Thinking of swapping irons

[inthecup]

I currently play Callaway Apex CF16 irons.  What I have noticed through Arccos is that the bulk of my misses on approach shots are short.  On the courses I play on being above the hole is a bad thing so I do try and stay below the hole which adds to this miss.   I have easy access to a launch monitor and a thing to note on the Apex irons for me is that they are low spinning.  I am seeing low spin numbers on a monitor so perfect lie, dry club and ball, no grass between the club and the ball.  On the course the numbers are probably lower.  Typical 7 iron spin is 4200 rpm.  The manufacturers do this for a reason, it boosts distance.  My fear is that if the spin drops too much you lose distance.  I don't have a problem sticking on greens I hit a high ball and the greens I play on tend to be soft.

This got me thinking (which is usually not a good thing) that the lack of spin could be hurting my distance control.  I had a discussion with my fitter and he sent me a Ping I200 7 iron to try.  It was very interesting.  With the Ping I lose 8 yards but pick up some spin (1,000 rpm) but the consistency and accuracy seemed to go up quite a bit in all categories.  The fitter is really good.  The test club was set to the same swing weight with the same shaft.  The Ping felt really good on centered strikes, really good.

I just don't know if I am chasing shadows here.  I think there is something to the spin theory.  The alternate course of action is to pull more club on every approach.  That flies in the face of logic because I pull clubs based on Arccos distances.  Does anyone have any experience with this scenario?  

[Lihu]

15 minutes ago, inthecup said:

I currently play Callaway Apex CF16 irons.  What I have noticed through Arccos is that the bulk of my misses on approach shots are short.  On the courses I play on being above the hole is a bad thing so I do try and stay below the hole which adds to this miss.   I have easy access to a launch monitor and a thing to note on the Apex irons for me is that they are low spinning.  I am seeing low spin numbers on a monitor so perfect lie, dry club and ball, no grass between the club and the ball.  On the course the numbers are probably lower.  Typical 7 iron spin is 4200 rpm.  The manufacturers do this for a reason, it boosts distance.  My fear is that if the spin drops too much you lose distance.  I don't have a problem sticking on greens I hit a high ball and the greens I play on tend to be soft.

This got me thinking (which is usually not a good thing) that the lack of spin could be hurting my distance control.  I had a discussion with my fitter and he sent me a Ping I200 7 iron to try.  It was very interesting.  With the Ping I lose 8 yards but pick up some spin (1,000 rpm) but the consistency and accuracy seemed to go up quite a bit in all categories.  The fitter is really good.  The test club was set to the same swing weight with the same shaft.  The Ping felt really good on centered strikes, really good.

I just don't know if I am chasing shadows here.  I think there is something to the spin theory.  The alternate course of action is to pull more club on every approach.  That flies in the face of logic because I pull clubs based on Arccos distances.  Does anyone have any experience with this scenario?  

Not 100% sure on this but 7i with 4200 rpm sounds too low. The higher spinning 7i (guessing 5200) rpm is still low, but at least reasonable.

If an irons spins too low, it usually goes farther and not shorter. The extra spin and height is helping you stop on a green better at the cost of "distance". For example, if you hit your 7i 180 yards with 4200 rpm of spin and an apex of 20 yards, that's not as good as hitting it 165 yards with more than 6000rpm and an apex of 30 yards.

[inthecup]

Just now, Lihu said:

Not 100% sure on this but 7i with 4200 rpm sounds too low. The higher spinning 7i (guessing 5200) rpm is still low, but at least reasonable.

If an irons spins too low, it usually goes farther and not shorter. The extra spin and height is helping you stop on a green better at the cost of "distance". For example, if you hit your 7i 180 yards with 4200 rpm of spin and an apex of 20 yards, that's not as good as hitting it 165 yards with more than 6000rpm and an apex of 30 yards.

Lower spin helps to a point.  If it drops too low the ball falls from the sky.

The clubs that help with distance which is most game improvement clubs are  all generate lower spin.  They also have a low center of gravity to increase launch and height.   The peak height of both clubs was around 33 yards. 

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, inthecup said:

Lower spin helps to a point.  If it drops too low the ball falls from the sky.

The clubs that help with distance which is most game improvement clubs are  all generate lower spin.  They also have a low center of gravity to increase launch and height.   The peak height of both clubs was around 33 yards. 

Not sure then, I'm basically going by what I was told is optimal for my 7i (Ping i20).

[Lihu]

Just dug this up at Callaway. . .

https://community.callawaygolf.com/t5/The-Fitting-Corner/CF-16-spin-rate-hold-greens-launch-angle-spin-rate/td-p/8132

[Typhoon92]

Cool article Lihu!  Inthecup u are correct that you need spinbto keep the ball in the air or it just drops out of the sky.  I ran into that at a driver fitting.  My 1700-1900 rpm of spin did me no favors.  My launch angle was fine...all other numbers were fine.  I just needed the right shaft to give me more spin.  It increased both my carry distance and overall distance.  I was amazed.  I now realize people chase low spin like it's the holy grail and its hurting a lot of them.

U might need a more flexible shaft, which is what I went to but it has to do with my smooth transition as well.

You said u have a good fitter so you're on the right track....and your assumption is correct as well.  I read for a spin rule of thumb it's the club number x 1000...so a 7 iron would be 7000 rpm, 8 iron 8000 rpm etc...

[inthecup]

I am blessed with the resources to take a chance on new clubs.  I ordered up the Ping I200 5-PW with the same shafts as my Apex irons.  They will be set up by my fitter who is one of the best so it will be an interesting test to see if they achieve my goal.  In the testing I have done the dispersion was much better and the distance was shorter.  I am not the longest player but at this point accuracy is more important to me.  I will have the whole winter to hit balls into a net on a monitor and make some judgement about consistency and accuracy.  I also have a Mid December trip down south to play so I will get some on course experience to go with the monitor data.

I was really making progress last year.  I am playing off a solid 12 index and I think I can go lower.  I am hoping to visit single digits, never been there before.

What could possibly go wrong!  

[Typhoon92]

The Apex non pro and the Ping i200 are different classes of irons too.  Apex is more of a distance iron and the I200 is more of a non-hard core  player's type iron.

They will play differently for you.  The Apex is more like the G series Pings.

With your handicap you should love the I200!

[saevel25]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 1:43 PM, inthecup said:

The manufacturers do this for a reason, it boosts distance.  My fear is that if the spin drops too much you lose distance

Depends on the iron. If they supplement this with higher launch you will see longer distance.

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 1:43 PM, inthecup said:

This got me thinking (which is usually not a good thing) that the lack of spin could be hurting my distance control.  I had a discussion with my fitter and he sent me a Ping I200 7 iron to try.  It was very interesting.  With the Ping I lose 8 yards but pick up some spin (1,000 rpm) but the consistency and accuracy seemed to go up quite a bit in all categories

The Ping clubs might be weaker loft as well. I wouldn't compare your irons number to number. Typically you want to make sure you are getting good yardage gaps between your irons. Specifically at the top end.

I prefer to play the least amount of game improvement I am comfortable with.