Reshafting wedge--what shaft?

[atomheartmother]

I recently bought a used (but near mint) Mizuno S5 (50 degree). It apparently has a mystery shaft. There is no sticker on it. The seller had originally said it was a TT DG S300. It's clearly not as it has a satin/brushed finish and is smooth. I've since inquired and he said he got it from a friend. Long story short, I guess I'll just reshaft it. 

But what shaft? I play regular flex in all of my other clubs. I tend to play this wedge loft as full or 3/4 shots and occasionally chips on longer ones. 

Should I reshaft this in regular with a heavier weight like DG R300 (iron shafts are 85g)? Or should I do S200 or S300? Those seem to be the standard of wedges. 

[jamo]

Most wedges you buy say "Wedge Flex," which is usually S200 or S300. That's what I'd do. 

I'm curious what the satin one is though. Maybe a KBS C-Taper?

[atomheartmother]

I initially thought a C-Taper, but I can't be sure. Not 100% of the flex either. Doing the old bend with my hands test, I suppose it feels similar to the S200 in my Vokey. Not sure how to assess the accuracy of my test. 

 

If I for sure knew what shaft it was and the accurate flex, I'd probably just keep it for now. 

[WUTiger]

7 hours ago, atomheartmother said:

Should I reshaft this in regular with a heavier weight like DG R300 (iron shafts are 85g)? Or should I do S200 or S300? Those seem to be the standard of wedges. 

It depends on what feels best for you. I got to talk to the Vokey wedge marketing director back in 2016, and asked him about shafts for wedges. He said Bob Vokey recommends having the same shafts in your wedges as your irons, and soft-stepping at least the SW and LW so you get a lighter touch around the greens.

If you go with a little heavier shaft, I would suggest the DG SL (superlight) R300. This comes in at about 104 grams.

In an earlier bag set-up, I had Callaway X20 Tours w/ ProjectX 5.0 shafts (115 grams), and CG14 wedges with S300 120-gram "wedge-flex" shafts.

When I reshafted the X20 Tours with NS Pro 8950 R.flex (97 grams), the following season I had trouble with partial wedge shots. On full wedges I did OK, but was having problems with partials - either leaving them short or airmailing them.

So, I reshafted the CG14s with KBS Tour R.flex (110 grams), and regained control on partial wedges.

Supposed lesson from all this: The weight difference between 97 gram R.flex iron shafts and 120-gram S.flex wedge shafts was just too much. By closing the gap on weight and flex, i regained control of partial wedges. 

[mvmac]

7 hours ago, atomheartmother said:

Should I reshaft this in regular with a heavier weight like DG R300 (iron shafts are 85g)? Or should I do S200 or S300? Those seem to be the standard of wedges. 

I generally go with this way of thinking

 

7 hours ago, jamo said:

I'm curious what the satin one is though. Maybe a KBS C-Taper?

Probably is.

[atomheartmother]

1 hour ago, WUTiger said:

It depends on what feels best for you. I got to talk to the Vokey wedge marketing director back in 2016, and asked him about shafts for wedges. He said Bob Vokey recommends having the same shafts in your wedges as your irons, and soft-stepping at least the SW and LW so you get a lighter touch around the greens.

If you go with a little heavier shaft, I would suggest the DG SL (superlight) R300. This comes in at about 104 grams.

In an earlier bag set-up, I had Callaway X20 Tours w/ ProjectX 5.0 shafts (115 grams), and CG14 wedges with S300 120-gram "wedge-flex" shafts.

When I reshafted the X20 Tours with NS Pro 8950 R.flex (97 grams), the following season I had trouble with partial wedge shots. On full wedges I did OK, but was having problems with partials - either leaving them short or airmailing them.

So, I reshafted the CG14s with KBS Tour R.flex (110 grams), and regained control on partial wedges.

Supposed lesson from all this: The weight difference between 97 gram R.flex iron shafts and 120-gram S.flex wedge shafts was just too much. By closing the gap on weight and flex, i regained control of partial wedges. 

This was my thought as well. Any way of telling if there'd be much of a difference in swing weight between DG vs DG SL (both R300 and same grip)?

