_Course

http://parks.lacounty.gov/wps/portal/dpr/ThingsToDo/Golf/Eaton_Canyon_Golf_Course

I see "Myswing Evolution" (http://www.youtube.com/user/myswingevolution) play here sometimes, and passed by him at Brookside earlier this month.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4AnBv6dBnU

My monthly tracks:

https://www.americangolf.com/public-courses/los-angeles/san-dimas-canyon-golf-course

Gets narrow sometimes, but for the most part is just plain hard if you slice or hook.

http://www.losserranoscountryclub.com/

Again hard if you slice or hook, played the white tees.

http://www.golf.lacity.org/cdp_wilson.htm

http://www.golf.lacity.org/cdp_harding.htm

My sometimes tracks:

http://www.hiddenvalleygolf.com/

Only played this one three times.

http://www.tukwetcanyon.com/

Played in one of the outings and another time later on with my son.