[Typhoon92]

I have Nippon Modus 105 shafts in my irons.  My fitter took the KBS 125 grams wedge shafts out of my PM Grind Callaway wedges and replaced them with the Nippon Modus 105 wedge shafts.

I love them.  There was too much weight difference and now it is seamless.  I hit a lot of full or near full shots with wedges and I noticed a distance loss with the heavier shafts.  Now all is good, feel is great, distance is back.  Definitely a smart move.

[atomheartmother]

So, if my irons have 85g shafts (TM proprietary shafts in the Speedblades), which shaft for the wedge? Would the XP95 or 105 be a good fit for a wedge?

Edited July 30, 2017 by atomheartmother

[WUTiger]

15 hours ago, atomheartmother said:

Any way of telling if there'd be much of a difference in swing weight between DG vs DG SL (both R300 and same grip)?

Yes, change in shaft weight would influence swingweight.

DG R300 = 127 grams / DG SL R300 = 104 grams... SL weighs 23 grams less.

• For every 9 gram decrease in shaft weight, your swingweight goes down 1 point. So, you would have swingweight about 2.5 points lower.
• You could recapture the swingweight if the clubsmith tip-weighted the shafts with 5 grams. (+2 gram increase in headweight increases swingweight 1 point.)
• You could also recapture the swingweight if you went with a grip that was 12 grams lighter than your current one. (minus-5 gram change in grip weight increases swingweight +1 point)

7 hours ago, Typhoon92 said:

My fitter took the KBS 125 grams wedge shafts out of my PM Grind Callaway wedges and replaced them with the Nippon Modus 105 wedge shafts.

I love them.  There was too much weight difference and now it is seamless.

Typhoon had the same weight diffential problem which I had mentioned earlier in this thread.

[WUTiger]

5 hours ago, atomheartmother said:

So, if my irons have 85g shafts (TM proprietary shafts in the Speedblades), which shaft for the wedge? Would the XP95 or 105 be a good fit for a wedge?

First of all, the XP shafts are a replacement for the Dynalite shafts, which for years were the high-launch cousin of the Dynamic Golds.

The XP95 R300 weighs 93 grams in taper tip and 98 grams in parallel tip. 

To get closer to 85 grams, consider the NS Pro Zelos 8, a new shaft from Nippon. The Z-8 R-flex weighs 84 grams in both taper and parallel tips. (It is a high-launch shaft).

[atomheartmother]

4 hours ago, WUTiger said:

Yes, change in shaft weight would influence swingweight.

DG R300 = 127 grams / DG SL R300 = 104 grams... SL weighs 23 grams less.

• For every 9 gram decrease in shaft weight, your swingweight goes down 1 point. So, you would have swingweight about 2.5 points lower.
• You could recapture the swingweight if the clubsmith tip-weighted the shafts with 5 grams. (+2 gram increase in headweight increases swingweight 1 point.)
• You could also recapture the swingweight if you went with a grip that was 12 grams lighter than your current one. (minus-5 gram change in grip weight increases swingweight +1 point)

Typhoon had the same weight diffential problem which I had mentioned earlier in this thread.

Is there anyway to estimate what the swingweight might be with the SL shaft? With a stiff Wedge Flex shaft (DG S200) and a MC+4 grip, the stock swing weight is D4. What would it be with the SL regular shaft (with a Tour Velvet grip if they matters)?

[WUTiger]

Calculations below are estimates. The clubsmith can give a more precise reading by weighing components on a swingweight machine.

1 hour ago, atomheartmother said:

Is there anyway to estimate what the swingweight might be with the SL shaft? With a stiff Wedge Flex shaft (DG S200) and a MC+4 grip, the stock swing weight is D4. What would it be with the SL regular shaft (with a Tour Velvet grip if they matters)?

5 hours ago, WUTiger said:

DG R300 = 127 grams / DG SL R300 = 104 grams... SL weighs 23 grams less.

• For every 9 gram decrease in shaft weight, your swingweight goes down 1 point. So, you would have swingweight about 2.5 points lower.

 D4 - 2.5 Swingweights = D1.5 with DG SL.

(MC grip only weight = 0.5 grams more than TourVs - so, no difference)

Note: The DG SL weighs 23 grams less than regular Dynamic Gold, BUT the DG SL weighs 19 grams more than your stock iron shafts. So, you would still be facing a weight differential even with DG SL. ... Reconsider the Zelos 8 shaft...

Edited July 31, 2017 by WUTiger
Added advisory to weigh components.

[atomheartmother]

44 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

Calculations below are estimates. The clubsmith can give a more precise reading by weighing components on a swingweight machine.

 D4 - 2.5 Swingweights = D1.5 with DG SL.

(MC grip only weight = 0.5 grams more than TourVs - so, no difference)

Note: The DG SL weighs 23 grams less than regular Dynamic Gold, BUT the DG SL weighs 19 grams more than your stock iron shafts. So, you would still be facing a weight differential even with DG SL. ... Reconsider the Zelos 8 shaft...

Is it that simple? The irons are rated at a swing weight of 2.5 despite having lighter shafts. How is that? The grips are the same on both clubs. So, will swinging the wedge feel lighter versus the irons despite having heavier shafts and presumably a heavier head?

[WUTiger]

1 hour ago, atomheartmother said:

The irons are rated at a swing weight of 2.5 despite having lighter shafts. How is that?

If you go to a shaft (DG SL) that is 23 grams lighter than stock wedge shaft, the swingweight will decrease from D4 to D1.5. You could recapture the D4 swingweight by either tip-weighting shaft, or going with a lighter grip.

Or, you could leave the swingweight at D1.5 - that is the stock swingweight for your Speedblade irons.

A clubsmith can help you do the specific calculations for whatever shaft/grip combo you end up with.

If you like the Speedblade irons, any chance you could swap out the Miz S5 for a Speedblade AW? Just a thought, a lot less hassle than reshafting Mizuno wedge to fit with TMs.

[atomheartmother]

7 hours ago, WUTiger said:

If you go to a shaft (DG SL) that is 23 grams lighter than stock wedge shaft, the swingweight will decrease from D4 to D1.5. You could recapture the D4 swingweight by either tip-weighting shaft, or going with a lighter grip.

Or, you could leave the swingweight at D1.5 - that is the stock swingweight for your Speedblade irons.

A clubsmith can help you do the specific calculations for whatever shaft/grip combo you end up with.

If you like the Speedblade irons, any chance you could swap out the Miz S5 for a Speedblade AW? Just a thought, a lot less hassle than reshafting Mizuno wedge to fit with TMs.

Thanks. 

Stock swingweight for the Speedblade irons is 2.5 according to the spec sheet, which I've found odd considering the super light shafts. Will swinging the Mizuno feel lighter than the Speedblades with the SL shaft. I'd like to avoid this. If anything, I'd prefer it to feel the same or a tad heavier.

So given this info, wouldn't those Zelos shafts you mentioned make the Mizuno like a D0 weight if they're 20 grams lighter than even the SL?

[WUTiger]

If you went with the Zelos shaft, you could recapture swingweight by using either a TM Burner Superfast replacement grip (25 grams), or a Golf Pride Tour 25 (also 25 grams). NOTE: both are pricey, about $10 each. (1 SwWt point for 5 grams = +5 SwWt points)
Lightening the grip increases the swingweight - it's a balance thing.

Also: DG S300 = 127 grams / Zelos 8 = 84 grams. So... Z8 would be 43 grams lighter, or about 5 swingweight points lighter.

So... {Zelos = - 5} + {Light grips = +5} = Zero... the shaft change and the grip change cancel each other out. So reshaft/regrip, and go win the club championship!

Edited July 31, 2017 by WUTiger
Clarification on grip weight dynamics.

[Typhoon92]

U might want to have a fitter do this for u.  It's a lot of weight change etc...  I had my fitter do mine so he could properly weight everything...he's a professional, for me to do it right , forget it!  Plus the time involved...

[WUTiger]

18 minutes ago, Typhoon92 said:

U might want to have a fitter do this for u. It's a lot of weight change etc

Definitely!